Courts hammer Trump for sabotaging Obamacare, in rulings that could cost the Treasury billions

[Conservative]

I haven't advocated "Medicare for all," nor is that what this thread about.

I was just pointing out that you're disingenuously implying you "lost your plan" because of the ACA when in fact you just turned 65 and enrolled in Medicare.

You haven''t been paying attention because that is exactly what the let wants with ACA being the starting point. Fact that you want to ignore is states do a better job than the federal bureaucrats but because some people cannot get their state to act, which is their fault, they want the federal gov't to create the program for them. Are you disputing that fact that many of those insured under ACA were eligible for Medicaid but hadn't registered? Why is it someone else's responsibility to pay for your personal responsibility issues and why isn't Medicaid enough? Who actually pays for the uninsured, the federal or state taxpayers?

 

[Greenbeard]

You haven''t been paying attention because that is exactly what the let wants with ACA being the starting point. Fact that you want to ignore is states do a better job than the federal bureaucrats but because some people cannot get their state to act, which is their fault, they want the federal gov't to create the program for them. Are you disputing that fact that many of those insured under ACA were eligible for Medicaid but hadn't registered? Why is it someone else's responsibility to pay for your personal responsibility issues and why isn't Medicaid enough? Who actually pays for the uninsured, the federal or state taxpayers?

When we implement your master plan of moving you from Medicare (federal, bad!) over to some unnamed state program (state-level, good!), you'll find out exactly what roadblocks states like Texas used to throw up to deter enrollment before the ACA demolished those roadblocks for Medicaid. Then you'll have something new to whine about.

 

[Conservative]

When we implement your master plan of moving you from Medicare (federal, bad!) over to some unnamed state program (state-level, good!), you'll find out exactly what roadblocks states like Texas used to throw up to deter enrollment before the ACA demolished those roadblocks for Medicaid. Then you'll have something new to whine about.

Seems that personal responsibility issues are a problem for you. I learned personal responsibility a long time ago which apparently you didn't. I was forced into Medicare when I started working just like I was forced into SS, both took my personal responsibility issues away from me and others although I refused to accept SS as a sole retirement income and saved for additional retirement funding. Never had that opportunity with Medicare and could have done better with more control over my own retirement and healthcare funding. It is a shame to see so many expecting others to provide for their healthcare and before telling me to opt out of both, that ignores the hundreds of thousands of dollars contributed over a 35 year work career.

Roadblocks can always be eliminated with competition another issue you don't understand. You think that the private sector businesses are going to ignore people with more spendable income for things like retirement and healthcare?

 

[JasperL]

That's the kicker, that's the rub. You add in the 'plus a decent supplement' to be able to compare and that's not the same. The 'decent supplements' can vary widely in coverage and price. He was comparing just Medicare.

But almost everyone on existing Medicare has a supplement, and it's a key part of the program, what makes it work and very popular with seniors. You can't say, well, I don't want to include THAT part which is a core, essential part. And besides, there is no possible way a "Medicare" program with no copays, no coinsurance and no premiums can work, so you're comparing it to a ghost, a myth.

 

[holbritter]

Doubly odd now, as if you're in an employer plan with "thousands of co-workers" it's a virtual certainty that you're in a self-insured plan. Such plans by and large aren't regulated by the ACA so I don't know what connection you're even drawing at this point.



You aged into Medicare. That doesn't have anything to do with the ACA.

No I'm not. I have an HMO.

 

[jaeger19]

I'm going to bail out here because we're now talking about the feasibility of a plan that hasn't been proposed and that I don't support in theory for some of the reasons you mention.

I'll just say that the ACA, or something with a different name but with many of the core features, is about as good an option as I've seen around the world, and the GOP for purely partisan reasons has made a 10 year effort to demonize it. They can't come up with an alternative that isn't the ACA because it includes the key features they say they want. Maintains the employer provided core, relies on private insurance companies and private providers, includes a mechanism to subsidize premiums for the poor and middle class, deals with pre-existing conditions, and is fully funded with taxes and fees. The GOP just don't like the downsides but EVERY possible alternative includes them, and big ones. So they're screwed in coming up with a replacement which we all knew for years, and it's up to Democrats to deal with healthcare without the irrational opposition to ACA. If I vote just on healthcare, it won't be for someone who promises Medicare for All, because I don't think it's possible in this reality or is our best choice.

