Conversion Therapy Proponent Caught Trolling for Sex on a Gay "Hookup" Site

[Xelor]

Uhm how do I know they self loath, because I was one of them, and I meet them in support group's. Unless you are a gay man you really have no idea what I am talking about.

Well, props for saying so.

I know that, and a host of other very personal things, is not something I'd share in a setting such as this. It's not that I have a problem with doing so; it's that doing so in the context often seen on the Internet -- offering one's personal experiences as the sole foundation for one's claims about "whatever" -- just doesn't lend itself to being forcefully credible. In the "real world," where one's not anonymous, it's a different matter, for one's remarks place one's true reputation at risk; on the anonymous web, they don't.

I'm not given to asserting folks are lying about their experiences and being, nor do I presume folks are doing so, but that doesn't mean I'm unaware that they may be. My awareness thus means I place not a lot of stock in anecdotal assertions presented in support of claims that can be supported with other more broad-based content. To wit:

• Study: Homophobes May Be Hidden Homosexuals
• Self-loathing among gay people is nothing new. We’re overwhelmed by it
• Homophobic people have a higher chance of being gay, according to science
• Evaluation of self-esteem among homosexualsin the southern region of the state of Santa Catarina, Brazil
• The Lies and Dangers of Efforts to Change Sexual Orientation or Gender Identity
• The Weird Science of Homophobes Who Turn Out to Be Gay
• Is Homophobia Associated With Homosexual Arousal? (Short answer: yes, but read the study and see for yourself)

It's not that I think your anecdotally-driven declarations are mistaken, particularly insofar as research indicates they're not. It's that I think you can present a far stronger case by using your personal experiences to guide you to far more credible evidence indicating that you're right. Hopefully you realize my comments have to do with the quality of the argument, not the in-/accuracy of its conclusion.

 

[Xelor]

Same-sex attraction IS a disorder. The fact that the corrupt lobby group APA removed it from the DSM without a shred of actual evidence to support the removal does not change that fact.

Red:
Please don't quote my posts and say things about which you don't know what the "eff" you're talking.

• Out of DSM: Depathologizing Homosexuality
• When Gay Was Not Okay with the APA: A Historical Overview of Homosexuality and its Status as Mental Disorder
• The Evolution of the Classification of Psychiatric Disorders
• The Cycle of Classification: DSM-I Through DSM-5
• Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality

 

[TrumpTrain]

Same-sex attraction IS a disorder. The fact that the corrupt lobby group APA removed it from the DSM without a shred of actual evidence to support the removal does not change that fact.

This conversion therapy crap is a red herring. Its like talking about shock therapy to cure alcoholics.

The "cure" (not really a cure) for homosexuality is the same as the one for alcoholics: Support groups. Alcoholics who stay clean and sober admit that they have a problem and they seek support groups to stay clean and sober. Homosexuals who admit they have a problem seek support groups to remain chaste.

Oh, you never hear about those, do you. Thats because the propaganda lie that homosexuality is normal is in full hyper-indoctrination mode in schools and the media. But they exist and they do good work, and God bless those homosexuals who have rejected the mainstream lies.

.....Please don't quote my posts and say things about which you don't know what the "eff" you're talking.......

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. Apparently you do not.

The APA is not some group of wonderful doctors, its a lobbying group. It removed Same-sex attraction as a disorder from the DSM for purely political reasons. If you don't know that then you should not start threads like this.

Same-sex attraction is a disorder.

See red.

 

[Xelor]

Same-sex attraction IS a disorder. The fact that the corrupt lobby group APA removed it from the DSM without a shred of actual evidence to support the removal does not change that fact.

Red:
Please don't quote my posts and say things about which you don't know what the "eff" you're talking.

• Out of DSM: Depathologizing Homosexuality
• When Gay Was Not Okay with the APA: A Historical Overview of Homosexuality and its Status as Mental Disorder
• The Evolution of the Classification of Psychiatric Disorders
• The Cycle of Classification: DSM-I Through DSM-5
• Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. Apparently you do not.

The APA is not some group of wonderful doctors, its a lobbying group. It removed Same-sex attraction as a disorder from the DSM for purely political reasons. If you don't know that then you should not start threads like this.

Same-sex attraction is a disorder.

