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"Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

I have been to all but one of those cities. Have not been to Detroit.

I have-I was there for a major sporting event. It was being held at Cobo Hall-Joe Louis arena almost 40 years ago. I had a late match and it was fourth of july so when I left the garage, the streets were packed with people going to watch fireworks. That night a dozen people were shot, several killed and dozens of assaults, stabbings and muggings. When I came up to a light-after the crowd had thinned-three twenty something men came up to my car and said nice car-we want it. I had a 45 under an athletic bag next to me. I drew it. Nice gun dude they said and split
 
I have-I was there for a major sporting event. It was being held at Cobo Hall-Joe Louis arena almost 40 years ago. I had a late match and it was fourth of july so when I left the garage, the streets were packed with people going to watch fireworks. That night a dozen people were shot, several killed and dozens of assaults, stabbings and muggings. When I came up to a light-after the crowd had thinned-three twenty something men came up to my car and said nice car-we want it. I had a 45 under an athletic bag next to me. I drew it. Nice gun dude they said and split

I have long heard of that kind of violence in Detroit. Made my hair stand up on my arms reading it.
 
"Countries With Stricter Gun Laws Have Less Murders"

its fun watching members of the bannerrhoid movement using terms like Fetish when it is the anti gun left that suffers mental illness concerning firearms ownership. Have you ever posted anything on gun threads that is NOT attempts to bait gun owners and insult them with lame insinuations ?

Have you ever backed up your statements with, yanno.... facts?


Because I can’t help but notice when I bring you the facts, you just whine about my ‘motivations’, which as we earlier discussed, and made up of whole cloth.
 
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I have-I was there for a major sporting event. It was being held at Cobo Hall-Joe Louis arena almost 40 years ago. I had a late match and it was fourth of july so when I left the garage, the streets were packed with people going to watch fireworks. That night a dozen people were shot, several killed and dozens of assaults, stabbings and muggings. When I came up to a light-after the crowd had thinned-three twenty something men came up to my car and said nice car-we want it. I had a 45 under an athletic bag next to me. I drew it. Nice gun dude they said and split

Cool story bro.

I bet you have dreams of shooting him nightly.
 
When was the last murder in your neighborhood?

Tell us if even 1, the makeup of where you live.

Anything to get off the facts presented, I guess.

Funny. I guess I just ‘proved’ some countries with stricter gun control actually have less murders.

What was this thread on again?
 
Yeah it seems to be working in canada

I found references to 4 mass shootings, in Canada, in 2019.

But it is a more rural country with less crime generally.

All the same, could Canadian gun controls work in the USA ?
I doubt it, not in the urban areas...but we could start by recognizing a problem and doing something to solve it

Right now gun owners refuse to recognize a problem exists.
 
Are you saying you find Canadian gun controls acceptable but not British gun controls ?

Canadian gun control is not what I would want but its certainly more acceptable than British gun control.
 
Canadian gun control is not what I would want but its certainly more acceptable than British gun control.

So you would accept gun control

What don't you like about British gun control laws ?


Oh we do recognize a problem exists, the problem is people who want to ban guns.

So more than one mass shooting a day (as happened in 2019) is not a problem ?
 
To some extent, certainly not to the extent of Canada.

Because Canadian mass shootings instances and gun crime is too low ?

Do you have an "acceptable" level of mass shootings in mind or was the 2019 figure acceptable to you ?


Well for one thing I don't like their ban on small firearms.


Why not ?

Is it evidence that such a ban works ?


It is a problem, restricting guns from good people is not the solution.


How can you restrict guns to "bad" people if you don't also restrict the supply to "good people"

Who is to say that a "good" person can't become a "bad" person - like Stephen Paddock did ?
 
Because Canadian mass shootings instances and gun crime is too low ?
No, because their gun laws are too restrictive.

Do you have an "acceptable" level of mass shootings in mind or was the 2019 figure acceptable to you ?
My acceptable level of mass shootings is zero, a level that the gun banning crowd would be disgusted with.

Why not ?
Because I like small firearms, firearms with less than 12 inches of barrel length and less than 24 inches of overall length, and so to lots of other people. When it comes to guns they're the basics. They're the easiest to carry and the easiest to have with you and you can move the fastest with them, although they do lack the ballistic power of larger guns making them much less likely to be deadly but they can still stop a bad guy.

