Crimes are no longer a disqualification for Republican candidates

[Cardinal]

You've just been making stuff up. You say there is a nationwide trend and earlier you said what the statistics show. There are no statistics and there is no nationwide trend. It's just your perception.

You should probably read the article.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

Franken was alleged to have sexually assaulted women. There were no photos of him touching any woman inappropriately.

Seriously ?

Watch news or read the forum much?

 

[Slingshot Bob]

You recall incorrectly. What he did wasn't sexual assault, and feminists in the Dem party were calling for his ouster.

Ok with you?

 

[X Factor]

Republicans catching up to what the Democrats did back in the 60's. Not much to talk about. Both parties look the other way if the candidate in question had a chance at gaining power.
But by all means ignore that and make it seem like it's just one party being hypocrites

The OP is not one to really have much interest in viewing his own side critically in any way.

 

[tres borrachos]

Roy Moore was not charged with what you claim. I'm not sure how Roy Moore losing proves your point. We can both play this game. Anthony Weiner sexted while in bed with his boy. This dude was seriously messed up. Do I try to vilify Democrats for putting him in office? No. This is what is wrong with the modern Democratic partisans.

Just curious how many whataboutisms are you going to post before actually addressing the subject of the thread? Disagree with his premise all you want, but your flailing about, mentioning the name of every single Democrat who ever did something wrong is obnoxious. I think you forgot to mention Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton while you were doing this.

 

[tres borrachos]

Yesterday's incident, in which New York Attorney General and Democrat Eric Schneiderman was found to have committed multiple abuses against women and was subsequently fired from a canon out of office in just three hours, made me remember this article.

"Grimm has uncovered a new reality in the constantly changing world of Republican politics: Criminal convictions, once seen as career-enders, are no longer disqualifying. In the era of President Trump, even time spent in prison can be turned into a positive talking point, demonstrating a candidate’s battle scars in a broader fight against what he perceives as liberal corruption.

In a startling shift from “law-and-order Republicans,” Trump has attacked some branches of law enforcement, especially those pursuing white-collar malfeasance, as his allies and former campaign officials are ensnared in various investigations.

Following his lead, Republican Senate candidates with criminal convictions in West Virginia and Arizona have cast themselves as victims of the Obama administration’s legal overreach. Another former Trump adviser who pleaded guilty to a felony has also become an in-demand surrogate, as Republicans jump at the chance to show their opposition to special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.

“Here’s a general rule of thumb: Lawmakers should not be lawbreakers,” said Susan Del Percio, a New York GOP consultant who advised Grimm in 2010 but opposes his candidacy. 'I guess it’s a different political norm we are facing today.'"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...90efaf1f1ee_story.html?utm_term=.08a9c23ce5fc

The case could be made that Trump, with multiple allegations of sexual assault against him as well as a university scam in which he bilked regular Americans out of nearly a quarter billion dollars, could be seen at first to be an outlier. However, a trend began to take shape when Montana voters happily embraced Greg Gianforte after he assaulted a liberal reporter and elected him into the House of Representatives the next day. This trend has only continued, notably with Republican support for Judge Arpaio; and Roy Moore, credibly accused of sexual relations with minors when he was a district attorney in Alabama.

So I guess the most obvious question I have for Republicans is...Hey, what's up? What's with you and your embrace of criminals lately? Seriously, let's talk about this.

So unlike the people who have taken this thread so off topic that it made it painful to read, I'll address your OP as best as I can, because I'm facing a firewall.

Michael Grimm (I assume that's who this is about) was tapped by Steve Bannon - yes, that Steve Bannon - as one of his favored candidates. Michael Grimm is a felon, and that isn't even a subject of debate, like you can say Moore or Schneiderman or whomever was alleged to have committed crimes, but were not convicted. Grimm was charged, convicted, and spent time cooling his heels in the pokey. He's a bad man, and he's supported by a bad man who happened to be the same bad man who supported the man in the Oval Office who was an alleged assaulter and who has a less than stellar record in business (think Trump University).

Both sides have their bad eggs. Some people don't care about electing ignorance or even criminals. But yes, this is troubling for the Republicans who have put themselves out there as the holier than thou, we respect the law and law enforcement blah blah blah party for as long as I've been a member.

