CINOs: Christians in Name Only

[devildavid]

People change all the time, with or without religion. It's a primary trait of being human: we learn and are quick to adapt.

Our basic personality does not change. Adapting to the environment is not changing your personality.

 

[calamity]

Our basic personality does not change. Adapting to the environment is not changing your personality.

We change behavior. And, that is no different than changing our personality.

And, of course, there is always the aging thing. Chemical changes in the brain often radically alter our personalities.

 

[devildavid]

We change behavior. And, that is no different than changing our personality.

And, of course, there is always the aging thing. Chemical changes in the brain often radically alter our personalities.

Behavior is a result of personality. And yes, physical changes in the body can cause personality changes. That is entirely different from the choices we make. Choosing a religious belief is not a physical change in the body any more than choosing what clothes to wear, food to eat, movies to watch, books to read, etc. All those choices stem from our personality, they do not create our personality.

 

[Daisy]

Behavior is a result of personality. And yes, physical changes in the body can cause personality changes. That is entirely different from the choices we make. Choosing a religious belief is not a physical change in the body any more than choosing what clothes to wear, food to eat, movies to watch, books to read, etc. All those choices stem from our personality, they do not create our personality.

Of course not...it is a mental/emotional/spiritual change...

 

[calamity]

Behavior is a result of personality. And yes, physical changes in the body can cause personality changes. That is entirely different from the choices we make. Choosing a religious belief is not a physical change in the body any more than choosing what clothes to wear, food to eat, movies to watch, books to read, etc. All those choices stem from our personality, they do not create our personality.

If that were true, then there would be no point in releasing people from prison. May as well kill them all, since they will never change. But, of course, recidivism rates are not 100%. So, boom, bang, down in flames goes your theory.

 

[devildavid]

If that were true, then there would be no point in releasing people from prison. May as well kill them all, since they will never change. But, of course, recidivism rates are not 100%. So, boom, bang, down in flames goes your theory.

Their personalities do not change. Their actions may change for fear of further incarceration. Some crimes are one shot deals of passion that may not repeat. and why kill all prisoners, even those who did not commit violent crimes? So what is the rate of recidivism of those who has a history of violence?

 

[devildavid]

Of course not...it is a mental/emotional/spiritual change...

Mental and emotional are physical. Spiritual is fake.

 

[calamity]

Their personalities do not change. Their actions may change for fear of further incarceration. Some crimes are one shot deals of passion that may not repeat. and why kill all prisoners, even those who did not commit violent crimes? So what is the rate of recidivism of those who has a history of violence?

All you need to know right here.
Recidivism - Wikipedia

The rates are far lower than you seem to indicate by your negative attitude. Fact remains, most people learn their lessons from their mistakes and change behavior (personality) to conform. If that was not the case, every person who was ever fired would never be able to hold a job. Every child serving detention would end up expelled within a year or two. Etc.

 

[devildavid]

All you need to know right here.
Recidivism - Wikipedia

The rates are far lower than you seem to indicate by your negative attitude. Fact remains, most people learn their lessons from their mistakes and change behavior (personality) to conform. If that was not the case, every person who was ever fired would never be able to hold a job. Every child serving detention would end up expelled within a year or two. Etc.

You are creating straw man arguments. A person prone to violence does not change from being put in prison. People have tendencies that do not change.

 

[calamity]

You are creating straw man arguments. A person prone to violence does not change from being put in prison. People have tendencies that do not change.

We're not talking about outliers. We are talking about the masses, and almost all of us know dozens of people who have changed, most for the better, some for the worse.

I guess you haven't run across any yet.

 

[Daisy]

We're not talking about outliers. We are talking about the masses, and almost all of us know dozens of people who have changed. I guess you haven't run across any yet.

Exactly...some learn from their mistakes, others don't...guess he falls in the latter category...

 

[devildavid]

We're not talking about outliers. We are talking about the masses, and almost all of us know dozens of people who have changed, most for the better, some for the worse.

I guess you haven't run across any yet.

I am talking about our basic personalities. How many people do you know whose basic personality was changed by religion? I don't know anyone like that.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I am talking about our basic personalities. How many people do you know whose basic personality was changed by religion? I don't know anyone like that.

The primary purpose of organized religion is to alter (change?) people's basic outlook on life (personality?). The fact that organized religion was developed and remains popular would indicate that it has a significant number of people who feel that it has the power to do so. Whether you (personally) know (or are able to recognize) someone who's way of thinking/acting (personality?) has been influenced by organized religion makes little difference.

 

[calamity]

The primary purpose of organized religion is to alter (change?) people's basic outlook on life (personality?). The fact that organized religion was developed and remains popular would indicate that it has a significant number of people who feel that it has the power to do so. Whether you (personally) know (or are able to recognize) someone who's way of thinking/acting (personality?) has been influenced by organized religion makes little difference.

Yes. Although religion is not necessary for everyone, many people do find that religion helps guide their decision making. I would even argue that many of us who do not adhere to any kind of religion still rely on some sort of moral code that is derived from one or another of the popular religions to guide us in our thinking.

I know I do. It's not fear of fire and brimstone. But, I do allow the basic tenets of Christianity to shine a light on my path: be good to people, forgive them their trespass whenever possible, don't steal, don't do harm, etc etc.