Well.. actually the real reason that they can;t get rid of the ACA is mostly likely because after 10 years of demonizing it.. when it come to repealing it.. suddenly they caught on to what the ACA actually DOES. Ooops..it has huge provisions that make Medicare stable.. from establishing payment rates for physicians, to having exceptions process for seniors that need more therapy to how hospitals get paid.. and so forth. Suddenly.. they realized that if they repealed the ACA.. it would throw the healthcare providers into complete limbo and mess us up. Fee schedules that go back to 1998 when every year they had to come up with a Doc Fix.. so physicians didn;t take a 40% decrease in reimbursement etc.

The smartest move is to work within the framework of the ACA.. but.. do the job where ACA fell short.. which is realize we don;t have regulate healthcare in this country.. we need to lower the cost of healthcare insurance in this country.. which is what most people pay.
So.. we need more competition (much of it was systematically hampered by the republicans).. we need a vibrant national and state exchanges.. we may need a public option at least at state levels and perhaps federal (though this is a huge issue because you don;t want the public option to be a dumping ground for the insurance companies to dump their most expensive people onto the taxpayer).

But the biggest move is to move healthcare insurance out from the employer.. and to the individual. And still allow the employer to help pay for the insurance. And that is through HSA's.. but.. not in the stupid way they restrict HSA now. That's solves your portability problem, helps solve coverage problem, increases competition and lowers insurance costs.

 

[jaeger19]

Not really odd. There were thousands of co-workers that took the same hit as I did.

just to point out.. there were a lot of crappy things that were happening in the insurance market BEFORE the ACA.. and a lot of things that happened after the ACA.. tended to get blamed on the ACA. Insurance companies that stated that they had to drop insurance or had to raise rates.. often didn;t have to do anysuch thing.. they simply had a convenient scape goat to blame for what they did.

Even now.. I get insurance companies that will tell me.. "oh because of Obamacare"...and I ask them.. show me exactly where it says that. And guess what.. they can;t.. because I have read it.. they just do use it as a common excuse. Their are some unintended consequences from Obamacare too...so its possible that you really did take a hit because of obamacare... but its a good bet.. that any hit you took.. is actually the fault of the insurance company and or your employer...

 

[jaeger19]

Yes, and what is the incentive for Businesses to keep those plans with Medicare for all? Where does incentive exist in the liberal world. Yes, I aged into Medicare as did approximately 40-50 million other Americans that were forced into the system through payroll taxes. What happens when you increase that number 7-8 times? Money put into the SS and Medicare trust fund has been used for decades on items other than SS and Medicare so why would you support another massive entitlement program run by the bureaucrats that created the current 22 trillion dollar debt?

So you basically just told a lie that you lost your insurance because of the ACA. That's what you made it sound like and we know you did it purposely.

 

[jaeger19]

You haven''t been paying attention because that is exactly what the let wants with ACA being the starting point. Fact that you want to ignore is states do a better job than the federal bureaucrats but because some people cannot get their state to act, which is their fault, they want the federal gov't to create the program for them. Are you disputing that fact that many of those insured under ACA were eligible for Medicaid but hadn't registered? Why is it someone else's responsibility to pay for your personal responsibility issues and why isn't Medicaid enough? Who actually pays for the uninsured, the federal or state taxpayers?

That's easy.. there is really no such thing as "federal or state taxpayers".,.. Most people pay taxes to both. Now if you are asking.. "which pays for the uninsured federal or state".. the answer is both. Probably more on a federal thing especially now when you consider that taxes from states.. that HAVE programs for their uninsured.. tend to be wealthier states.. (usually blue).. that end up sending more money to the federal government that gets paid to red states to help with their uninsured population.

I think its hilarious that you think texas can create a program for you in your state that's like Medicare. Dude.. right now you can travel anywhere in the US and your medicare covers you. Try that with a state program.

But of course the truth is not your strong point now is it?

 

[jaeger19]

No I'm not. I have an HMO.

Just to point out.. that hmo can be self insured as Greenbeard suggested.

Self-Funded HMOs on the Rise | Managed Care magazine.

 

[jaeger19]

But almost everyone on existing Medicare has a supplement, and it's a key part of the program, what makes it work and very popular with seniors. You can't say, well, I don't want to include THAT part which is a core, essential part. And besides, there is no possible way a "Medicare" program with no copays, no coinsurance and no premiums can work, so you're comparing it to a ghost, a myth.

Well.. that's a little misnomer there .. abut 14% of Medicare enrollees don;t have a supplement.. and roughly another 15% get their "supplement".. form Medicaid.