The Republicans are as dirty as they accuse the Democrats of being.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Ok with you? View attachment 67232782

Irrelevant. Given the context we know it was in, it wasn't sexual assault.

Nice fail.

 

[gdgyva]

So unlike the people who have taken this thread so off topic that it made it painful to read, I'll address your OP as best as I can, because I'm facing a firewall.

Michael Grimm (I assume that's who this is about) was tapped by Steve Bannon - yes, that Steve Bannon - as one of his favored candidates. Michael Grimm is a felon, and that isn't even a subject of debate, like you can say Moore or Schneiderman or whomever was alleged to have committed crimes, but were not convicted. Grimm was charged, convicted, and spent time cooling his heels in the pokey. He's a bad man, and he's supported by a bad man who happened to be the same bad man who supported the man in the Oval Office who was an alleged assaulter and who has a less than stellar record in business (think Trump University).

Both sides have their bad eggs. Some people don't care about electing ignorance or even criminals. But yes, this is troubling for the Republicans who have put themselves out there as the holier than thou, we respect the law and law enforcement blah blah blah party for as long as I've been a member.

The Republicans are as dirty as they accuse the Democrats of being.

i agree that used to be us Tres

i wish it still was the case

hasnt been for decades....

we no longer have the moral hammer to hold over our opponents....now it held over us

and as far as the christian moral majority....not really concerned on that part....but i am concerned that we continue to find dirtbags for candidates in so many races....and i think it really has to do with people not wanting their lives torn asunder by the press and the opposition...so people who 40-50-60 years ago who may have ran, no longer want to because of a few issues from their younger days

they dont want to embarrass themselves or their family, and so they just throw their hands in the air and say...the hell with it....let someone else do it....very few can get through the scrutiny of todays political fights....who wants the grief.....who wants the job that badly?

not many....so we are left with bad candidates....and end up with Trump vs Hillary

 

[Risky Thicket]

Seriously ?View attachment 67232781

Watch news or read the forum much?

He was posing and pretending but not touching.

 

[jnug]

Well what does make a political candidate any longer? Just as I have commented on the long line of awful Presidents each worse than the last now for decades, are things any better with regard to candidates for public office running for the House or Senate?

The quality of candidates from both parties for all sorts of public office has been in decline for decades to the point where in 2016 we had the awful wretchedness of HRC running against the putrid idiocy of Donald. These clowns were so bad and so "familiar" to us as screaming idiots that we do not even give then the courtesy of formal address as in Mr. Trump and Ms Clinton. They did not and do not deserve it and we know it. As usual you don't have to dig that hard to understand truth. It is generally looking you right in the face.

There are in fact not enough negative and derogatory adjectives to describe those two idiots, not nearly enough. They were both and are both so bad that it requires an entire new dictionary of derogatory adjectives to describe these two boneheads.

 

[gdgyva]

Well what does make a political candidate any longer? Just as I have commented on the long line of awful Presidents each worse than the last now for decades, are things any better with regard to candidates for public office running for the House or Senate?

The quality of candidates from both parties for all sorts of public office has been in decline for decades to the point where in 2016 we had the awful wretchedness of HRC running against the putrid idiocy of Donald. These clowns were so bad and so "familiar" to us as screaming idiots that we do not even give then the courtesy of formal address as in Mr. Trump and Ms Clinton. They did not and do not deserve it and we know it. As usual you don't have to dig that hard to understand truth. It is generally looking you right in the face.

There are in fact not enough negative and derogatory adjectives to describe those two idiots, not nearly enough. They were both and are both so bad that it requires an entire new dictionary of derogatory adjectives to describe these two boneheads.

couldnt agree more

want to like this post 10x

 

[americanwoman]

Yesterday's incident, in which New York Attorney General and Democrat Eric Schneiderman was found to have committed multiple abuses against women and was subsequently fired from a canon out of office in just three hours, made me remember this article.

"Grimm has uncovered a new reality in the constantly changing world of Republican politics: Criminal convictions, once seen as career-enders, are no longer disqualifying. In the era of President Trump, even time spent in prison can be turned into a positive talking point, demonstrating a candidate’s battle scars in a broader fight against what he perceives as liberal corruption.

