Courts hammer Trump for sabotaging Obamacare, in rulings that could cost the Treasury billions

[Bullseye]

thank you for your biased opinion,
Just like the Republicans did with the big Trump tax cut for the rich

Not TOO ironic that you'd accuse me of bias and then spew the most bias lunacy in recent history.

At least the republicans had the opportunity to add things to and amend the ACA the Dems didn't even get to do that with the tax cut bill

we discussed that very topic yesterday. Politifact says the GOP added NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE to PPACA. you're 0 for 2 so far.

I hope the next time the Dems have complete control of the US Government like the republicans did when they passed the tax bill the Dems push something like that through and then the Republicans will have to live with it like we have to live with this tax cut for the Rich
Have a nice night

And Strike three - more slobber-slinging bias and nonsensical loony lib jabber.

 

[Idiometer]

i'll keep your opinion in file thirteen with your previous opinions.

AKA the round file?

:lamo

 

[ludin]

Bull**** on that "the average cost of a supplement plan is about 300-350" claim. The supplement I buy is what Blue Cross calls their "Mazeratti plan," and in Colorado it's a whopping $149 per month. It's their most expensive plan. Even if they double that under a Medicare for All system, it's still under $300.

that is you. other people live in different places and get different quotes.
my mother in law pays about 300 for her plan. the national average is from 250-350.

educate before getting involved in the discussion.

an additional 20-30% hike in payroll taxes will kill most working people.
then the need to pay another 200 for supplemental insurance to cover all the crap that medicare won't
will put them over the edge and is more expensive than what i pay today.

could you afford to pay another 20-30% out of your retirement income? most people can't.

also i provided you a pretty good link as to what your issue will be. yet you ignore and purposely ignore any
information that says you are wrong.

so i have to say you either don't want to educate yourself or you want to continue to be dishonest.

 

[Conservative]

I defy you to provide any position of mine that is not truly conservative. Smaller, more efficient government, fiscal responsibility etc.

I can give you a whole bunch of position you hold.. that are not conservative.

Anti national defense, anti Tax cuts, anti personal responsibility, anti states rights, want me to go on? You want to focus on FIT and not total income, you want to ignore state and local revenue, record consumer spending, record charitable contributions, the 2019 Trump budget proposal that cut spending. There is nothing conservative about you attacking the President over a budget issue that he has no control over.

trump said he would balance the budget in 8 years not one as 2018 was his first budget year and without the interest rate increases he would have reduced the deficit over the previous year or at least come close. Discretionary spending didn't cause the deficit increase, interest rate increases and entitlement spending.

 

[Idiometer]

But here is a thing. Your medicare is awesome.. no doubt.. And it only works because you paid in your whole working life.. and only NOW are getting use of it. now.. what do you think happens when you add millions of americans.. who will be taking out. without having paid in for decades?

Medicare is awesome.. and its also way way way more than almost any other single payer in the world. So that's in large part how other countries get such savings. they provide so much less.

Medicare is already having some hiccups financially... and they are already discussing reducing benefits.. increasing the age etc.. to make the program feasible.

Now. you take that system and slam millions of americans that are taking out of the program.. without putting money into it over a working lifetime? What do you think happens to your medicare? I guarantee you it won't be as good as what you have now.

I expect that the cost of my supplement will double, if not more. For seniors already on Medicare, the monthly fee for that should not go up any more than the little bit it already does most years.

If those still working, and already paying into Medicare, were suddenly paying triple that amount out of their paychecks, wouldn't that plus a supplement still be a lot less than their current costs?

 

[Conservative]

There isn't, and there shouldn't be. Medical insurance should never have become a perk of employment in the first place.

If (a HUGE if) we were to have a Medicare for All system, corporate America could use the enormous amount of money they currently pay for those plans to offer better salaries for employees. Not holding my breath for that, but sooner or later, they will need to do that if they want the best workers.

As for private insurers, Medicare only covers 80% of your costs, so most of us buy supplements from private insurers. Their "footprint" would be greatly reduced, and some of the worst of them may go out of business.