A Primer on Medicare – What types of supplemental insurance do beneficiaries have? – Sec 8 – 7615-04 | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

 

[Conservative]

So you basically just told a lie that you lost your insurance because of the ACA. That's what you made it sound like and we know you did it purposely.

I had to buy a supplement after being promised that investing in Medicare would allow me to have insurance and keep my doctor after retirement, that was a lie just like liberalism that you support

 

[Conservative]

That's easy.. there is really no such thing as "federal or state taxpayers".,.. Most people pay taxes to both. Now if you are asking.. "which pays for the uninsured federal or state".. the answer is both. Probably more on a federal thing especially now when you consider that taxes from states.. that HAVE programs for their uninsured.. tend to be wealthier states.. (usually blue).. that end up sending more money to the federal government that gets paid to red states to help with their uninsured population.

I think its hilarious that you think texas can create a program for you in your state that's like Medicare. Dude.. right now you can travel anywhere in the US and your medicare covers you. Try that with a state program.

But of course the truth is not your strong point now is it?

Not only do I think it I see it but you are too blinded by the belief in big federal gov't providing for personal responsibility issues and safety nets. My community has created those kind of programs but it is waste of time dealing with you on this issue as you never offer solutions just whine about programs you may lose and want to keep

 

[holbritter]

Just to point out.. that hmo can be self insured as Greenbeard suggested.

Self-Funded HMOs on the Rise | Managed Care magazine.

I get that. I'm saying mine is not.

 

[jaeger19]

I had to buy a supplement after being promised that investing in Medicare would allow me to have insurance and keep my doctor after retirement, that was a lie just like liberalism that you support

BWWWAAAHHHH... you are so full of BS. first.. imagine what it would cost you to go buy primary insurance in your 70's or 80's... think about that for a second.. think about that for more than a second. IF you could even get such insurance.

Second..."I couldn't keep my doctor"... okay.. what a load of horsecrap. You mean... that for the decades that you KNEW that you were going onto medicare.. you never.. ever.. thought to ask your doctor... "hey doc.. do you take medicare.. because you know.. eventually I am going to go on medicare"?

By the way you ridiculous dude.. Medicare isn;t just supported by "liberals"... its greatly supported by republicans. in fact.. the single largest increase in medicare.. Medicare part D.. came under George Bush junior.

So stop spouting lies.

 

[jaeger19]

Not only do I think it I see it but you are too blinded by the belief in big federal gov't providing for personal responsibility issues and safety nets. My community has created those kind of programs but it is waste of time dealing with you on this issue as you never offer solutions just whine about programs you may lose and want to keep

BS. . You just keep making it worse. Okay.. here is your chance... please put forth the program that your state has that is just like Medicare.. fully funded only by Texas citizens.

 

[Conservative]

BWWWAAAHHHH... you are so full of BS. first.. imagine what it would cost you to go buy primary insurance in your 70's or 80's... think about that for a second.. think about that for more than a second. IF you could even get such insurance.

Second..."I couldn't keep my doctor"... okay.. what a load of horsecrap. You mean... that for the decades that you KNEW that you were going onto medicare.. you never.. ever.. thought to ask your doctor... "hey doc.. do you take medicare.. because you know.. eventually I am going to go on medicare"?

By the way you ridiculous dude.. Medicare isn;t just supported by "liberals"... its greatly supported by republicans. in fact.. the single largest increase in medicare.. Medicare part D.. came under George Bush junior.

So stop spouting lies.

It is probably you that needs to think about costs today and what happens with Medicare for all to Private company insurance and the impact having 330 million Americans on the program. Keep showing that liberal streak in you and total ignorance of exactly what GW Bush did vs. what the Democrats wanted. This is a slippery slope with no consequences in your world if wrong. I learned to anticipate instead of react which apparently is a foreign concept to you

 

[Conservative]

BS. . You just keep making it worse. Okay.. here is your chance... please put forth the program that your state has that is just like Medicare.. fully funded only by Texas citizens.