See red.

 

[TrumpTrain]

Brilliant response

 

[OlNate]

I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. Apparently you do not.

The APA is not some group of wonderful doctors, its a lobbying group. It removed Same-sex attraction as a disorder from the DSM for purely political reasons. If you don't know that then you should not start threads like this.

Same-sex attraction is a disorder.

See red.

It's funny, Trump Republican. At one time you would have needed to be answered, to be fought vigorously, for the sake of the rights of the 1 in 10 people who are BORN gay. Now, since those rights are assured, and most decent folk have rejected homophobia, up to and including many denominations of the church, your little minority of old school haters matter less and less and less.

In fact, the only reason that I'm responding to you at all on this one is because I've always been interested in extinct species, and have thought "it would have been nice to see the last dinosaur"...or giant sloth...or dodo. So...how does it feel to hold on to a hateful point of view, that is doomed to extinction? For me it would all feel a little pointless...like a lot of wasted energy to achieve nothing but the opposite of the desired effect. Does it bother you to see straight folks supporting, and even loving, gay folks? How does it feel to know that every time you share your pitiful point of view, it will be met with disdain, outside the circles of small and ugly folks who share it with you?

 

[TheGoverness]

It's funny, Trump Republican. At one time you would have needed to be answered, to be fought vigorously, for the sake of the rights of the 1 in 10 people who are BORN gay. Now, since those rights are assured, and most decent folk have rejected homophobia, up to and including many denominations of the church, your little minority of old school haters matter less and less and less.

In fact, the only reason that I'm responding to you at all on this one is because I've always been interested in extinct species, and have thought "it would have been nice to see the last dinosaur"...or giant sloth...or dodo. So...how does it feel to hold on to a hateful point of view, that is doomed to extinction? For me it would all feel a little pointless...like a lot of wasted energy to achieve nothing but the opposite of the desired effect. Does it bother you to see straight folks supporting, and even loving, gay folks? How does it feel to know that every time you share your pitiful point of view, it will be met with disdain, outside the circles of small and ugly folks who share it with you?

It makes me so happy that that kind of disgusting homophobia continues to die out in this country. We've made a whole lot of progress, which makes me very proud.

 

[OlNate]

It makes me so happy that that kind of disgusting homophobia continues to die out in this country. We've made a whole lot of progress, which makes me very proud.

Yup...not done, but critical mass certainly achieved, at least in North America. Here's hoping the folks holding onto that hate let go of it before they die...that's an awful, useless burden to carry all one's life.

 

[TrumpTrain]

It makes me so happy that that kind of disgusting homophobia continues to die out in this country. We've made a whole lot of progress, which makes me very proud.

Homophobia, a disgusting made up word designed to make sick people look normal and normal people look sick.

I point out the truth that homosexuals suffer from a mental disorder and that means that I have the disorder, the phobia. Anybody who uses that word is an ignorant fool.

 

[TheGoverness]

Homophobia, a disgusting made up word designed to make sick people look normal and normal people look sick.

I point out the truth that homosexuals suffer from a mental disorder and that means that I have the disorder, the phobia. Anybody who uses that word is an ignorant fool.

The ones that spew homophobic nonsense are the ignorant ones.

 

[TrumpTrain]

It's funny, Trump Republican. At one time you would have needed to be answered, to be fought vigorously, for the sake of the rights of the 1 in 10 people who are BORN gay. Now, since those rights are assured, and most decent folk have rejected homophobia, up to and including many denominations of the church, your little minority of old school haters matter less and less and less.

In fact, the only reason that I'm responding to you at all on this one is because I've always been interested in extinct species, and have thought "it would have been nice to see the last dinosaur"...or giant sloth...or dodo. So...how does it feel to hold on to a hateful point of view, that is doomed to extinction? For me it would all feel a little pointless...like a lot of wasted energy to achieve nothing but the opposite of the desired effect. Does it bother you to see straight folks supporting, and even loving, gay folks? How does it feel to know that every time you share your pitiful point of view, it will be met with disdain, outside the circles of small and ugly folks who share it with you?

Sir, I would never deny anybody their rights. I say homosexuals suffer from a mental disorder. Well, lots of people suffer from all sorts of mental disorders, but I do not advocate taking away THEIR rights, so why would I do that to homosexuals?