Is it evidence that such a ban works ?
Nope, and if anything there is evidence that the ban had a detrimental effect. They had the ban in 1997, the murder rate in the UK rose in 1998 and stayed at that level for the next few years and then rose again in 2002.

How can you restrict guns to "bad" people if you don't also restrict the supply to "good people"
By checking to see if the person is a bad person or a good person before selling them guns, we already do that.

Who is to say that a "good" person can't become a "bad" person - like Stephen Paddock did ?
Paddock was the anomaly, he was one out of hundreds of millions of good people in the USA that own guns most of who do not become bad.
 
No, because their gun laws are too restrictive.

But are they effective ?


We had a saying in the army: "if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid"

My acceptable level of mass shootings is zero, a level that the gun banning crowd would be disgusted with.

So the current level of mass shootings is "unacceptable". I would agree with that


Because I like small firearms...

In a nutshell, that is the reason gun owners reject any gun control which might lead to them losing their gun(s)


...there is evidence that the ban had a detrimental effect. They had the ban in 1997, the murder rate in the UK rose in 1998 and stayed at that level for the next few years and then rose again in 2002.

But you don't know what the murder rate would have been like if murderers or would be murderers had access to guns
How many UK murders were prevented by private fire arms ?
You don't know

And gun bans in the UK and Australia were in response to mass shootings not the already rising crime rate.


By checking to see if the person is a bad person or a good person before selling them guns, we already do that.

It didn't work out for tephen Paddocks victime did it, Parkland, Sandy Hook, Pulse Night Club (and I could go on) all committed with legally bought and owned guns.


Paddock was the anomaly...

No he wasn't


Mass shootings in U.S. 2019: There were more mass shootings than days in 2019, according to Gun Violence Archive - CBS News
 
"Because I like small firearms..." In a nutshell, that is the reason gun owners reject any gun control which might lead to them losing their gun(s)
My full quote from post #193 was, "Because I like small firearms, firearms with less than 12 inches of barrel length and less than 24 inches of overall length, and so to lots of other people. When it comes to guns they're the basics. They're the easiest to carry and the easiest to have with you and you can move the fastest with them, although they do lack the ballistic power of larger guns making them much less likely to be deadly but they can still stop a bad guy."

The part in bold is the part you cut out. I will say it again, why are you cutting my quotes short?
 
But are they effective ?


We had a saying in the army: "if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid"
No they're not effective. Many of the guns in Canada are owned illegally.

So the current level of mass shootings is "unacceptable". I would agree with that
The gun banning crowd wants the number of mass shootings to go up, that way they would have more "ammunition" so to speak, to further their cause.

But you don't know what the murder rate would have been like if murderers or would be murderers had access to guns
They certainly had access to guns before the ban and there is no reason they wouldn't have access after the ban was enacted since they don't obey the law.

How many UK murders were prevented by private fire arms ?
You don't know
Do you?

And gun bans in the UK and Australia were in response to mass shootings not the already rising crime rate.
Newsflash, a mass shooting is a crime.

It didn't work out for tephen Paddocks victime did it, Parkland, Sandy Hook, Pulse Night Club (and I could go on) all committed with legally bought and owned guns.
Paddock, Parkland, and Pulse Club are the only three where the shooters legally obtained their guns. In Sandy Hook, Lanza did not legally obtain the guns he used he stole them from his mom.

Only you would trust a source such as GVA that supports your cause but even if they're a reliable source the fact remains the vast majority of the guns used in said mass shootings were obtained illegally.
 
My full quote from post #193 was, "Because I like small firearms, firearms with less than 12 inches of barrel length and less than 24 inches of overall length, and so to lots of other people. When it comes to guns they're the basics. They're the easiest to carry and the easiest to have with you and you can move the fastest with them, although they do lack the ballistic power of larger guns making them much less likely to be deadly but they can still stop a bad guy."

Because the part I left in was really the only pertinent part


No they're not effective. Many of the guns in Canada are owned illegally


That's not the effect, the effect is the number of mass shootings and gun deaths/injuries


The gun banning crowd wants the number of mass shootings to go up...

Sorry that's as stupid a comment as you've ever typed


You dodged the question though, is it true that you find levels of US mass shootings "unacceptable" ?



