Crimes are no longer a disqualification for Republican candidates

[cuban smokes]

People need to vote, plain and simple. Republicans pander the the hateful, ignorant people, who don't care about their hypocrisy, questionable ethics, crimes, etc. As long as they promise to get rid of those illegal, hate on anything democrat, go after abortion, pro guns, etc they will vote for these people. THe more hate and fear they can whip up, the more motivated this base is. And not enough other people voting allows a minority of people to have the power. Then you add in those that are just greedy and just wants more and more tax breaks and since they have theirs, the hell with others, you can win elections. Add in gerrymandering, voter suppression, and smearing any democrat, you suppress or unmotivate the people that would likely vote against these tactics, and this is what you get.

So unless the midterms is a huge turnout, we are going to continue to get this, since these people can be as scummy as they want to be and still win, and be endeared to many deplorables in their base

next GOP POTUS campaign slogan = 'Come & get your HATE & FEAR' .............. MAGA ...........

 

[Anagram]

The faliure is in the people who choose not to hold their elected officials to high standards

Yes. And the response to that failure, is not to then use that failure by the people to get yourself elected, even if you really believe "Yeah, it's bad, but look how awful that other guy is. I'll still be better than him."

Even if it's true in your micro election for one term. We're all worse off in the future if that's how all viable candidates treat every election. I think we'd be better off in the long run if that candidate realized that maybe he'll still lose that one election, but he can start to be the change that we need to see.

 

[Cardinal]

I've been saying this for years. The Dems HAVE to stop trying to take the high road, they got to start getting just as down and dirty as the GOP. The Republicans have Trump, and Hannity and Ingram, and Limbaugh spewing hate and defending Republican politicians who are law breakers every single day.

The Dems are still playing by the old rules and pretending there's such a thing as self-responsibility in politics nowadays. Trump, Moore, Blankenship... The GOP law breakers run for office, The Dems just resign. The dirtier the Republican politicians are the more the GOP base likes them. You can't get any dirtier and un-Christian than Donald Trump, yet the Religious Right loves him. That says flat out these people will never vote Dem, so why are the Dems trying to play nice and take the high road.? **** that.

There is a difference between being weak and assuming the other side will play by the rules in good faith. You can fight a strong and passionate campaign while simultaneous acknowledging that the other side is acting from a bottomless well of bad faith and avoiding being a criminal yourself.

tl;dr version: you can be strong without being dirty.

But if you take as given that being dirty is the only way to win, then you hand Republicans a victory by playing into their narrative that there is no good, no truth, and nothing matters except winning.

 

[Rexedgar]

He blamed Obama and other government officials for his neglect. It will work with the voting GOP populace there.

FFS! It is West Virginia, insert your own joke here_________________________________!

 

[Winston]

I seem to remember when Al Franken sexually assaulted women, with evidence in photos, and still even the Feminists within the Democratic Party supported him. Some Democrats pleaded with him to stay in Congress. Both sides have their issues, and with hundreds of leaders in Congress, these guys of things will always pop up.

Al Franken resigned from congress and apologized for touching a boobie.

Donald Trump has been accused by tens of women, including his ex-wife of full on rape. And he denies (lies) about it without showing remorse. He makes himself into a victim by accusing the victims of abuse. It's the saddest thing I've ever seen. We know he's a habitual liar by his abysmal track record on integrity. He has an inability to tell the truth, or admit that he lied, even if confronted by an inescapable truth.

 

[Cardinal]

This thread was intended to be directed toward Republicans, but it's served as a surprising illustration of just how demoralizing and destructive the past year has been that left-leaning voters are willing to entertain any path that allows them to achieve victory again.

It ain't worth it, people. If you follow an evil path, you're going to come out the other end an evil person. You will be what the GOP is today: a party defined exclusively by venality and the need to humiliate the other party's voters, one whose agenda and values are rendered meaningless.

 

[PLizzy]

There is a difference between being weak and assuming the other side will play by the rules in good faith. You can fight a strong and passionate campaign while simultaneous acknowledging that the other side is acting from a bottomless well of bad faith and avoiding being a criminal yourself.

tl;dr version: you can be strong without being dirty.

But if you take as given that being dirty is the only way to win, then you hand Republicans a victory by playing in their narrative that there is no good, no truth, and nothing matters except winning.

