Comey confirms FBI investigating Russia, Trump ties

[Cardinal]

Just highlighting how much latitude people want to give Trump on the "Obama had my wires tapped."

What made Trump's claim scandalous is his accusation that a)Obama personally ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower, and b)that any wiretap was illegal by virtue of the fact that it went around a FISA order.

As we've found out, Obama didn't personally order anything, and there was no attempt to work around FISA.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Comey: "There is currently an investigation into Russia's interference of America's elections and any involvement with the Trump Campaign."
Democrats: "How do we make this about Russia? Hmmmmm."

You didn't read the article, and now you are looking a bit on the foolish side commenting on the side discussion here as your reply clearly shows you have no idea what is being discussed.

 

[tres borrachos]

1. You fall for the anti-trump propaganda, swallow it hole, without a second thought, you might as well be.
2. which clouds your objectivity when discussing him. Makes you post stupid things like I am a trump supporter. I didn't vote for him, I wouldn't vote for him. I Like some of what he is doing, I don't like a lot of what he is doing. But I think for myself and laugh at the stupid **** people post about him because their democrat overlords tell them so.

I don't swallow holes. I also don't listen to "anti-Trump propaganda". I listen to the facts as they are being reported. The facts prove what I already assumed, which is that Trump lied about Obama ordering a "tapp" (sic). I did learn that the FBI is investigating the Russia thing by virtue of this thread being started and me looking at the news after reading the OP. That's what grown ups do.

I changed #2 to Comey.

I don't know who the "Democratic overlords" are. I'm a registered Republican and have been since June of 1980. You'll need a Democrat to help you with that.

Can you get back on topic here, which isn't me?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

lol

Yes, the right was much more consistent. They hated him when he refused to file charges against Clinton; adored him when he said there might be more to look at in Weiner's emails; and hated him again when the FBI leaked some details.

I never said that. Both sides did the same thing, that was my point.... (And she even thanked you! /facepalm)

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

What made Trump's claim scandalous is his accusation that a)Obama personally ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower, and b)that any wiretap was illegal by virtue of the fact that it went around a FISA order.

As we've found out, Obama didn't personally order anything, there was no attempt to work around FISA, and there wasn't a wiretap on Trump Tower anyway.

Yes Obama can't unilaterally order a "wiretap" and no, I don't believe there was any comment on the alleged "wiretap" of Trump Tower.
I've been watching this since it started.
They will not comment on the FISA warrants nor anything about a "possible" investigation, because it's classified information and they said they will not comment on news outlet claims, for the same reason.

 

[Visbek]

It is absolutely a red herring fallacy. They are "pointing out" that trump uses "evil russian tactic to trick american fools". As if the russians invented, and are the only ones to use "but that guy is worse".

lol

I hate to break it to you, but some of us actually keep track of what Trump says and does, and it is obvious that he is using this authoritarian / Soviet / Putin tactic. Pointing it out is not an example of propaganda.

Don't you think if I spent 5 minutes on the search here I could pull up your ilk, doing this very same thing?

You, uh, do understand you're now using technique that is being criticized, yes? :mrgreen:

The point is that when it's routinely used by a President, particularly one who tries to draw moral equivalencies between his own nation and a brutal authoritarian state, it's a problem -- and a tactic that should be pointed out.

 

[Erod]

While I definitely think foreign governments donated to the Clinton Foundation in order to get on the Clintons' good sides, I also think people who keep making the money laundering accusation don't actually know what money laundering is.

Money laundering in the sense that you can hide foreign campaign donations in the false wrapping of a charity foundation.

The lowest of the low.

 

[Cardinal]

Yes Obama can't unilaterally order a "wiretap" and no, I don't believe there was any comment on the alleged "wiretap" of Trump Tower.
I've been watching this since it started.
They will not comment on the FISA warrants nor anything about a "possible" investigation, because it's classified information and they said they will not comment on news outlet claims, for the same reason.

Comey specifically said that there's no evidence that Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower. That's a response to the actual accusation.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Clearly, in my view, we don't have the full story here as yet, but that doesn't preclude those with personal animus, one way or the other, from drawing definitive conclusions.

I'd just ask, if anyone can confirm or deny, if the FBI and Comey are "continuing" an investigation into alleged connections between the Trump campaign and the Russians, when did that investigation begin? If it began prior to January 21st, or whenever the inauguration was held, then it was authorized under and commenced by the Obama administration. Secondly, if the investigation began before November 6, 2016, election day, then any investigation would involved the Trump campaign which was conducted out of Trump Tower in NYC, if I'm not mistaken, and thus, the possibility that surveillance was conducted at or about Trump Tower, the current President may be partially right without President Obama actually issuing a direct order.

Likewise, while it has come to light that Flynn was taped in conversation with the Russian diplomat, has it been released where that conversation or conversations took place? If Flynn met with the diplomat at Trump Tower or phoned him from there, that could also constitute a form of surveillance at Trump Tower.

As an outsider looking in, I have little to zero faith in the assumption that the American intelligence apparatus doesn't operate outside of its legal boundaries. They've been proven to do so in the past and likely continue to do so to this day.

As for Trump apologizing - not likely - hell, there are people here on DP who call others liars and when their accusations are proven wrong they run away and haven't the decency or integrity to admit they were wrong. Nothing new about that behavior.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Comey specifically said that there's no evidence that Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower. That's a response to the actual accusation.

Yea, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a "wiretap" on Trump Tower, just that Obama can't and didn't order it.

There could of been for other *reasons* but they can't/won't comment on that.

 

[TheGoverness]

Just highlighting how much latitude people want to give Trump on the "Obama had my wires tapped."

I'm not giving Trump any latitude at all. Trump specifically said that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower, and Comey said there is no evidence available to support that claim.

Trump's claim is unsubstantiated, that much is evident.

 

[Erod]

Comey specifically said that there's no evidence that Obama ordered a wiretap on Trump Tower. That's a response to the actual accusation.

There's no evidence about Russian collusion in the election. Since when did evidence matter to you?

 

[Eric7216]

Amazing that they are investigating and yet have not wiretapped into Trump Tower. Something doesn't fit here.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I don't swallow holes. I also don't listen to "anti-Trump propaganda". I listen to the facts as they are being reported. The facts prove what I already assumed, which is that Trump lied about Obama ordering a "tapp" (sic). I did learn that the FBI is investigating the Russia thing by virtue of this thread being started and me looking at the news after reading the OP. That's what grown ups do.

I changed #2 to Comey.

I don't know who the "Democratic overlords" are. I'm a registered Republican and have been since June of 1980. You'll need a Democrat to help you with that.

Can you get back on topic here, which isn't me?

You made it about me when you called me a "Trump supporter". I stated you, and your ilk, were "pre-accusing" people of doing things that the other side did. *shrug*

We can take the discussion in any direction you want.



Fawning or not fawning over comey, you came out and made the hyper partisan comment that started this back and forth.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

lol

I hate to break it to you, but some of us actually keep track of what Trump says and does, and it is obvious that he is using this authoritarian / Soviet / Putin tactic. Pointing it out is not an example of propaganda.



You, uh, do understand you're now using technique that is being criticized, yes? :mrgreen:

The point is that when it's routinely used by a President, particularly one who tries to draw moral equivalencies between his own nation and a brutal authoritarian state, it's a problem -- and a tactic that should be pointed out.

Well, that's because I work for the Russians.

 

[Cardinal]

Yea, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a "wiretap" on Trump Tower, just that Obama can't and didn't order it.

There could of been for other *reasons* but they can't/won't comment on that.

The accusation is that Obama ordered it, and that he did so to work around FISA. That's what's relevant. Anything else that might have happened that's within the bounds of the law wouldn't be scandalous.

 

[tres borrachos]

You made it about me when you called me a "Trump supporter". I stated you, and your ilk, were "pre-accusing" people of doing things that the other side did. *shrug*

We can take the discussion in any direction you want.