They certainly had access to guns before the ban and there is no reason they wouldn't have access after the ban was enacted since they don't obey the law.

So you don't know if the UK murder rate was rising or if the 1997 gun ban made gun deaths rise or fall




You made a positive claim
You have the burden of proof


Newsflash, a mass shooting is a crime


And there are many crimes
The UK and Australian gun bans came in as a response to mass shootings not overall crime levels
Did you not know that - did you think they were introduced to reduce overall crime rates ?



...n Sandy Hook, Lanza did not legally obtain the guns he used he stole them from his mom.


They were legally purchased and owned guns.

Proving that just because YOU might be a model citizen, that still doesn't mean your guns won't be misused


Only you would trust a source such as GVA that supports your cause but even if they're a reliable source the fact remains the vast majority of the guns used in said mass shootings were obtained illegally.

That's CBS

Here's another:

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2019 - Wikipedia


And another:


Mass Shootings in 2020 | Gun Violence Archive


And another:


US mass shootings, killings 2019: 41 mass killings marks record high


And another:

US saw highest number of mass killings on record in 2019, database reveals - BBC News
 
Because the part I left in was really the only pertinent part
No the rest of my quote was important too. I talk about why small firearms, ie handguns with barrel lengths under 12 inches and overall lengths under 24 inches should be allowed. They're a very good weapon for self defense at the home and one of the best weapons for self defense away from home, when you're on the street or otherwise out and about.

That's not the effect, the effect is the number of mass shootings and gun deaths/injuries
So the laws in Canada that prohibit mass shootings and gun deaths work well but the laws that control who can have what guns and under what conditions do not since many of the guns in Canada are owned illegally, they're just not used in mass shootings or other types of gun deaths.

Sorry that's as stupid a comment as you've ever typed
No its not, especially considering the fact that some of the mass shootings are done by leftist gun banners.

You dodged the question though, is it true that you find levels of US mass shootings "unacceptable" ?
I already answered that, as I said before the only level of mass shootings I would find in the US to be acceptable is zero, anything over that is too much.

So you don't know if the UK murder rate was rising or if the 1997 gun ban made gun deaths rise or fall
According to the data the murder rate in the UK was rising during the ban and continued to rise after the ban and in 1998 it was higher than before the ban was enacted. It stayed at that level until 2002 where it rose again and reached an all-time high. One thing is for sure, the ban did not make the murder rate fall. Im talking about overall murder rate not murders specifically done with guns. Murder is murder whether its done with a gun or something else.

You made a positive claim
You have the burden of proof
And I presented evidence as explained above.

And there are many crimes
The UK and Australian gun bans came in as a response to mass shootings not overall crime levels
Did you not know that - did you think they were introduced to reduce overall crime rates ?
Im interested in reducing murder rates overall, that includes but certainly is not limited to murders from mass shootings.

They were legally purchased and owned guns.
Adam Lanza didn't legally purchase them or legally own them.

Proving that just because YOU might be a model citizen, that still doesn't mean your guns won't be misused
I keep my guns properly secured.




Some of the links you provided talk about mass killings in general, not killings done with guns. In the second to last link of yours the first killing it talks about is a killing done with an axe not a gun. As for your links that specifically talk about mass shootings in the USA many of them happen in parts of the country that have some of the strictest gun control. States such as New York, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, California. There are very few, if any mass shootings in states such as West Virginia, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Wyoming, the Dakotas, states that are among the most gun friendly. Interestingly enough, none of the links you provided mention any mass shootings in Alaska, a state that has been pointed out on this forum as a very violent state with a high murder rate. So the evidence you present suggests that most of the murders in Alaska aren't done with guns.
 
No, Brazil is not a peer country to the USA, neither is Mexico.





But the people who did the "developing" no longer run the country.


South Africa is slipping back into the third world because of political instability, corruption and general incompetence.

For the last 20 years South Africa has had a murder rate that has sometimes been lower than it is now but most of the time its been almost as high or higher than what it is now. The murder rate there in 2018 was 35.9 per 100,000 people. In 2011 it was at an all-time low of 29.8 which is still much much higher than the murder rate in the USA. Back in 1995 it was at an all-time high at at 63.9 per 100,000 people.
 
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