I think one should always treat ones opponents in a way one would expect their opponent to treat them if the tables were turned.

Playing for keeps is not the same as playing dirty. If they are going to accuse the other side of heinous actions, spread rumors, and play to peoples worst instincts, then we should take a page from their own book.

 

[Hawkeye10]

This thread was intended to be directed toward Republicans, but it's served as a surprising illustration of just how demoralizing and destructive the past year has been that left-leaning voters are willing to entertain any path that allows them to achieve victory again.

It ain't worth it, people. If you follow an evil path, you're going to come out the other end an evil person. You will be what the GOP is today: a party defined exclusively by venality and the need to humiliate the other party's voters, one whose agenda and values are rendered meaningless.

What you need to get your head around is that when the people decide that government is corrupt the government taking a person off the streets with the law might just be spun in to a badge of honor.."These corrupt assholes really hate me, just look at what they did to me, that is how you know that I am good". With all the abuse the DA's shovel out, with as bad as the justice system clearly is, this sells.

 

[Cardinal]

I think one should always treat ones opponents in a way one would expect their opponent to treat them if the tables were turned.

Playing for keeps is not the same as playing dirty. If they are going to accuse the other side of heinous actions, spread rumors, and play to peoples worst instincts, then we should take a page from their own book.

If you follow that path then one day you too will knowingly vote for a criminal with an "acceptable" amount of pedophilia or embezzlement in their past under the assumption that at least it's better than voting for a Republican. Does the general concept of "winning" mean that much to you? What will you be "winning," exactly?

 

[Harshaw]

Democrat voters, you'll note, were not aware of Franken's past when they voted for him. And after they learned, Franken was gone. Yes, it took a couple weeks of hand wringing, but they came to the inescapable conclusion that they did not want a sex predator representing them.

This is glaringly contrasted with Republican voters who had all the information on their candidates going into the election, and voted for them anyway.

No. Franken's voters did not come to that conclusion. Nor did they call for him to resign.

Minnesota Poll results: What Minnesotans think about Al Franken's resignation - StarTribune.com

60% of Minnesotans believed he had done what he was accused of. Only 41% thought he should resign. 48% thought he shouldn't.

54% of Republicans thought he should have resigned. Only 47% of Democrats did.

You're weaving a partisan hack fairy tale.

(And interestingly, more men believed the allegations against him and thought he should resign than did women.)

 

[FreeWits]

Democrat voters, you'll note, were not aware of Franken's past when they voted for him. And after they learned, Franken was gone. Yes, it took a couple weeks of hand wringing, but they came to the inescapable conclusion that they did not want a sex predator representing them.

This is glaringly contrasted with Republican voters who had all the information on their candidates going into the election, and voted for them anyway.

That is what this thread is about: why are Republican voters making the informed decision to vote for criminals?

I think this is more how you are choosing to view things. Roy Moore lost because Republicans refused to vote for him. And if you are going to go all the way down to the Sheriff on up, you're going to find a lot of Democrats who have been elected but found guilty of wrongdoing. Joe Arpaio was only found guilty of contempt of court, not exactly the most serious of charges. He faced a maximum of 6 months in jail. This was in 2017, and the last time Arpaio won an election was 2012 (lost in 2016). You gave Democrats a big pat on the back for Al Franken, even though they continued to support him for months after it was known he was a serial sexual assaulter of women. Anthony Weiner was elected many times, and after a number of scandals, Keith Ellison actually backed his comeback election. It's quite interesting to see you talk about how Democrats get a pass for their serial sexual assaulters of women and pedophiles because they weren't reelected, but then you count Roy Moore, who lost an election to a Democrat in Alabama. The double standard is quite amazing to watch.

 

[PLizzy]

This thread was intended to be directed toward Republicans, but it's served as a surprising illustration of just how demoralizing and destructive the past year has been that left-leaning voters are willing to entertain any path that allows them to achieve victory again.

It ain't worth it, people. If you follow an evil path, you're going to come out the other end an evil person. You will be what the GOP is today: a party defined exclusively by venality and the need to humiliate the other party's voters, one whose agenda and values are rendered meaningless.

I hate to tell you this but the public is far past respecting those that play by the rules in politics. The GOP leadership is successful because they let it be known to their base that they will fight for what their voters elected them to do, by any means necessary.