In a startling shift from “law-and-order Republicans,” Trump has attacked some branches of law enforcement, especially those pursuing white-collar malfeasance, as his allies and former campaign officials are ensnared in various investigations.

Following his lead, Republican Senate candidates with criminal convictions in West Virginia and Arizona have cast themselves as victims of the Obama administration’s legal overreach. Another former Trump adviser who pleaded guilty to a felony has also become an in-demand surrogate, as Republicans jump at the chance to show their opposition to special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.

“Here’s a general rule of thumb: Lawmakers should not be lawbreakers,” said Susan Del Percio, a New York GOP consultant who advised Grimm in 2010 but opposes his candidacy. 'I guess it’s a different political norm we are facing today.'"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...90efaf1f1ee_story.html?utm_term=.08a9c23ce5fc

The case could be made that Trump, with multiple allegations of sexual assault against him as well as a university scam in which he bilked regular Americans out of nearly a quarter billion dollars, could be seen at first to be an outlier. However, a trend began to take shape when Montana voters happily embraced Greg Gianforte after he assaulted a liberal reporter and elected him into the House of Representatives the next day. This trend has only continued, notably with Republican support for Judge Arpaio; and Roy Moore, credibly accused of sexual relations with minors when he was a district attorney in Alabama.

So I guess the most obvious question I have for Republicans is...Hey, what's up? What's with you and your embrace of criminals lately? Seriously, let's talk about this.

That's why I always have to laugh at any some Republicans defense of their illegal immigration stance as being simply about the fact that they are breaking laws. Like it's really about any law breaking going on because they are more than willing to look the other way at other law breakers.

 

[Cardinal]

So unlike the people who have taken this thread so off topic that it made it painful to read, I'll address your OP as best as I can, because I'm facing a firewall.

Michael Grimm (I assume that's who this is about) was tapped by Steve Bannon - yes, that Steve Bannon - as one of his favored candidates. Michael Grimm is a felon, and that isn't even a subject of debate, like you can say Moore or Schneiderman or whomever was alleged to have committed crimes, but were not convicted. Grimm was charged, convicted, and spent time cooling his heels in the pokey. He's a bad man, and he's supported by a bad man who happened to be the same bad man who supported the man in the Oval Office who was an alleged assaulter and who has a less than stellar record in business (think Trump University).

Both sides have their bad eggs. Some people don't care about electing ignorance or even criminals. But yes, this is troubling for the Republicans who have put themselves out there as the holier than thou, we respect the law and law enforcement blah blah blah party for as long as I've been a member.

The Republicans are as dirty as they accuse the Democrats of being.

Hey Tres, which browser are you using?

I didn't really have the expectation that the trump supporters here would actually address the point of the topic. I consciously participated in hijacking my own thread because I was significantly more disturbed by the dark tone I was hearing from people on my own side of the political aisle. I'm operating under the assumption that if we can take government back from Trump World things can start the path back toward some form of normality (normality as defined by anything pre-2016). However, it seems like the poison from trump and his supporters have seeped much deeper than I previously understood, based not only on this thread but on a couple occurrences in real life as well. That really disturbed me.

The opening narrative of Ready Player One (seriously underrated movie, btw) made an unsettling observation of where the US zeitgeist is heading. The narrator said (I paraphrase), "At some point nobody cared and we stopped trying to fix problems anymore..." a commentary I took to refer to how the country's focus on the culture war distracted from our crumbling infrastructure, which is the face of a civilization that has lost its energy and is in stark decay.

But if Democrats join the Republicans in whatever has made them sick, then stick a fork in us. We're done. The narrator from Ready Player One won't have just been a commentary on where we are, but a prediction of where we'll be. When the nation as a whole agrees that there is no good and nothing matters anymore, the will and the mechanisms for removing evil people from power will vanish. Right now, if you're a Republican being an objectively bad human being is no bar to being elected and no cause for being removed from office, as demonstrated by Pruitt and Carson and the dozen other examples of ongoing corruption in the White House. Once Democrats emulate them then we may as well just close up shop completely.

Yeah, this thread really bummed me out.