I worked for 35 years and contributed to Medicare during that period of time and when I turned 65 was forced onto Medicare where I lost my doctor who doesn't take Medicare thus I purchased a supplement to get him back. Not exactly sure what your point is but currently there aren't 330 million people on Medicare and when it is offered to all there will be as there is no incentive for private businesses to offer private insurance and that is a burden on Medicare that cannot be handled especially since it is an unfunded mandate now

Corporations offered health insurance as an enticement to get good employees. If Medicare for all is created there is no such incentive and what purpose would it be for corporations to pay higher wages when the demand for health care would overwhelm the Medicare program

 

[Idiometer]

Well.. a few points. For one.. those countries insurance generally pays for far less than our medicare does here. In fact.. they generally provide less than our MEDICAID.. does here. So that's one reason that they spend less.

In addition.. most single payer countries pay less to their providers. Here in the US..medical providers/costs are the single biggest driver of employment in the US.. you are talking about hurting a substantial portion of our GDP.. reducing GDP by more than what the last great recession reduced GDP. The economic effects of that will be harsh.

We also pay more for other reasons.. not just that our salaries and wages are higher and ,, that we have better insurance coverage than most single payers. Its also because of things like cost shifting. For example in America.. a physician pays for his own education.. and thus that cost gets folded into what he gets paid by you.

In other countries.. the public education funds his education.. which means that the taxpayers pay.. it just doesn;t end up in medical costs.. but ends up in education cost.

That first claim ... can you link to evidence of that, please?

I realize that many adjustments would be needed, not just in the costs of healthcare but in how Americans actually think of it (those who actually think at all). I still maintain that it would be a VAST improvement over anything we've had.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Does she pay that just for the supplement, or is that her monthly total, Medicare plus the supplement? My monthly total is $283 -- $134 for Medicare and $149 for my supplement.

That's just for her supplement.. But like I said, there's virtually no deductibles or deductions.. She pays almost nothing out of pocket.

 

[Idiometer]

how is that possible when you are adding milions of Americans onto medicare that have not paid into medicare their whole working lives?

How can you have a legal, legitimate job without having Medicare taxes deducted from your pay? What percentage of Americans have such jobs? I don't think you're talking about the majority of workers, or even a large minority.

 

[Idiometer]

that is you. other people live in different places and get different quotes.
my mother in law pays about 300 for her plan. the national average is from 250-350.

educate before getting involved in the discussion.

an additional 20-30% hike in payroll taxes will kill most working people.
then the need to pay another 200 for supplemental insurance to cover all the crap that medicare won't
will put them over the edge and is more expensive than what i pay today.

could you afford to pay another 20-30% out of your retirement income? most people can't.

also i provided you a pretty good link as to what your issue will be. yet you ignore and purposely ignore any
information that says you are wrong.

so i have to say you either don't want to educate yourself or you want to continue to be dishonest.

Please link to you national average claim.

 

[Idiometer]

that is you. other people live in different places and get different quotes.
my mother in law pays about 300 for her plan. the national average is from 250-350.

educate before getting involved in the discussion.

an additional 20-30% hike in payroll taxes will kill most working people.
then the need to pay another 200 for supplemental insurance to cover all the crap that medicare won't
will put them over the edge and is more expensive than what i pay today.

could you afford to pay another 20-30% out of your retirement income? most people can't.

also i provided you a pretty good link as to what your issue will be. yet you ignore and purposely ignore any
information that says you are wrong.

so i have to say you either don't want to educate yourself or you want to continue to be dishonest.

Please see comment 125.

The personal insults are un-called for.

 

[Idiometer]

That's just for her supplement.. But like I said, there's virtually no deductibles or deductions.. She pays almost nothing out of pocket.

Neither do I, except for prescriptions.

 

[ludin]

Please see comment 125.

The personal insults are un-called for.

deflection noted and there are no personal insults.

 

[Helix]

Seriously man? Really? So you can't even answer?

We have never ever ever started from square one.. because you have never been willing to even start at any square. All you have done is "single payer".. and "just like other countries".

Which encompasses a whole bunch of things. So now.. you have "medicare for all". Okay.. well at least try to be intellectually honest. What do you mean by Medicare for All? Medicare part B.. Medicare Part A.. Medicare part D?

What do you mean?

Heck.. at least get that far. Because its going to be real interesting to see if the democrats proposed "medicare for all".. is going to be what YOU think it should be.

No. I have explained my position to you countless times, and it is always a waste of my time. We have exceptionally little common ground on this topic, and we're just going to have to accept it. I will, at least.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Neither do I, except for prescriptions.

She's in NY. Prices here are a bit higher.. Anyway she has no complaints. Cost her nothing out of pocket. She's had the same doctors for years.

 

[Idiometer]

deflection noted and there are no personal insults.

Are you kidding? Virtually every comment you've osted on this thread includes a personal insult. No deflection here, just observation.

 

[ludin]

Are you kidding? Virtually every comment you've osted on this thread includes a personal insult. No deflection here, just observation.

no deflection and no personal insults as they are against the forum rules and i have no infractions for it.
so your observation is flawed.

 

[Vern]

Thank goodness they archived the Obamacare forum. Now conservatives are free to spew the same old lies as if they haven’t already been disproven.

 

[washunut]

See comment 104.

For Medicare, they deduct $134 per month from my Social Security check. I pay an additional $149 per month for my supplement. That's $3,396 per year. No deductible, no copays, and I see any doctor I want. Does your corporate sponsored coverage beat that?

You pay zero for prescriptions? Adding me to my wife's insurance costs less than the 3.4K anyway.

Again I am not saying Medicare in bad as many seem to read in my comments,just my deal is better currently.

 

[jaeger19]

Anti national defense,.

Hmmm.. you mean not wanting to be the worlds policeman? Or you mean not believing in nationbuilding. Hmmm... when did being the worlds policeman become a conservative idea?

Oh.. wait.. do you mean not trying to circumvent the constitution.. as trump is doing,, by declaring a non existent national emergency.. simply to get his way over the will of the elected congress?

anti personal responsibility

You mean because I hold trump responsible for his actions because he is president of the united states... instead of excusing his personal behavior.. because as you claim..."but but.. Obama and Hillary did it"...

You have a weird sense of personal responsibility. Apparently.. Trump can do whatever he wants and is not responsible for his actions.. because "Obama did it".

anti states rights

Hmmm.. you mean because I think states should pay their own way.. and money earned in the state should be kept in the state rather than taken from the state to be given to other welfare states?? You sir are the one that wants certain states to have to send more money to the federal government to subsidize other states.

You want to focus on FIT and not total income

Because that makes fiscal sense. If my business is growing at 10 percent a year.. and you make changes.. and instead of growing at 10% a year.. it grows at only 1$ a year... don't you think that constitutes an issue? REally are you going to tell me that your changes were a success.. because we gained one dollar over the previous year ? You sir are simply silly.

you want to ignore state and local revenue, record consumer spending, record charitable contributions

Nope.. I ignore nothing. So what.. more consumer spending. Still larger deficit:

Trump's Big "Win": The Largest Budget Deficit With A Strong Economy

Sir.. everytime you write here.. you display your ignorance

 

[jaeger19]

I expect that the cost of my supplement will double, if not more. For seniors already on Medicare, the monthly fee for that should not go up any more than the little bit it already does most years.

On what do you base that? You realize that you have just added millions of people onto the plan.. that have not paid in for the last 30 years of their working life.

If those still working, and already paying into Medicare, were suddenly paying triple that amount out of their paychecks, wouldn't that plus a supplement still be a lot less than their current costs

Well first.. lets point out that they are already paying into medicare.. BUT CANNOT TAKE OUT.. so that money is compounded over 30 years of a working life. So.. to balance that out.. now that they can take out immediately.. the fiscal issues are much more expensive. they are going to basically have to 1. pay way more than triple out of their paychecks.. and that is going to constitute a hardship on them. And no.. its not going to be a lot less than their current costs.

I don't see how you think its going to be less than there current costs. but please provide some detailed information on how its going to work. Especially when you consider all the poor people.. that now have Medicaid.. which costs them nothing.. and now you are going to start taking more money out of their checks.. for an insurance that pays LESS.

 

[mike2810]

If you have a job, you are already paying a Medicare tax. If that doubled, or more, wouldn't it still be less than what most working Americans currently pay for coverage?

Here's what it costs in other developed countries:

Health care in Denmark – The Denver Post

Health Care Around the World: Norway – Healthcare Economist

Sweden : International Health Care System Profiles

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

How much does the ‘average’ Canadian pay in a year for public health care? | National Post

No judgments here, just information. We Americans currently pay more for healthcare than any other developed nation. Single payer systems aren't perfect, but they are far better than the ACA, and far, far better than what we had before the ACA.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_myths_singlepayer_facts.php

Thanks for the info. I have seen most of what you posted.

Not sure if Americans are ready to see taxes go up to may for a single pay system.

 

[jaeger19]

That first claim ... can you link to evidence of that, please?

I realize that many adjustments would be needed, not just in the costs of healthcare but in how Americans actually think of it (those who actually think at all). I still maintain that it would be a VAST improvement over anything we've had.

Sure:

The Canada Health Act does not cover prescription drugs, home care or long-term care or dental care, which means most Canadians rely on private insurance from their employers or the government to pay for those costs. Provinces provide partial coverage for children, those living in poverty and seniors.

it also doesn't cover outpatient physical therapy or outpatient speech or occupational therapy. Health care in Canada - Canada.ca

That's just one example. If you wish more.. you can go on the health care forum where you can find multiple posts from me detailing what other countries provide in there public insurance.

France for examples.. will pay for your abdominal surgery.. but not the anesthetic for it. Which is why they have to purchase private insurance..

I still maintain that it would be a VAST improvement over anything we've had.

Based on what exactly?. I would bet that you didn;t even know that Canadian government insurance doesn;t pay for prescription meds outside the hospital, outpatient therapies, home health or durable medical goods outside the hospital.

.Our Medicaid.. pays for that. our private insurance pays for that.. in fact it was part of our essential health benefits. Our medicare pays for that. So for example going to a Canadian government insurance would be a decrease for americans that currently have health insurance.

 

[jaeger19]

How can you have a legal, legitimate job without having Medicare taxes deducted from your pay? What percentage of Americans have such jobs? I don't think you're talking about the majority of workers, or even a large minority.

Yeah..you are not getting it.

Right now.. when you get medicare when you retire.. you have paid into the system your WHOLE WORKING LIFE. So.. you have paid for years and years and years without taking out. Which is WHY.. 1. What you have taken out of your pay NOW is so little.
and 2. Why you pay so little for a medicare part B and Part D and why Part A has no cost to you when you retire.

the medicare system works largely because you have thirty years of people who have paid in their whole WORKING LIVES.. without taking out. and even then.. its in some fiscal problems.. as its spending more than its taking in.

Now.. under a medicare for all program. You are going to have millions of people who are going to be using medicare.. but HAVE NOT. just spent 35 years paying into it. That 18 year old kid is now going to be using medicare.. and yet he has only paid into it for one year.

It completely upends the fiscal reality here. Do you know understand?

So.. something has to give.. either you are going to have to drastically reduce benefits. Or dramatically.. and I mean dramatically have to increase what people are taking out of their paychecks.

 

[Conservative]

Hmmm.. you mean not wanting to be the worlds policeman? Or you mean not believing in nationbuilding. Hmmm... when did being the worlds policeman become a conservative idea?

Oh.. wait.. do you mean not trying to circumvent the constitution.. as trump is doing,, by declaring a non existent national emergency.. simply to get his way over the will of the elected congress?

You mean because I hold trump responsible for his actions because he is president of the united states... instead of excusing his personal behavior.. because as you claim..."but but.. Obama and Hillary did it"...

You have a weird sense of personal responsibility. Apparently.. Trump can do whatever he wants and is not responsible for his actions.. because "Obama did it".

Hmmm.. you mean because I think states should pay their own way.. and money earned in the state should be kept in the state rather than taken from the state to be given to other welfare states?? You sir are the one that wants certain states to have to send more money to the federal government to subsidize other states.

Because that makes fiscal sense. If my business is growing at 10 percent a year.. and you make changes.. and instead of growing at 10% a year.. it grows at only 1$ a year... don't you think that constitutes an issue? REally are you going to tell me that your changes were a success.. because we gained one dollar over the previous year ? You sir are simply silly.

Nope.. I ignore nothing. So what.. more consumer spending. Still larger deficit:

Trump's Big "Win": The Largest Budget Deficit With A Strong Economy

Sir.. everytime you write here.. you display your ignorance

You have offered nothing to support your lean as a Conservative and posting opinion pieces doesn't help your cause. Trump's biggest budget deficit is exactly what?? You think we would have this economic activity without the tax cuts? Prove it? Conservatives don't call other conservatives names and I have done nothing but support returning power to the states and cutting spending which Trump has proposed. You seem to be absolutely clueless as to what caused the deficit, how much it was, and the fact that Congress hasn't given Trump a budget so how is he responsible for the deficits?