Dateline Florida: Guns Win Again

[vegas giants]

It's working right here. Millions of potential gun buyers are screened every year and over a hundred thousand are denied. IF the database were more accurate that number would increase.

Our gun death rates are a national tragedy and it is insulting to the families of the dead to suggest that

 

[tonyanzack]

England and most of Europe, were thought to have effective gun control. That is no longer true, as evidenced by the gun usage of local criminals and terrorists. No sane man or woman should be left defenseless. The issue should not be gun control, but people control.
The high school shooter in Florida, was allowed to carry out his evil acts. He was a troubled kid from childhood and five entities failed him and all who came into contact with him.
The parents, all the social workers he interacted with, the school, the FBI and on that fateful day, the Broward County Sheriff's Office. Who do the media, David Hogg and his group, and others, blame? Why the NRA and gun owners everywhere.
Why is it, that whenever a mass shooting occurs, do certain groups want to blame the people, who didn't do it?

 

[vegas giants]

England and most of Europe, were thought to have effective gun control. That is no longer true, as evidenced by the gun usage of local criminals and terrorists. No sane man or woman should be left defenseless. The issue should not be gun control, but people control.
The high school shooter in Florida, was allowed to carry out his evil acts. He was a troubled kid from childhood and five entities failed him and all who came into contact with him.
The parents, all the social workers he interacted with, the school, the FBI and on that fateful day, the Broward County Sheriff's Office. Who do the media, David Hogg and his group, and others, blame? Why the NRA and gun owners everywhere.
Why is it, that whenever a mass shooting occurs, do certain groups want to blame the people, who didn't do it?

My God I wish we had the gun death rates of Europe

 

[tonyanzack]

God I wish we had the French gun death rates.


There is NO country on earth with lax gun laws and low gun deaths. That is a stone cold fact

So, you would rather have us all defenseless? I see no logic in that.

 

[vegas giants]

So, you would rather have us all defenseless? I see no logic in that.

You can have guns and gun control. Most countries do

 

[tonyanzack]

Already have them. We need better enforcement of those, and better procedures to ensure the database of prohibited persons is maintained.

Correct.

That plan does not work anywhere on earth

Sure it does, but nothing is foolproof.

It's working right here. Millions of potential gun buyers are screened every year and over a hundred thousand are denied. IF the database were more accurate that number would increase.

Yes it would, but human error still keeps messing things up.

Our gun death rates are a national tragedy and it is insulting to the families of the dead to suggest that

Our gun death rates have been steadily dropping over the last several years, that was pointed out in my above post. Gun deaths take a back seat to the opiod epidemic. I suggest you harp on that, instead.
The gun hating media always cover the bad actions with guns, in minute detail, and all the thousands of good people and good actions with guns(lives saved, perps shot, armed robberies and rapes, foiled) hardly ever get mentioned.
For all the evil people committing crimes with guns, there are thousands more good people per year stopping crime. The mere presence of a gun, by a good guy, can stop crime or bad actions, in there tracks, and do. Most, if not all, school shootings, could have been thwarted by an armed citizen.
There was ample opportunity at Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech, for example, but no one had a gun and the bad actors acted with impunity and all was done, long before the police arrived.

 

[vegas giants]

Correct.



Sure it does, but nothing is foolproof.



Yes it would, but human error still keeps messing things up.



Our gun death rates have been steadily dropping over the last several years, that was pointed out in my above post. Gun deaths take a back seat to the opiod epidemic. I suggest you harp on that, instead.

You can do more than one thing at a time. Our gun death rates are horrific. We need gun control

 

[tonyanzack]

You can have guns and gun control. Most countries do

Gun control is already in place here to some extent, but it often leads to overreach by government. Our Bill of Rights is all about Rights, every one of them, and the authors of that knew full well what an overreaching government could do. We have too many gun laws on the books already. What we need is for those in authority to monitor the bad guys better, at every level. The ball was dropped on Nick Cruz, five different ways as outlined above. It's a people problem, not a gun problem!

 

[vegas giants]

Gun control is already in place here to some extent, but it often leads to overreach by government. Our Bill of Rights is all about Rights, every one of them, and the authors of that knew full well what an overreaching government could do. We have too many gun laws on the books already. What we need is for those in authority to monitor the bad guys better, at every level. The ball was dropped on Nick Cruz, five different ways as outlined above. It's a people problem, not a gun problem!

That plan does not work anywhere on earth

 

[tonyanzack]

The majority of blame for Sandy Hook, rests with Adam Lanza's mother. The kid wasn't right in the head and he should never have been introduced to, or had access to any guns.
The same is true for the parents of Kip Kinkle. The kid had mental problems, so they bought him a .22 rifle to go shoot birds, squirrels, or other targets. He killed both parents with that rifle and then went to shoot up his school.
This lack of parental control is repeated countless times every day, all over America.
The rest of the blame for these actions is on the schools, for not providing armed staff of some sort.

 

[vegas giants]

The majority of blame for Sandy Hook, rests with Adam Lanza's mother. The kid wasn't right in the head and he should never have been introduced to, or had access to any guns.
The same is true for the parents of Kip Kinkle. The kid had mental problems, so they bought him a .22 rifle to go shoot birds, squirrels, or other targets. He killed both parents with that rifle and then went to shoot up his school.
This lack of parental control is repeated countless times every day, all over America.
The rest of the blame for these actions is on the schools, for not providing armed staff of some sort.