 

[Paradoxical]

Everyone follows a philosophy in life, I don't care who you are, and yes, there are true people of faith....

On another site(s) I used to debate religion a lot. It is a losing proposition. There are many people who need to imagine that there is someone keeping score and they will be rewarded or punished for their deeds. There are many who don't follow the basic <alleged> teachings of Jesus, which predated him and are the Golden Rules and "sin" just as much if not more than a non believer does. For some, though, a belief that Christianity IS real makes them adhere to certain morals that are beneficial to society and if that is what it takes, I guess all is good. Secular humanism is better than Christianity when it comes to furthering humanity. No way to win these arguments and less than .001 percent of Christians would ever change their minds so there is little benefit in trying.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes. Although religion is not necessary for everyone, many people do find that religion helps guide their decision making. I would even argue that many of us who do not adhere to any kind of religion still rely on some sort of moral code that is derived from one or another of the popular religions to guide us in our thinking.

I know I do. It's not fear of fire and brimstone. But, I do allow the basic tenets of Christianity to shine a light on my path: be good to people, forgive them their trespass whenever possible, don't steal, don't do harm, etc etc.

If organized religion did no more than help reduce the instinct (human nature?) to act selfishly (seek instant gratification?) rather than look at the (a?) bigger picture (the effect of a given action on society which, of course, includes each individual) it would be worth having. Christianity is not alone among organized religions in expressing that idea.

 

[Daisy]

On another site(s) I used to debate religion a lot. It is a losing proposition. There are many people who need to imagine that there is someone keeping score and they will be rewarded or punished for their deeds. There are many who don't follow the basic <alleged> teachings of Jesus, which predated him and are the Golden Rules and "sin" just as much if not more than a non believer does. For some, though, a belief that Christianity IS real makes them adhere to certain morals that are beneficial to society and if that is what it takes, I guess all is good. Secular humanism is better than Christianity when it comes to furthering humanity. No way to win these arguments and less than .001 percent of Christians would ever change their minds so there is little benefit in trying.

You will probably find around the same amount of people who claim to be Christian, to be really Christian...that does not validate those few to be any less in God's eyes...Matthew 7:13-23...

 

[calamity]

I am talking about our basic personalities. How many people do you know whose basic personality was changed by religion? I don't know anyone like that.

You never met a reformed drunk who goes to AA along with all those others who allowed a "Higher Power" to come into their lives? Wow...must be nice to live in a bubble.

Seriously, you've never met someone who truly found Jesus? Not, the assholes who spit out his name in vain. I am talking about the ones who found him in spirit and have truly changed their entire way of thinking as a result.

Damn, in some ways, I consider myself among them. Not that I believe any of the hocus pocus bull****. But, I have truly found Christ in spirit, although I suspect it had more to do with changing hormones which come with turning 50 and no longer having the energy to be the big bad wolf of a younger man.

 

[calamity]

You will probably find around the same amount of people who claim to be Christian, to be really Christian...that does not validate those few to be any less in God's eyes...Matthew 7:13-23...

I can usually spot a CINO in short order. They lack the "forgiveness gene." The self-righteous are easy to see. As are those who spew out the word "Jesus" at every turn, using it as a weapon and not a word to spread love.

 

[Daisy]

I can usually spot a CINO in short order. They lack the "forgiveness gene." The self-righteous are easy to see. As are those who spew out the word "Jesus" at every turn, using it as a weapon and not a word to spread love.

And yet, they probably have no idea the reason why Jesus was sent or even what that good news of the Kingdom truly is......

"But he said to them: “I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.” Luke 4:43

 

[calamity]

And yet, they probably have no idea the reason why Jesus was sent or even what that good news of the Kingdom truly is......

"But he said to them: “I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God to other cities, because for this I was sent.” Luke 4:43

Ironically they (the CINO) hate the people in "other cities." IMO, they completely missed the dude's message.

 

[Paradoxical]

You will probably find around the same amount of people who claim to be Christian, to be really Christian...that does not validate those few to be any less in God's eyes...Matthew 7:13-23...

I never counted who was who because it's hard to tell. There are some very fine Christians for sure who really do try to adhere to living a moral life.

 

[calamity]

I never counted who was who because it's hard to tell. There are some very fine Christians for sure who really do try to adhere to living a moral life.

The term "Moral life" is ambiguous. I try not to use it, since it includes too much personal interpretation. For example, many CINO would consider a gay man who does good deeds and adheres to the teachings of Christ as immoral, simply for being gay. Meanwhile, that same CINO will revere the scam artist who spews out the word "Jesus" at ever turn for personal profit, calling him moral only because he speaks out against gays.

 

[Paradoxical]

The term "Moral life" is ambiguous. I try not to use it, since it includes too much personal interpretation. For example, many CINO would consider a gay man who does good deeds and adheres to the teachings of Christ as immoral, simply for being gay. Meanwhile, that same CINO will revere the scam artist who spews out the word "Jesus" at ever turn for personal profit, calling him moral only because he speaks out against gays.

I don't think you and I are far apart on religion.

 

[calamity]

If ever there was a look of Satan, this CINO has it in spades.

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