Courts hammer Trump for sabotaging Obamacare, in rulings that could cost the Treasury billions

[Idiometer]

As long as that single payer is you and not me, I'm fine with it.

Do you have a job? If so, you are already paying for it.

 

[Idiometer]

Yes, and all that's quite irrelevant to the fact that the plan was birthed by the loony, radical right and Trump is essentially human filth.

Human? Are you sure?

:2funny:

 

[jimbo]

Do you have a job? If so, you are already paying for it.

Retired. Self employed. Paid maximum for decades. Wrote the check. I'm fully aware I paid for it.

 

[Idiometer]

Not sure anyone working for a large corporation or the government (state,city,federal) would trade their insurance for medicare.

Why not?

I've been on Medicare for two years now. I also buy a supplement, because I can afford one, and I need it due to pre-existing conditions. I can go to any doctor or hospital I choose. I have no co-payments and no deductibles. Last year, aside from prescriptions, my total healthcare bill came to about $3,300, and that included arthroscopic knee surgery, two other out-patient procedures and some high tech diagnostics.

I think you have some outdated ideas about Medicare.

 

[Greenbeard]

I'll never forgive the Democrats for caving on that original "public option" back in 2009 when they held all of the gavels. Wankers!

Given that most insurers in the marketplace underpriced their products for the first few years, a public option wouldn’t have done much to impact premiums. And based on the experience of the co-ops it’s far from certain a public option would’ve survived direct financial sabotage by the Congressional GOP. The idea has some merits going forward but with hindsight we know it would’ve have changed much of what’s occurred to date.

 

[Idiometer]

Medicaid almost entirely uses private insurers at this point, and about a third of Medicare does.

Huh?

I'm on Medicare. What private insurers do you mean? I buy a supplement. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[Idiometer]

Try not to break you neck blaming the Heritage Foundation. They have zero legislative power. This was TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY THE FAULT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND BARACK OBAMA.

There's another user, named Grokmaster, who also feels he must "shout" in order to make a point. Which usually means a weak point, else why the need to shout?

 

[Idiometer]

I wouldn't. half the doctors and specialist and hospitals around here don't take medicaid and more are reducing medicare coverage.
I have great coverage and it is less expensive than the cost of government **** care.

See comment 104.

 

[Greenbeard]

Huh?

I'm on Medicare. What private insurers do you mean? I buy a supplement. Is that what you're talking about?

No, I’m talking about Medicaid managed care programs and Medicare Advantage. The government (and sometimes the enrollee) pays the premium and private insurers bear the risk for Medicaid or Medicare beneficiaries. Medicaid is heavily dominated by managed care at this point and something like a third of Medicare beneficiaries choose MA. Medicare and Medicaid aren’t the opposite of private insurer involvement, those lines of business are sometimes the most successful and lucrative for private insurers.

 

[Parrish]

Try not to break you neck blaming the Heritage Foundation. They have zero legislative power. This was TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY THE FAULT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND BARACK OBAMA.

But the Federalist Society is well on its way to totally exerting judicial power over the courts.

 

[Idiometer]

You are saying that what I am not doing is not true??? It is getting boring having people calling facts lies because it does not fit their partisan B.S. For example what is the cost of Medicare plus the supplemental versus the town paid for insurance?

See comment 104.

For Medicare, they deduct $134 per month from my Social Security check. I pay an additional $149 per month for my supplement. That's $3,396 per year. No deductible, no copays, and I see any doctor I want. Does your corporate sponsored coverage beat that?

 

[Idiometer]

that is more than 3x what i pay now.
so why would i want to pay for more expensive insurance.
worse coverage and less doctors?

why people hate their health i don't know.

i like my health which is why i avoid government crap care.

What "government crap care" do you mean?

 

[Idiometer]

Would you explain how the other countries pay for the universal health care? imo, most Americans do not want higher taxes. You can only get so much from cooperate taxes and taxing the "rich" more.

If you have a job, you are already paying a Medicare tax. If that doubled, or more, wouldn't it still be less than what most working Americans currently pay for coverage?

Here's what it costs in other developed countries:

Health care in Denmark – The Denver Post

Health Care Around the World: Norway – Healthcare Economist

Sweden : International Health Care System Profiles

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

How much does the ‘average’ Canadian pay in a year for public health care? | National Post

No judgments here, just information. We Americans currently pay more for healthcare than any other developed nation. Single payer systems aren't perfect, but they are far better than the ACA, and far, far better than what we had before the ACA.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_myths_singlepayer_facts.php

 

[Idiometer]

Employers subsidize employee insurance as most don't fund entirely but the real question is what happens to private insurance should you get your wish of Medicare for ALL? where is the incentive for private businesses to even offer insurance?

There isn't, and there shouldn't be. Medical insurance should never have become a perk of employment in the first place.

If (a HUGE if) we were to have a Medicare for All system, corporate America could use the enormous amount of money they currently pay for those plans to offer better salaries for employees. Not holding my breath for that, but sooner or later, they will need to do that if they want the best workers.

As for private insurers, Medicare only covers 80% of your costs, so most of us buy supplements from private insurers. Their "footprint" would be greatly reduced, and some of the worst of them may go out of business.

 

[jaeger19]

Why not?

I've been on Medicare for two years now. I also buy a supplement, because I can afford one, and I need it due to pre-existing conditions. I can go to any doctor or hospital I choose. I have no co-payments and no deductibles. Last year, aside from prescriptions, my total healthcare bill came to about $3,300, and that included arthroscopic knee surgery, two other out-patient procedures and some high tech diagnostics.

I think you have some outdated ideas about Medicare.

But here is a thing. Your medicare is awesome.. no doubt.. And it only works because you paid in your whole working life.. and only NOW are getting use of it. now.. what do you think happens when you add millions of americans.. who will be taking out. without having paid in for decades?