Without effective gun control this will never end

 

[tonyanzack]

That plan does not work anywhere on earth

And the U.S. is not like all the others! We are unique in many ways, and anywhere else on earth, is not us.
I can't imagine you lobbying for pressure cooker control, if most of these attacks were done with a multitude of well placed, pressure cooker bombs.
England has had so many knife attackers in the last 2-3 years, they are banning sale and possession of many types of knives. Again, it's not a knife problem, it's a people problem.

 

[tonyanzack]

Without effective gun control this will never end

You have it backwards. More guns in the hands of good guys, less crime committed.

Gun control is not the answer.

 

[vegas giants]

And the U.S. is not like all the others! We are unique in many ways, and anywhere else on earth, is not us.
I can't imagine you lobbying for pressure cooker control, if most of these attacks were done with a multitude of well placed, pressure cooker bombs.
England has had so many knife attackers in the last 2-3 years, they are banning sale and possession of many types of knives. Again, it's not a knife problem, it's a people problem.

A dozen countries. All with different cultures. All with effective gun control. All with low gun deaths. Of course it would work here

 

[vegas giants]

You have it backwards. More guns in the hands of good guys, less crime committed.

Gun control is an oxymoron.

Just show me where that is true. Not the US that is for sure

 

[tonyanzack]

Without effective gun control this will never end

I'd rather have many armed good guys, then have good guys severely restricted by the stupidity of the Left.

 

[vegas giants]

I'd rather have many armed good guys, then have good guys severely restricted by the stupidity of the Left.

It's not working. Our gun death rate is a national tragedy

 

[tonyanzack]

Just show me where that is true. Not the US that is for sure

Yes, in parts of the US, where gun ownership is common and gun owner good guys are given an award, not scapegoated or arrested for doing good deeds. The more schools that have armed staff, the less violent crime will occur. Except for the mass shooting in Las Vegas, I believe that these mass shootings could be prevented, or at least minimized, by armed, trained staff. It's no harder for them to stop a bad kid with a gun, then it is for that bad kid to do his evil deeds.
Even in Las Vegas, it boiled down to a people problem, before the fact.

 

[vegas giants]

Yes, in parts of the US, where gun ownership is common and gun owner good guys are given an award, not scapegoated or arrested for doing good deeds. The more schools that have armed staff, the less violent crime will occur. Except for the mass shooting in Las Vegas, I believe that these mass shootings could be prevented, or at least minimized, by armed, trained staff. It's no harder for them to stop a bad kid with a gun, then it is for that bad kid to do his evil deeds.

Name a large city where your plan works

 

[tonyanzack]

It's not working. Our gun death rate is a national tragedy

Yes, and of course it's not working, because we don't have armed people where they need to be, due to the ideology that you support.
More guns in the hands of good guys, less crime by bad guys. It's so logical and yet educated people don't use logic, they use emotional triggers. No pun intended.

 

[vegas giants]

Yes, and of course it's not working, because we don't have armed people where they need to be, due to the ideology that you support.

Where does your plan work in any large city in the world

 

[jimbo]

The issue, a strawman which you yourself brought up, is quantity of deaths. And, only a moron would argue that if tens of thousands died each year by getting sucked out of the windows of airplanes, like they do by getting shot to death with guns, that we would not ban windows in airplanes within five ****ing minutes.

As usual, you are using your own statements to put your own foot in your own mouth. When a window blows, we do not blame the window. However, More people die in deliberate airplane crashes. We still don't blame the airplane. We blame the person who brought the airplane down. Same with autos. Far more die in auto crashes than school shootings, or even just shootings. Do we blame the auto? Nope. One would think we'd have banned cars or airplanes by this time.

 

[tonyanzack]

Where does your plan work in any large city in the world

Unfortunately, most large cities are run by Left leaning socialists and that in itself, is the first major malfunction. It could work in any large city, just like anywhere else. What needs to happen, is that logic needs to replace emotional fear. People are more afraid of guns, then of criminals and that there, is the second major malfunction.

As usual, you are using your own statements to put your own foot in your own mouth. When a window blows, we do not blame the window. However, More people die in deliberate airplane crashes. We still don't blame the airplane. We blame the person who brought the airplane down. Same with autos. Far more die in auto crashes than school shootings, or even just shootings. Do we blame the auto? Nope. One would think we'd have banned cars or airplanes by this time.

Very logical, except for those who are clueless about firearms and operate purely on emotion.

 

[vegas giants]

Unfortunately, most large cities are run by Left leaning socialists and that in itself, is the first major malfunction. It could work in any large city, just like anywhere else. What needs to happen, is that logic needs to replace emotional fear. People are more afraid of guns, then of criminals and that there is the second major malfunction.



Very logical, except for those who are clueless about firearms and operate purely on emotion.

But it does not work in any large city on the planet. Those are the facts

 

[tonyanzack]

But it does not work in any large city on the planet. Those are the facts

But, it very well could if simple logic were to be applied. I stated above, why that isn't happening. That is also the reason why I avoid large cities, too many diversity chroniclers, that are hypocrites.