 

[Cardinal]

That's why I always have to laugh at any some Republicans defense of their illegal immigration stance as being simply about the fact that they are breaking laws. Like it's really about any law breaking going on because they are more than willing to look the other way at other law breakers.

Oh, you mean that "rule of law" thing? Yeah, that's a euphemism for getting rid of brown people and non-Christians. The words in their literal meaning are irrelevant.

 

[Cardinal]

Well what does make a political candidate any longer? Just as I have commented on the long line of awful Presidents each worse than the last now for decades, are things any better with regard to candidates for public office running for the House or Senate?

The quality of candidates from both parties for all sorts of public office has been in decline for decades to the point where in 2016 we had the awful wretchedness of HRC running against the putrid idiocy of Donald. These clowns were so bad and so "familiar" to us as screaming idiots that we do not even give then the courtesy of formal address as in Mr. Trump and Ms Clinton. They did not and do not deserve it and we know it. As usual you don't have to dig that hard to understand truth. It is generally looking you right in the face.

There are in fact not enough negative and derogatory adjectives to describe those two idiots, not nearly enough. They were both and are both so bad that it requires an entire new dictionary of derogatory adjectives to describe these two boneheads.

If you want a good candidate you have to be in the process of constantly demanding better. If we have bad candidates it's because we're using a lower standard for selecting our representatives than we do for selecting our hair stylists. The candidates aren't the problem; you are.

 

[jnug]

Hey Tres, which browser are you using?

I didn't really have the expectation that the trump supporters here would actually address the point of the topic. I consciously participated in hijacking my own thread because I was significantly more disturbed by the dark tone I was hearing from people on my own side of the political aisle. I'm operating under the assumption that if we can take government back from Trump World things can start the path back toward some form of normality (normality as defined by anything pre-2016). However, it seems like the poison from trump and his supporters have seeped much deeper than I previously understood, based not only on this thread but on a couple occurrences in real life as well. That really disturbed me.

The opening narrative of Ready Player One (seriously underrated movie, btw) made an unsettling observation of where the US zeitgeist is heading. The narrator said (I paraphrase), "At some point nobody cared and we stopped trying to fix problems anymore..." a commentary I took to refer to how the country's focus on the culture war distracted from our crumbling infrastructure, which is the face of a civilization that has lost its energy and is in stark decay.

But if Democrats join the Republicans in whatever has made them sick, then stick a fork in us. We're done. The narrator from Ready Player One won't have just been a commentary on where we are, but a prediction of where we'll be. When the nation as a whole agrees that there is no good and nothing matters anymore, the will and the mechanisms for removing evil people from power will vanish. Right now, if you're a Republican being an objectively bad human being is no bar to being elected and no cause for being removed from office, as demonstrated by Pruitt and Carson and the dozen other examples of ongoing corruption in the White House. Once Democrats emulate them then we may as well just close up shop completely.

Yeah, this thread really bummed me out.

There is a way back. But it won't be shepherded by any one man or woman. If we find our way back it will be because we insist on it.

We are one of the 5 institutions of this democracy. They are:
The administration: Currently a massive cluster that has been in decline for decades
The Legislature: Currently a massive cluster that has been in decline for decades AND wittingly has ceded power to the wretched administrations
The Courts: In reasonably good shape but sort of hanging on
the 4th estate: Where the only journalism of merit is print journalism currently struggling to reinvent a financial model that allows it to continue
The People: Currently partially populated by folks that have never actually seen how this is supposed to work that are frankly oblivious

So I would say we have about 50% of a chance all things considered and that if we do find our way back it will be because the people smarten up about what their country, their democracy and their government in general are supposed to represent, where we have been and where we are going.

 

[FreeWits]

Just curious how many whataboutisms are you going to post before actually addressing the subject of the thread? Disagree with his premise all you want, but your flailing about, mentioning the name of every single Democrat who ever did something wrong is obnoxious. I think you forgot to mention Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton while you were doing this.

Cardinal has been implying that Democrats are better than Republicans because some Republicans have gotten into trouble. I'm showing that both sides have candidates that have been into serious trouble, which is perfectly fair given the implication that Democrats are better than Republicans. The real question here is why do you have such a problem with the context? I've already addressed the information about Arpaio and Moore, so to say I'm not actually addressing the subject of thread is downright dishonest. When are you going to start being honest in this conversation?