You missed the point completely, my community has a FREE Healthcare clinic for people who don't have health insurance totally funded by charities and local tax dollars. There are solutions to local problems without a federal mandate and involvement. The federal gov't does one thing well, creates dependence and that adds to debt

 

[jaeger19]

It is probably you that needs to think about costs today and what happens with Medicare for all to Private company insurance and the impact having 330 million Americans on the program. Keep showing that liberal streak in you and total ignorance of exactly what GW Bush did vs. what the Democrats wanted. This is a slippery slope with no consequences in your world if wrong. I learned to anticipate instead of react which apparently is a foreign concept to you

Stop you BS. .. I don't support medicare for all.. and in fact.. have actually posted a detailed and logical response to why Medicare for all has issues. Then we have you.. a so called conservative.. who is nothing but.. that starts spouting lies and untruths and that detracts from the very real problems with medicare for all that I presented. ..

Here.. let me make is simple for you. I DON"T SUPPORT MEDICARE FOR ALL.

Your willingness to spout your ignorance... hurts the credibility of REAL conservatives like myself that understand the issues at hand here. You would be much better off if you would just stop typing lies and BS.. and spent some time actually reading some of the posts here from me.. and especially from Greenbeard as they actually have KNOWLEDGE of the subject.

Meanwhile.. you keep spouting off about liberal lies and what not.. without a CLUE what you are talking about.

 

[Conservative]

Stop you BS. .. I don't support medicare for all.. and in fact.. have actually posted a detailed and logical response to why Medicare for all has issues. Then we have you.. a so called conservative.. who is nothing but.. that starts spouting lies and untruths and that detracts from the very real problems with medicare for all that I presented. ..

Here.. let me make is simple for you. I DON"T SUPPORT MEDICARE FOR ALL.

Your willingness to spout your ignorance... hurts the credibility of REAL conservatives like myself that understand the issues at hand here. You would be much better off if you would just stop typing lies and BS.. and spent some time actually reading some of the posts here from me.. and especially from Greenbeard as they actually have KNOWLEDGE of the subject.

Meanwhile.. you keep spouting off about liberal lies and what not.. without a CLUE what you are talking about.

Good, then why are you after the President to change the healthcare system as conservatives understand personal responsibility issues and you don't. Actual knowledge of the subject?? I am a consumer, I dealt with healthcare issues my entire working career personally and through the employees I had. There is nothing conservative in anyone that supports changes in the healthcare system that keeps the federal bureaucrats involved and offers personal responsibility issues public assistance funded by only the people who actually pay taxes.

Presidents cannot change the healthcare system, they make proposals and Trump did that. Congress basically the Democrats rejected those proposals. healthcare costs remain the basic responsibility of the state and local citizens not the federal bureaucrats that you want to give more money to so they can continue to buy votes. What is conservative in anything you post?

 

[jaeger19]

Good, then why are you after the President to change the healthcare system as conservatives understand personal responsibility issues and you don't. ?

WTF are you talking about?

I don't want the President to do a thing about healthcare.. Because Trump is an absolute MORON. He has less understanding of most subjects.. particularly healthcare than even YOU. Which is saying something. Cripes.. now he is running rampant over the constitution like a petulant child over his useless and wasteful "wall"... what a rube.

My proposal for healthcare would be to enact that increases in competition that Obamacare started. And republicans systematically dismantled. Thats right.. inject more competition in the insurance market... but no.. you are afraid of competition. Can't have that can you MR.. "conservative"... you spent how many years lambasting Obamacare.. completely unaware that it was a market based.. competition driven solution to healthcare insurance premiums skyrocketing due to lack of competition.

You.. support insurance companies using pre existing conditions. Well.. you aren;t smart enough to realize they use them... its TO DECREASE COMPETITION. ITS TO STIFLE A FREE MARKET. pre existing conditions are in place so that people are afraid to move to another insurance when prices of their existing insurance increase or its quality decreases.

YOU are the one that doesn;t want personal responsibility.. not me.

My proposal for healthcare is to use exchanges, and more competition in the insurance market (which was again started by obamacare).. and revamped Healthcare savings plans.. so INDIVIDUALS can purchase the healthcare insurance they need. MORE personal responsibility and more competition.

Now.. it also gives a nod to the fact.. that certainly populations.. like the elderly.. cannot get private insurance on the private market. YOU for example are just too high risk. It is simply not economically feasible for a private insurance company to offer you health insurance when you have only a few years to pay for it.. and you are in your peak usage time. Its like trying to get flood insurance when the dam has broken and the water is lapping up against your porch.

The same with people with certain disabilities ,and the very poor. ..

You don't have a clue about the healthcare system or insurance.. and just spout BS.. I would suggest you spend more time reading and less time posting.

 

[Conservative]

WTF are you talking about?

I don't want the President to do a thing about healthcare.. Because Trump is an absolute MORON. He has less understanding of most subjects.. particularly healthcare than even YOU. Which is saying something. Cripes.. now he is running rampant over the constitution like a petulant child over his useless and wasteful "wall"... what a rube.

My proposal for healthcare would be to enact that increases in competition that Obamacare started. And republicans systematically dismantled. Thats right.. inject more competition in the insurance market... but no.. you are afraid of competition. Can't have that can you MR.. "conservative"... you spent how many years lambasting Obamacare.. completely unaware that it was a market based.. competition driven solution to healthcare insurance premiums skyrocketing due to lack of competition.

You.. support insurance companies using pre existing conditions. Well.. you aren;t smart enough to realize they use them... its TO DECREASE COMPETITION. ITS TO STIFLE A FREE MARKET. pre existing conditions are in place so that people are afraid to move to another insurance when prices of their existing insurance increase or its quality decreases.

YOU are the one that doesn;t want personal responsibility.. not me.

My proposal for healthcare is to use exchanges, and more competition in the insurance market (which was again started by obamacare).. and revamped Healthcare savings plans.. so INDIVIDUALS can purchase the healthcare insurance they need. MORE personal responsibility and more competition.

Now.. it also gives a nod to the fact.. that certainly populations.. like the elderly.. cannot get private insurance on the private market. YOU for example are just too high risk. It is simply not economically feasible for a private insurance company to offer you health insurance when you have only a few years to pay for it.. and you are in your peak usage time. Its like trying to get flood insurance when the dam has broken and the water is lapping up against your porch.

The same with people with certain disabilities ,and the very poor. ..

You don't have a clue about the healthcare system or insurance.. and just spout BS.. I would suggest you spend more time reading and less time posting.

Change your lead as there is nothing conservative about you. Trump proposed healthcare changes in August which of course you didn't pay any attention to because of pure hatred. The problem with liberals is there are never any consequences for poor personal choices, you don't ask for health insurance when you need it, you anticipate need and get it long before. You don't get car insurance after you have an accident, you get it before having that accident. How liberal of you never to accept consequences for poor choices

 

[jaeger19]

Change your lead as there is nothing conservative about you. Trump proposed healthcare changes in August which of course you didn't pay any attention to because of pure hatred. The problem with liberals is there are never any consequences for poor personal choices, you don't ask for health insurance when you need it, you anticipate need and get it long before. You don't get car insurance after you have an accident, you get it before having that accident. How liberal of you never to accept consequences for poor choices

there is everything conservative about me.

I ignored nothing. The majority of trumps healthcare changes have been to sabotage the ACA and decrease competition in the healthcare insurance market. You don't even know that. Because no matter what the president does.. not matter how much he flip flops.. and does things contrary to real conservatives.. you are for trump.

The problem with liberals is there are never any consequences for poor personal choices, you don't ask for health insurance when you need it, you anticipate need and get it long before.

Thats funny. Then explain why trump then wants people to be allowed to drop their healthcare coverage (by removing the mandate to have coverage).. then wants these folks to be able to get healthcare at hospitals without paying when they get sick?

Please explain that MR Consequences? God man.. you don't even know whats happening in healthcare. You need to read more and post less because you are vomiting ignorance.

 

[Conservative]

there is everything conservative about me.

I ignored nothing. The majority of trumps healthcare changes have been to sabotage the ACA and decrease competition in the healthcare insurance market. You don't even know that. Because no matter what the president does.. not matter how much he flip flops.. and does things contrary to real conservatives.. you are for trump.



Thats funny. Then explain why trump then wants people to be allowed to drop their healthcare coverage (by removing the mandate to have coverage).. then wants these folks to be able to get healthcare at hospitals without paying when they get sick?

Please explain that MR Consequences? God man.. you don't even know whats happening in healthcare. You need to read more and post less because you are vomiting ignorance.

I don't think you have any clue what it means to be a conservative. How in the hell did ACA insert competition into the healthcare industry. You had a choice, Hillary or Trump, who did you vote for?

Conservatives believe in personal choice so if someone wants to drop their healthcare what concern is it of yours? There should be consequences of poor choices but not in your world.

 

[danarhea]

The ACA was the heritage foundation version of first world healthcare. However, the Trumpist party wasn't even confident enough in its position to let it fail on its own. It was sabotaged at every step. It's time for single payer, IMO.

Ding, ding. You are correct. It was originally called Romneycare.