Medicare is awesome.. and its also way way way more than almost any other single payer in the world. So that's in large part how other countries get such savings. they provide so much less.

Medicare is already having some hiccups financially... and they are already discussing reducing benefits.. increasing the age etc.. to make the program feasible.

Now. you take that system and slam millions of americans that are taking out of the program.. without putting money into it over a working lifetime? What do you think happens to your medicare? I guarantee you it won't be as good as what you have now.

 

[jaeger19]

There isn't, and there shouldn't be. Medical insurance should never have become a perk of employment in the first place.

If (a HUGE if) we were to have a Medicare for All system, corporate America could use the enormous amount of money they currently pay for those plans to offer better salaries for employees. Not holding my breath for that, but sooner or later, they will need to do that if they want the best workers.

As for private insurers, Medicare only covers 80% of your costs, so most of us buy supplements from private insurers. Their "footprint" would be greatly reduced, and some of the worst of them may go out of business.

Actually no.. you medicare is being administered by private insurance companies.
In fact medicare is one of the private insurance companies biggest money makers.

 

[Idiometer]

Typical conservatives.. They got theirs through their employer, so to hell with everyone else. The days of compassionate conservatism is long gone.

Anyway my mother is 90, she pays about $250 a month for her supplemental. Which pays for about everything. she pays $5 here and there for prescriptions, etc.

If anyone thinks a 90 year old could get totally private insurance for $200-$300 a month is crazy.

Does she pay that just for the supplement, or is that her monthly total, Medicare plus the supplement? My monthly total is $283 -- $134 for Medicare and $149 for my supplement.

 

[Idiometer]

with medicare for all she will be paying 400-500 bucks a month more.

No, she wouldn't. None of the plans for Medicare for All would change what seniors already pay. The private supplements may increase, but not the cost of Medicare.

 

[jaeger19]

If you have a job, you are already paying a Medicare tax. If that doubled, or more, wouldn't it still be less than what most working Americans currently pay for coverage?

Here's what it costs in other developed countries:

Health care in Denmark – The Denver Post

Health Care Around the World: Norway – Healthcare Economist

Sweden : International Health Care System Profiles

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

How much does the ‘average’ Canadian pay in a year for public health care? | National Post

No judgments here, just information. We Americans currently pay more for healthcare than any other developed nation. Single payer systems aren't perfect, but they are far better than the ACA, and far, far better than what we had before the ACA.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_myths_singlepayer_facts.php

Well.. a few points. For one.. those countries insurance generally pays for far less than our medicare does here. In fact.. they generally provide less than our MEDICAID.. does here. So that's one reason that they spend less.

In addition.. most single payer countries pay less to their providers. Here in the US..medical providers/costs are the single biggest driver of employment in the US.. you are talking about hurting a substantial portion of our GDP.. reducing GDP by more than what the last great recession reduced GDP. The economic effects of that will be harsh.

We also pay more for other reasons.. not just that our salaries and wages are higher and ,, that we have better insurance coverage than most single payers. Its also because of things like cost shifting. For example in America.. a physician pays for his own education.. and thus that cost gets folded into what he gets paid by you.

In other countries.. the public education funds his education.. which means that the taxpayers pay.. it just doesn;t end up in medical costs.. but ends up in education cost.

 

[ludin]

No, she wouldn't. None of the plans for Medicare for All would change what seniors already pay. The private supplements may increase, but not the cost of Medicare.

the cost of medicare greatly increases.
hence the need for all these massive tax increases unless you are one of those people
that think we can just spend unlimited money and it doesn't matter.

 

[Idiometer]

You can look at most other countries tax for medicare for all it ranges from 20-40%.

CA was looking at this very thing.

it was going to cost them a 15% increase state income tax plus
higher sales tax to make up the difference not including what they
were going to charge employers which would have been passed onto workers
and consumers.

VT was looking at a 10% increase in state taxes. We can extrapolate that to be national
it would cost a person an average of 30%.

that doesn't include the supplement plan. to cover what medicare doesn't.
the average cost of a supplement plan is about 300-350.

so not only will your grandmother have to pay more tax on her investment income (provided she just doesn't live on social security)
she will have higher costs on her supplement plans as more people will be needing them.

Why ‘Medicare for all’ means deadly trouble for seniors

that is if she can find a doctor to even see her.
you people that push this crap rely on appeal to emotion arguments not logic and reason.

Bull**** on that "the average cost of a supplement plan is about 300-350" claim. The supplement I buy is what Blue Cross calls their "Mazeratti plan," and in Colorado it's a whopping $149 per month. It's their most expensive plan. Even if they double that under a Medicare for All system, it's still under $300.

 

[Idiometer]

actually it is actual fact check sites that say you are wrong.
as i stated no interest in educating yourself and you will continue to lie
go figure.

Single-Payer Myths; Single-Payer Facts | Physicians for a National Health Program

 

[jaeger19]

No, she wouldn't. None of the plans for Medicare for All would change what seniors already pay. The private supplements may increase, but not the cost of Medicare.

how is that possible when you are adding milions of Americans onto medicare that have not paid into medicare their whole working lives?

 

[ludin]

Single-Payer Myths; Single-Payer Facts | Physicians for a National Health Program

i posted 4 sites that said his claim was wrong including a person from the organization that came up with what he claimed.
so your off the wall post that has nothing to do with what i was referring to is relevant.

 

[Idiometer]

Maybe if you got our more you would see what is happening in the country although I doubt anything other than having someone else pay for all your personal responsibility issues will suffice for you

Trump clears way for health plans to compete with Obamacare

Do you have some sort of compulsion that does not allow you to debate without personal insults? Perhaps you should see a doctor about that.

:wink2: