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Christian Identity Movement Spreads Race-Hate | Southern Poverty Law Center
THe problem you are having with me is that I am correct. Fact.
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CINOs: Christians in Name Only
- Thread starter calamity
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Christian Identity Movement Spreads Race-Hate | Southern Poverty Law Center
THe problem you are having with me is that I am correct. Fact.
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The Southern Poverty Law Center???? I'm surprised they haven't declared themselves a "hate group", because that's what they are.
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Well, that's a fair question, and the answer isn't as complicated as you might think. As I may or may not have said on this forum, I have lived all over the country, and I have found that wherever you live there are higher or lower concentrations of one denomination or another. Some areas are predominantly Baptist, others Presbyterian, I even lived in one place that I swear had ten Dutch Reformed churches in a town of 6000 people.
But when I became an Episcopalian I fell in love with the Mass, (and yes, they used to have a high Mass, not unlike the Catholic Mass.)
The place I lived where there were 10 DR churches in a town of 6000, if you wanted to go to an Episcopal Churcch you had to leave the state, I kid you not. The closest ones were north of the state line and south of the state line. I was about to start RCIA to become a Catholic when the next job came along, and I moved again. BUT, I found little difference on doctrine between the Churches, some said "tomato" and others said "Tomahto".
It's just a difference in the liturgy.
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:lol:
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Yes, as you should by now know, I am never wrong.
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Racists feel that way, for sure.
Fair answer...
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You ought to know.
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You are using three main stream Protestant denominations to show all denominations have similar doctrine? Even so, right off the bat, Lutherans and Episcopalian doctrine hold the Eucharist contains the real presence of Christ and believe in infant baptism, while Baptist’s believe the bread and wine are purely symbolic and only accept baptism of believers (age of accountability). Those are doctrinal differences. The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches believe in transubstantiation.
And then there are the Non-Trinitarians, the doctrinal differences between Catholic and Orthodox of procession of the Trinity, the additional books and difference of the nature of Christ among the Oriental Orthodox. Quakers teach Universal Salvation. And that’s not even touching LDS, JWs, or 7th Day Adventist’s who have even more radical doctrinal differences.
And those are doctrinal, not liturgical, differences.
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I know a plethora of CINOs, and they tend to use everyone they can get their hands on acting with anything but a sense of Christianity... drives home being agnostic.
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Wrong, Episcopalians are not "Protestant", although these days I wonder if they are even Christian's. Episcopalians do believe in the real presence, period. They dont try to explain how that happens, whereas the RCC has their explanation, the Lutherans have theirs. Neither the Baptists, nor the Lutherans, nor the Catholics nor the Episcopalians will ever discourage you from partaking of the Lord's Supper. If any of then tried to tell you that the Eucharist was "cannibalism", that would be a doctrinal difference. But, since the Church in general sees the Eucharist as a mystery of faith, the explanation is less important than the faith it takes to partake of it. So is the Eucharist transubstation or consubstation? We dont really know, all Jesus said was "take and eat".
Non-Trinitarians are not Christians, period, and I saw that coming a mile away. Anytime one of you wants to talk about Christian doctrines differing the drag in non Christian's to try to make their point.
Being a trinitarian does not define a Christian...following Christ's teachings/accepting him as your savoir does...
Driving home the fact that there are CINO's and then there are true Christians, just as Calamity said...
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Accepting his teachings as your savoir is how I would word it. As for the worshiping stuff, there is only one God...if even that. at most, Jesus was his messenger.
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No? What makes us Anglican? | Episcopal Church
“ The Episcopal Church, having its roots in the Church of England, is also an Anglican Church. Like all Anglican churches, the Episcopal Church is distinguished by the following characteristics:
Protestant, Yet Catholic
Anglicanism stands squarely in the Reformed tradition, yet considers itself just as directly descended from the
Early Church as the Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox churches. Episcopalians celebrate the "Mass"€� in ways similar to the Roman Catholic tradition, yet do not recognize a single authority, such as the Pope of Rome.”
The Episcopal Church is the Anglican Church in the U.S. that broke off from the Church of England at the time of the American Revolution. The CoE is certainly Protestant.
Catholics believe the bread and wine are literally, factually, actually transformed into the body and blood of Christ. Lutherans and Episcopalians do not believe this, but do believe Christ is present. Baptist do not believe Christ is present and the bread and wine are symbolic. These are serious doctrinal distinctions.
