- Joined
- Feb 4, 2013
- Messages
- 28,659
- Reaction score
- 18,803
- Location
- Charleston, South Carolina
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
I have been to your part of the country and I have lived in cities of that size. All I can tell you is "it's all relative." I am sure you have been to many places less gender progressive than Charleston in the US, but you don't live in the same world I do by any stretch, and women don't have the same view of themselves by any stretch, and places that size are the perfect size for all the worst things in dating (Minneapolis is the same in that particular regard). Your "progressive" is my "1950's," and I would sooner commit myself to being a cat lady than try to date anyone in Charleston. I just wouldn't get along. Dressing like a hipster is easy, but thinking totally outside your culture is a completely different thing. So we just need to accept that we have different standards of what counts as enlightened gender dynamics, when discussing this.
And what's hard about this is that you're using "choice" to describe women who you said are literally being grabbed and simply failing to put up a fight. I'll tell you something: all of us, no matter how progressive, have that experience. 'K? It's not because we were ok with what was happening. It was because we were kind of intimidated and decided it was easier to go with it. Every woman has that experience.
Here's the difference between where you're coming from, and where I'm coming from: Where I come from, women find their voices as they age in order to stop situations like that -- usually by their early 20's. Where you're coming from, they don't. Ever.
I never said someone with Ryan's view may not pull regularly, especially in the kind of environment you're in. What I said is that in order to do that, they have to understand how their personality can get in their way so that they can put on a good enough front when they're trying to get laid. The reason I don't believe Ryan or Grimm is because neither display the self-awareness to accomplish that.
If they want to go after the women with less money and lower ranking jobs, then why don't they do that very often? I mean, they're around. I'll tell you why they don't, and it's yet another thing you don't understand about the culture I'm talking about: they want a woman who likes her career as much as they do. It's something they consider important in terms of having things to talk about and sharing common ground. They don't see what they'd have in common with a woman who doesn't care about the thing she spends 40 hours a week doing, or wants to just stay home all day eventually. To them, that's not someone they could have fulfilling conversation with.
And finally, I wouldn't use the word "tactics" to describe the demographic I'm talking about. Some people in this milieu of society do use tactics, but I really don't think that's it. I would use the word "hang-up."
I really think they just don't know how to express that they like someone -- either men or women. In a way, sex is an easier way to get intimacy needs met: they can just wind up falling into it without a conversation or having to ask for what they want. I've been on the listening and observing end of plenty of guys who hooked up with someone they wanted to date, but just never managed to make the words come out of their mouth. And women too -- this one goes both ways.
I mean, keep in mind, even in this very cosmopolitan world, 90-odd percent of men say on surveys that their goal is to find a nice woman and/or have a kid or two. My experiences generally support that. And yet, at the same time, some of them are well into their 30's and still haven't managed it.
You're right that a lot of women are confused about what they want. I think a lot of men are too. Why? Well, man, what a cluster...
Our concept of what it means to be partnered has something to do with it. It struggles from a pretty bad image problem, largely inspired by your part of society.
Our concept of what counts as intimacy (emotions do, sex doesn't) has something to do with it.
The on-going push-pull between the old strong-and-silent stereotype and the new more open man has something to do with it -- often they just open up in some areas more than others.
The affliction of the creative mind probably has something to do with it too, I think. All the world's a stage, and every new character is greener grass... in theory.
So, again... come on now, you might enjoy this.
Fair enough, I suppose. While I, admittedly, remain somewhat skeptical that the environment you're speaking of here really breaks established norms to the extent you claim, and I also think you're making some assertions here that would be rather hard to verify in any real sense, I will also freely admit that it's not something with which I have any great amount of personal experience.
In any eventuality, what, exactly, are you looking to discuss?