 

[Cardinal]

Cardinal has been implying that Democrats are better than Republicans because some Republicans have gotten into trouble. I'm showing that both sides have candidates that have been into serious trouble, which is perfectly fair given the implication that Democrats are better than Republicans. The real question here is why do you have such a problem with the context? I've already addressed the information about Arpaio and Moore, so to say I'm not actually addressing the subject of thread is downright dishonest. When are you going to start being honest in this conversation?

Actually, I've told you what the thread is about and you keep ignoring it so you can continue to battle a straw man, but I'll say it again so you can skitter off and repeat the straw man on a new page. Bad people aren't Democrat or Republican, they're just bad people. But right now there is a specific trend that is nationwide for Republican voters having advance knowledge that their candidates are criminal and completely amoral, and they select them anyway.

Yes, there have been instances of this on the Democrat side. But as I said, this is a nationwide trend right now.

 

[trixare4kids]

This thread was intended to be directed toward Republicans, but it's served as a surprising illustration of just how demoralizing and destructive the past year has been that left-leaning voters are willing to entertain any path that allows them to achieve victory again.

It ain't worth it, people. If you follow an evil path, you're going to come out the other end an evil person. You will be what the GOP is today: a party defined exclusively by venality and the need to humiliate the other party's voters, one whose agenda and values are rendered meaningless.

 

[American]

I've been saying this for years. The Dems HAVE to stop trying to take the high road, they got to start getting just as down and dirty as the GOP. The Republicans have Trump, and Hannity and Ingram, and Limbaugh spewing hate and defending Republican politicians who are law breakers every single day.

The Dems are still playing by the old rules and pretending there's such a thing as self-responsibility in politics nowadays. Trump, Moore, Blankenship... The GOP law breakers run for office, The Dems just resign. The dirtier the Republican politicians are the more the GOP base likes them. You can't get any dirtier and un-Christian than Donald Trump, yet the Religious Right loves him. That says flat out these people will never vote Dem, so why are the Dems trying to play nice and take the high road.? **** that.

The Democrat high roads is even with an earthworm's navel.

 

[FreeWits]

Actually, I've told you what the thread is about and you keep ignoring it so you can continue to battle a straw man, but I'll say it again so you can skitter off and repeat the straw man on a new page. Bad people aren't Democrat or Republican, they're just bad people. But right now there is a specific trend that is nationwide for Republican voters having advance knowledge that their candidates are criminal and completely amoral, and they select them anyway.

Yes, there have been instances of this on the Democrat side. But as I said, this is a nationwide trend right now.

You keep saying there is a nationwide trend. There is no trend. You have made that up. Prove to me there is a trend. And the fact that you said "but" shows that you are contrasting Republicans and Democrats. You are saying there is a trend of Republicans voting this way, but not of Democrats. Right? I'm saying both sides sometimes vote for people who have been found guilty of crimes, but usually not.

You said this in a comment to me:

"Democrat voters, you'll note, were not aware of Franken's past when they voted for him. And after they learned, Franken was gone. Yes, it took a couple weeks of hand wringing, but they came to the inescapable conclusion that they did not want a sex predator representing them.

This is glaringly contrasted with Republican voters who had all the information on their candidates going into the election, and voted for them anyway."

Now you say me bringing up what Democrats have voted for is a straw man. You sir, are now actively lying. Stop lying.

 

[Cardinal]

You keep saying there is a nationwide trend. There is no trend.

You should read the article.

 

[FreeWits]

You should read the article.

I'm still waiting for you to prove your trend. Every time I ask, you refuse to answer. I wonder why that is? It's almost as if you can't prove there is a trend.

 

[Cardinal]

I'm still waiting for you to prove your trend. Every time I ask, you refuse to answer. I wonder why that is? It's almost as if you can't prove there is a trend.

Well, you could read the article, but I guess trudging through all those words is hard.

 

[FreeWits]

Well, you could read the article, but I guess trudging through all those words is hard.

I'm really getting tired of your antics. You go from lying that I'm strawmanning you to making up something you couldn't possibly know about me. I did read the article. It does not prove this trend you claim exists. I will continue to wait for you to prove this trend exists.