 

[TheGoverness]

Sir, I would never deny anybody their rights. I say homosexuals suffer from a mental disorder. Well, lots of people suffer from all sorts of mental disorders, but I do not advocate taking away THEIR rights, so why would I do that to homosexuals?

You can say it's a mental disorder all you like. You can continue to be factually incorrect all you want.

 

[TrumpTrain]

You can say it's a mental disorder all you like. You can continue to be factually incorrect all you want.

It IS a mental disorder and always has been. Do you know the history of the DSM and why it was removed from the DSM? Do you also understand natural law?

 

[TheGoverness]

It IS a mental disorder and always has been. Do you know the history of the DSM and why it was removed from the DSM? Do you also understand natural law?

I actually do understand why it was removed from the DSM. In the interest of not wasting my time with you, I will leave you with another poster's explanation.

[From CaptainCourtesy]
Homosexuality's place as a mental disorder in the field of psychology was based on several factors: prejudice, theories without research, and research that was biased or poorly produced. Many psychological theories of the time saw homosexuality as a disorder, though these theories, such as psychoanalysis had no research on which to base these assertions. Much of these assertions came from religious dogma and the prejudice of the time. Over time, as research was done, most homosexuals chosen for research were those in prisons or psychiatric institutions, both populations of which are very skewed towards mental disorders. It was no surprise that those studied were found to have significant emotional disabilities. The other main population that was studied were homosexuals that were distressed about being gay. Again, since psychological distress is a main component towards diagnosing a mental disorder, this population, too, was skewed, as other variables confounded the outcome. It wasn't until Evelyn Hooker did her study, where gays who had no comorbid emotional disorder were compared to straights, also with no comorbid emotional disorder, that a true, unbiased, controlled study was done. Her study found that there was no difference in the emotional state of gays vs. straights. Her study has been reproduced many times with identical results, an essential component towards validity. Other studies have shown the same. The way that activism came into play was that gay rights activists pushed the APA to hear and review this research. That is the extent of the activism...getting the voice heard. Once the APA reviewed the research and saw it's validity, homosexuality was declassified.

Links to help you understand:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4695779/

Homosexuality and Mental Health

 

[Xelor]

It's funny, Trump Republican. At one time you would have needed to be answered, to be fought vigorously, for the sake of the rights of the 1 in 10 people who are BORN gay. Now, since those rights are assured, and most decent folk have rejected homophobia, up to and including many denominations of the church, your little minority of old school haters matter less and less and less.

In fact, the only reason that I'm responding to you at all on this one is because I've always been interested in extinct species, and have thought "it would have been nice to see the last dinosaur"...or giant sloth...or dodo. So...how does it feel to hold on to a hateful point of view, that is doomed to extinction? For me it would all feel a little pointless...like a lot of wasted energy to achieve nothing but the opposite of the desired effect. Does it bother you to see straight folks supporting, and even loving, gay folks? How does it feel to know that every time you share your pitiful point of view, it will be met with disdain, outside the circles of small and ugly folks who share it with you?

Red/Off-Topic:
You exhibit more forbearance than I. Kudos.

Not since before my late teens have I been able to deign to dignify antediluvian gospelers of dystopian notions. That's not always abetted my aggrandisement among certain others, but overall by anyone's objective measure, it's served me well or at least had no materially deleterious impact. Of course, what works for me may or may not work for others.

"Who in the world am I?"
"Ah, that's the great puzzle."
-- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland​

 

[TrumpTrain]

I actually do understand why it was removed from the DSM. In the interest of not wasting my time with you, I will leave you with another poster's explanation.........

Present one shred of physical evidence that can justify the removal. You cannot. Its all fake parameters with made up observations, all concocted out of the blue. Its crap.

 

[Tim the plumber]

They are full self loathing, I see them all time on Grinder. They will hit on me one night, the next morning they are back to making homo jokes with their beer buddies.

I used to take pity on them. no more. Its 2018 if you dont have the gonads and self respect to come out you get no pity from me.

1, Quite right.

2, This is from me, a naturally homophobic man, but that is my problem and I deal with it, can you put your perspective on this;

I cannot imagine that anything could turn me gay. I presume that given the total failure of such conversion therapies and the like it is stupid to try to turn you straight. So why if they are either gay or straight do thye think that any such idea is possible? What is going on?