Their base loves it when the GOP leadership uses social programs as bargaining chips, or when they ram partisan judges into the federal courts.

 

[cuban smokes]

This thread was intended to be directed toward Republicans, but it's served as a surprising illustration of just how demoralizing and destructive the past year has been that left-leaning voters are willing to entertain any path that allows them to achieve victory again.

It ain't worth it, people. If you follow an evil path, you're going to come out the other end an evil person. You will be what the GOP is today: a party defined exclusively by venality and the need to humiliate the other party's voters, one whose agenda and values are rendered meaningless.

but you know that is exactly what is going to happen; it's not only the GOP becoming an abomination, it's the GOP demonstrating to the Dems that they too can be just as abominable .........

politics in America is nothing but poison; we are no more than a den of vipers void of morality, worthy of being destroyed, and nothing else ........

 

[FreeWits]

I think one should always treat ones opponents in a way one would expect their opponent to treat them if the tables were turned.

Playing for keeps is not the same as playing dirty. If they are going to accuse the other side of heinous actions, spread rumors, and play to peoples worst instincts, then we should take a page from their own book.

Isn't that what Cardinal is doing here?

 

[Carleen]

I seem to remember when Al Franken sexually assaulted women, with evidence in photos, and still even the Feminists within the Democratic Party supported him. Some Democrats pleaded with him to stay in Congress. Both sides have their issues, and with hundreds of leaders in Congress, these guys of things will always pop up.

Yes, and he resigned. Roy Moore has still not conceded his loss and has hinted he may run for Governor. Blankenship should not be on the ballot at all. I think that is what Cardinal is talking about.

 

[Cardinal]

It ain't worth it, people. If you follow an evil path, you're going to come out the other end an evil person. You will be what the GOP is today: a party defined exclusively by venality and the need to humiliate the other party's voters, one whose agenda and values are rendered meaningless.

I would also like to add that if anger and hatred at the other side's voters become your sole, driving motivation instead of a vision of a better world, then you too will be used by politicians to advance themselves into office for their own profit.

There will be a Democrat Donald Trump one day, and he'll echo back at you your hatred and frustration, you'll vote for him and he'll spend the totality of office enriching himself, shamelessly shunning all ethics, will give you none of what you actually wanted and like today's Republicans you too will believe there is no good and that nothing matters. At that point everybody will agree to stop fixing things and the country will descend into irreversible decay.

But if that's the world you want, then run toward it consciously and with your eyes open.

 

[FreeWits]

Yes, and he resigned. Roy Moore has still not conceded his loss and has hinted he may run for Governor. Blankenship should not be on the ballot at all. I think that is what Cardinal is talking about.

Roy Moore lost. I don't care if he conceded. This in a heavily Republican area. The only way for a Republican to lose to a Democrat in Alabama is for Republicans to vote for the Democrat.

 

[Lutherf]

Yesterday's incident, in which New York Attorney General and Democrat Eric Schneiderman was found to have committed multiple abuses against women and was subsequently fired from a canon out of office in just three hours, made me remember this article.

"Grimm has uncovered a new reality in the constantly changing world of Republican politics: Criminal convictions, once seen as career-enders, are no longer disqualifying. In the era of President Trump, even time spent in prison can be turned into a positive talking point, demonstrating a candidate’s battle scars in a broader fight against what he perceives as liberal corruption.

In a startling shift from “law-and-order Republicans,” Trump has attacked some branches of law enforcement, especially those pursuing white-collar malfeasance, as his allies and former campaign officials are ensnared in various investigations.

Following his lead, Republican Senate candidates with criminal convictions in West Virginia and Arizona have cast themselves as victims of the Obama administration’s legal overreach. Another former Trump adviser who pleaded guilty to a felony has also become an in-demand surrogate, as Republicans jump at the chance to show their opposition to special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.

“Here’s a general rule of thumb: Lawmakers should not be lawbreakers,” said Susan Del Percio, a New York GOP consultant who advised Grimm in 2010 but opposes his candidacy. 'I guess it’s a different political norm we are facing today.'"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...90efaf1f1ee_story.html?utm_term=.08a9c23ce5fc

The case could be made that Trump, with multiple allegations of sexual assault against him as well as a university scam in which he bilked regular Americans out of nearly a quarter billion dollars, could be seen at first to be an outlier. However, a trend began to take shape when Montana voters happily embraced Greg Gianforte after he assaulted a liberal reporter and elected him into the House of Representatives the next day. This trend has only continued, notably with Republican support for Judge Arpaio; and Roy Moore, credibly accused of sexual relations with minors when he was a district attorney in Alabama.