Absolutely untrue regarding Catholics: Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText
1399 The Eastern churches that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church celebrate the Eucharist with great love. "These Churches, although separated from us, yet possess true sacraments, above all - by apostolic succession - the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are still joined to us in closest intimacy." A certain communion in sacris, and so in the Eucharist, "given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not merely possible but is encouraged."235
1400 Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."236 It is for this reason that Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible for the Catholic Church. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord's death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."237
1401 When, in the Ordinary's judgment, a grave necessity arises, Catholic ministers may give the sacraments of Eucharist, Penance, and Anointing of the Sick to other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church, who ask for them of their own will, provided they give evidence of holding the Catholic faith regarding these sacraments and possess the required dispositions.
The Catholic Church says it does know. The Lutheran Church says it does know. And they disagree.
That you don’t consider the difference doctrinal is your own unique interpretation of the word: the churches themselves consider it doctrine.
They don’t consider themselves Christian? That’s news to me. Link?
And only begotten son...His firstborn...
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That is not my belief. But, I definitely can accept it as a metaphor.
Sure beats the delusion that Jesus is God, when Jesus himself said...
"for the Father is greater than I am" John 14:28
‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” Matthew 4:10
“You will indeed drink my cup, but to sit down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.” Matthew 20:23
“Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” Luke 22:42
“Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner." John 5:19
“If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me." John 8:42
"Most truly I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him." John 13:16
Even after Jesus’ ascension to heaven, his apostles described the Father as having a separate and superior position in relation to Jesus...1 Corinthians 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:1; 4:9, 10...
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Yeah, Jesus made it clear that he was not to be worshiped as a god. That's my opinion, of course.
That is the truth, according to God's Word...
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I'm good with that interpretation.
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:lamo
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And, He is not being worshipped for being Jesus (the human form).
Yes, it does. A Christian has to believe in a TRI-UNE God. Three in One.
Part of Christ teachings is accepting who Christ is.
The Saviour is Jesus. The Savior is God (in human form).
So many verses that indicate God being the Saviour. Here is one:
Isaiah 45:21-22
"Declare and set forth your case; Indeed, let them consult together Who has announced this from of old? Who has long since declared it?
Is it not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me.
"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.
If God said there is no other - then, why is Jesus bearing the title of a Saviour?
That we need to turn to Jesus to be saved?
The whole part of Christ teaching is that there is only One God. All honour and glory must be given solely to God.
Here's the problem with your interpretation:
All the titles bestowed on God are also bestowed on Jesus.
If you believe they are not One and the Same - then, you're saying, Jesus was usurping the titles given to God!
Therefore......that also means, you are not following the teachings of Christ. So, there!
Here are all the evidences that God and Jesus are One and the same.
GOD HIMSELF will be with them[W;105]
I know you won't read them - but the evidences are not meant for you alone.
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It’s true, Episcopalians do not have a Pope. They have the Archbishop of Canterbury.
And yes, they do celebrate the Mass in ways similar to the RC tradition, so much so that when Catholics criticize their own Novus Ordo Mass they call it “that Anglican Mass”.
Finally, if a Church wants to call itself “Protestant” you’d expect to find it in their worship. The Creeds in Anglican services say “One Holy CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church”. As I have already pointed out, the Eucharist is a dead ringer for the RC Eucharistic service. You will find the Magnificat, or Song of Mary, in the Evening Prayer service, which would send the harder core Protestants into anaphylactic shock, they’d call it “Mary worship”.
No, in this case, “Protestant” is just a word used to say, “We are not RC”, or “We are not the English church, we are the American Church”. There are no theological implications.
In the first place, Baptists do not make a pretense of administering the Eucharist, they say flat out that their expression is symbolic and they call it “communion”. That is a liturgical difference, they are not passing off their communion as the Eucharist, so there is no doctrinal difference.
Second, Episcopalians make no effort to explain how the Body and Blood of Christ come to you. I refer you to the 39 Articles of Religion:
“Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.”
Lutherans call it “Consubstantiation”, which might be closer to what Anglicans believe if we bothered to explain it, but we don’t. We just call it what Christ himself called it: “The Body and Blood of Christ”. Which is what the Lutherans call it. Which is what the RC calls it.
Yeah, that is their claim, but it may interest you to know that I myself have three lines of succession, one of them being Catholic, which even the RC Church couldn’t dispute.
In reality, I have never been refused the Eucharist in a RC Church. In our own Church we invite all baptized believers to come forward. When Pope Leo declared our orders invalid, there was a political reason for it: he wanted to keep Roman Catholics from fulfilling their obligation in Anglican Churches as opposed to going the extra block to attend RC services. So once again we see that these alleged "doctrinal differences" are in fact political differences, which is what the "English reformation" itself was. Political.
Ever hear of Arius? He was a non-Trinitarian who got himself banished in 325. You can look that up.
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