 

[TheGoverness]

Present one shred of physical evidence that can justify the removal. You cannot. Its all fake parameters with made up observations, all concocted out of the blue. Its crap.

Translation: "Waaaah! The evidence doesn't support what I want to believe, so it's crap! Waaah!"

I have already provided you with plenty enough to substantiate the removal. The fact that you don't want to accept that is irrelevant.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Homophobia, a disgusting made up word designed to make sick people look normal and normal people look sick.

I point out the truth that homosexuals suffer from a mental disorder and that means that I have the disorder, the phobia. Anybody who uses that word is an ignorant fool.

1, Quite wrong.

2, This is from me, a naturally homophobic man, but that is my problem and I deal with it, can you put your perspective on this;

I cannot imagine that anything could turn me gay. I presume that given the total failure of such conversion therapies and the like it is stupid to try to turn you into being confident of your sexual identity to the piont of not needing to define others straightness. So why if they are either gay or straight do you think that any such idea is possible? What is going on?

 

[OlNate]

Sir, I would never deny anybody their rights. I say homosexuals suffer from a mental disorder. Well, lots of people suffer from all sorts of mental disorders, but I do not advocate taking away THEIR rights, so why would I do that to homosexuals?

Well, that's a start, but there is no mental disorder here, merely a difference of opinions. Sadly the repeated pronouncement that it is a mental disorder has justified those who feel rights should be taken away or withheld in the past, or at minimum delayed bringing gay folks up to par with hetero folks. Why is it so important to you to perpetuate this falsehood? Why not simply live and let live? Seems a strange hill to die on for someone with no axe to grind...

 

[OlNate]

Red/Off-Topic:
You exhibit more forbearance than I. Kudos.

Not since before my late teens have I been able to deign to dignify antediluvian gospelers of dystopian notions. That's not always abetted my aggrandisement among certain others, but overall by anyone's objective measure, it's served me well or at least had no materially deleterious impact. Of course, what works for me may or may not work for others.

"Who in the world am I?"
"Ah, that's the great puzzle."
-- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland​

Good grief, your vocabulary kicks my vocabulary's ass.

Forbearance can be difficult, especially for the son of a gay man talking to someone who obviously has no love for gays. But when has being an asshole in return ever done any good? I choose assholery only when it is entertaining to do so. :lol:

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I still think it doesn't fit that most conversion therapists are closet homosexuals. That premise doesn't pass the common sense test.

I am sure some are in it for the money, others trying to help. But I expect today the strongest supports of conversion therapy are gay themselves and for whatever reason do not want to be so they try to convince themselves they are not, and seek to see proof by changing others from "being gay" to "being straight"

 

[Xelor]

1, Quite right.

2, This is from me, a naturally homophobic man, but that is my problem and I deal with it, can you put your perspective on this;

I cannot imagine that anything could turn me gay. I presume that given the total failure of such conversion therapies and the like it is stupid to try to turn you straight. So why if they are either gay or straight do thye think that any such idea is possible? What is going on?

Red:
That! That is exactly the sort of "common sense" that eludes sexual orientation therapists, apostles and acolytes. How and why that be eludes me.

 

[Xelor]

I am sure some are in it for the money, others trying to help. But I expect today the strongest supports of conversion therapy are gay themselves and for whatever reason do not want to be so they try to convince themselves they are not, and seek to see proof by changing others from "being gay" to "being straight"

Perhaps your right, or maybe you're not. If you are, however, such therapists' are among the most bizarre exemplars of the maxim: "they who cannot do teach." LOL

 

[SDET]

Well, that's a start, but there is no mental disorder here, merely a difference of opinions. Sadly the repeated pronouncement that it is a mental disorder has justified those who feel rights should be taken away or withheld in the past, or at minimum delayed bringing gay folks up to par with hetero folks. Why is it so important to you to perpetuate this falsehood? Why not simply live and let live? Seems a strange hill to die on for someone with no axe to grind...

When people seek to throw things away that have worked for hundreds of years, it's the height of arrogance. Society shouldn't be so quick that look down their nose at previous generations. Many things were done the way they were 50 or even 100 years ago for a reason.