So I guess the most obvious question I have for Republicans is...Hey, what's up? What's with you and your embrace of criminals lately? Seriously, let's talk about this.

I did time for a DUI. Should that disqualify me from running for office?

 

[Cardinal]

I did time for a DUI. Should that disqualify me from running for office?

I already know you think that isn't disqualifying. The OP makes that clear.

 

[PLizzy]

If you follow that path then one day you too will knowingly vote for a criminal with an "acceptable" amount of pedophilia or embezzlement in their past under the assumption that at least it's better than voting for a Republican. Does the general concept of "winning" mean that much to you? What will you be "winning," exactly?

I never said we should vote for a criminal, or anything along those lines.

I'm tired of the baby kissers. Lets have guys/women that are proud to support single payer health care, more corporate accountability, and civil rights, and do so with a big mouth.

No more compromise, no more rolling over. Just play hard or go home.

 

[Mr Person]

So I guess the most obvious question I have for Republicans is...Hey, what's up? What's with you and your embrace of criminals lately? Seriously, let's talk about this.

They appear to resolve the issue by taking the position that when a Republican is accused of crimes, the accusers are liars. When the Republican admits it, the question is whether they were forced to or whether a Hillary-type figure did something similar in the last fifty years. If the Republican is convicted, dirty smelly lawyers and their lies are to blame for it. Meanwhile, the entire prosecutorial apparatus is to blame because success of their case means that they are "leftists" who orchestrated a frame-up. If the Republican's appeals are denied, that's dirty smelly judicial activism.





And remember: when everything fails, a Democrat still did it first. Remember what's important here.

 

[Carleen]

Roy Moore lost. I don't care if he conceded. This in a heavily Republican area. The only way for a Republican to lose to a Democrat in Alabama is for Republicans to vote for the Democrat.

That being said Roy Moore has been charged with molesting young girls and he almost won. That’s the point here.

 

[PLizzy]

I did time for a DUI. Should that disqualify me from running for office?

No.

There's a huge difference between committing a crime and being a criminal with no regard for law. We've all screwed-up, and we've all broken the law in our lives.

 

[Cardinal]

I never said we should vote for a criminal, or anything along those lines.

I'm tired of the baby kissers. Lets have guys/women that are proud to support single payer health care, more corporate accountability, and civil rights, and do so with a big mouth.

No more compromise, no more rolling over. Just play hard or go home.

I never suggested anybody should roll over. You can acknowledge that the other side is operating from a bottomless well of bad faith without taking a swim in that well, that's all. There have been numerous special election wins for Democrats who ran clean, positive campaigns that pushed policy-orientated messages.

There is some seriously dark mojo out there right now, worse than I ever imagined, but a lot of people want a breath of fresh air as well.

 

[Mr Person]

I did time for a DUI. Should that disqualify me from running for office?

Well, you raised it, so I'm hoping the response means I'm in bounds....



Time implies something like a 2nd-4th offense, depending on how forgiving the jurisdiction is. I'd certainly want to be able to evaluate whether you cleaned up over a sustainable period if you ran. That particular offense points to something that may or may not exist beyond mere disregard for the law.

That said, Churchill wouldn't be repeatedly electable these days. But there was a time when England very much benefited from him regardless of personal issues. It all depends.




The overall thrust of the OP is valid and concerns me. We see Dems resigning, whether under pressure or not, when these kind of accusations come to light. Especially when it's multiple accusations.

The GOP instead has rallied around anyone accused, playing stupid games to defend defend defend, while simultaneously not defending Democrats. Where were the cries from the GOP of "Innocent until proven guilty!" for Franken? For that other guy who wasn't convicted but had a mistrial (Menendez?). Etc. Moore was defended by most of his supporters. Not enough, but a whole bunch. Trump was and is defended.

It's like the GOP said en masse "well, we can't even pretend to take the moral high ground at the moment, so the moral high ground can get ****ed".




Troubling.