Fawning or not fawning over comey, you came out and made the hyper partisan comment that started this back and forth.

Who is my "ilk"?

Can you get back on track now? The thread isn't about me.

 

[Cardinal]

Amazing that they are investigating and yet have not wiretapped into Trump Tower. Something doesn't fit here.

That's not what he said.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Who is my "ilk"?

Can you get back on track now? The thread isn't about me.

Your two questions have contradictory motives. Which one do you want me to do, I cannot accommodate both. it would be literally impossible.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

I'm not giving Trump any latitude at all. Trump specifically said that Obama wiretapped Trump Tower, and Comey said there is no evidence available to support that claim.

Trump's claim is unsubstantiated, that much is evident.

I understand that, but that is where a lot of disconnect is.
Some people give him more latitude on it and others don't.

If there was a "wiretap" on Trump Tower, for legal reasons, they'll conclude Obama was still responsible for it.
Because he was the head of the executive branch, during that time.

We know some kind of leak of legally protected information happened (Flynn leaks), so it's not out of the bounds of reality, that someone on his staff *could have* "unredacted" the information for political advantage, if said "wiretap" existed.

 

[TheGoverness]

Who is my "ilk"?

Can you get back on track now? The thread isn't about me.

We Librals are your ilk. We accepted and processed your application to the Left-Wing Ilk Society this morning.

 

[Cardinal]

There's no evidence about Russian collusion in the election. Since when did evidence matter to you?

I can only assume that Comey is feeding you highly classified information on the ongoing investigations. Are you accusing Comey of breaking the law?

 

[Visbek]

Clearly, in my view, we don't have the full story here as yet, but that doesn't preclude those with personal animus, one way or the other, from drawing definitive conclusions.

...or, we can only repeat what Comey has said.

• The FBI has no evidence to back up Trump's claims about Obama ordering illegal wiretaps.
• The FBI is investigating Trump campaign ties to Russian election interference.
• The investigation is serious.

I'd just ask, if anyone can confirm or deny, if the FBI and Comey are "continuing" an investigation into alleged connections between the Trump campaign and the Russians, when did that investigation begin?

We don't know, and he probably won't answer that.

If it began prior to January 21st, or whenever the inauguration was held, then it was authorized under and commenced by the Obama administration....

Weren't you just criticizing people who draw definite conclusions based on partial information?

Likewise, while it has come to light that Flynn was taped in conversation with the Russian diplomat, has it been released where that conversation or conversations took place? If Flynn met with the diplomat at Trump Tower or phoned him from there, that could also constitute a form of surveillance at Trump Tower.

We already know it was a phone call, and that Kislyak was the target of the surveillance.

As an outsider looking in, I have little to zero faith in the assumption that the American intelligence apparatus doesn't operate outside of its legal boundaries. They've been proven to do so in the past and likely continue to do so to this day.

True, but we know it happens because... they get caught at it.

With the FBI, DoJ, House and Senate intelligence committees, and White House all investigating? If Obama ordered illegal wiretaps, we'd know by now. Not to mention that the surveillance would be useless, since illegally obtained evidence can't be used in the courts of law, and just saying "oh the CIA spied on Trump without a warrant" in any court would get a bunch of people arrested.

As for Trump apologizing - not likely - hell, there are people here on DP who call others liars and when their accusations are proven wrong they run away and haven't the decency or integrity to admit they were wrong. Nothing new about that behavior.

Hello? We're not the President. We're not influential public figures. We're not even op-ed columnists. The standards are different.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

The accusation is that Obama ordered it, and that he did so to work around FISA. That's what's relevant. Anything else that might have happened that's within the bounds of the law wouldn't be scandalous.

It would if the information was collected legally, but leaked illegally, as happened with the Flynn leak.

 

[Cardinal]

It would if the information was collected legally, but leaked illegally, as happened with the Flynn leak.

Are you accusing Obama of leaking that discussion?