Christianity and eternal life

[blackjack50]

What would you know about it? I referred you to a comprehensive book of evidences about Jesus Christ and you swept it under your rug and couldn't have cared less about it.

View attachment 67185671

Recommend you read it and you'll be light years ahead of where you are at present time.

I asked you for specific evidence. I didn't ask for a book. I asked for you to provide me something. You didn't.

 

[Logicman]

I asked you for specific evidence. I didn't ask for a book. I asked for you to provide me something. You didn't.

You go to school they give you a book, right? And you read it and hopefully get smarter.

Why won't you crack a book on the evidences for Christianity? Afraid it will burst your bubble?

And I have provided evidences.

How do we know the New Testament was written in the 1st century?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUedYGs_lqq1uNet0u7qlSyQ&v=CtOJyknzaQw

Mathematical Probability Jesus is the Christ

Mathematical Probability that Jesus is the Christ

The Messiah was Prophesied to be God

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God

Testimony of the Evangelists by Simon Greenleaf

Simon Greenleaf wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated:

"It was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).

Greenleaf concluded that according to the jurisdiction of legal evidence the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the best supported event in all of history!

The Resurrection of Christ, Fact or Fiction

The Resurrection of Jesus Christ, Fact or Fiction?

Twelve Historical Facts Scholars believe about the Resurrection

MYSTAGOGY: 12 Historical Facts Most Critical Scholars Believe Supporting the Resurrection

List of Biblical People identified by non-Biblical Sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biblical_figures_identified_in_extra-biblical_sources

Ancient Evidence for Jesus from non-Christian Sources

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMN...dence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm

Earliest Mention of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ

Earliest Mention of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ « The Righter Report

Manuscript Evidence for the Bible

Manuscript Evidence for the Bible: An Outline - Faith Facts

Scholars Date New Testament to the 1st Century

A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books

Extra-Biblical Evidence for the Historical Jesus

https://jamesbishopblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/05/extra-biblical-evidence-for-the-historical-jesus/

Evidence for the Resurrection of Christ

Evidence for the Resurrection of Christ by Peter Kreeft and Ronald K. Tacelli

Gospel Dates and Reliability

Gospel Dates and Reliability - creation.com

 

[Logicman]

I asked you for specific evidence. I didn't ask for a book. I asked for you to provide me something. You didn't.

Right above you in Post # 127

Do you believe in Jesus?

Where did you get your information about him - i.e. what were the original sources upon which the story of Jesus originated?

 

[blackjack50]

Right above you in Post # 127

Do you believe in Jesus?

Where did you get your information about him - i.e. what were the original sources upon which the story of Jesus originated?

I have faith. I don't get evidence on his existence. You require evidence for your faith? That is no longer faith.

And

The above...none is scientific evidence. It is all because so and so said so.

Why do you insist on needing evidence? Why do you require it? Is your faith that weak?

 

[Logicman]

I have faith. I don't get evidence on his existence. You require evidence for your faith? That is no longer faith.

And

The above...none is scientific evidence. It is all because so and so said so.

Why do you insist on needing evidence? Why do you require it? Is your faith that weak?

Way to sweep all of those evidences I provided under your rug. Is your faith so weak you can't look at evidence?

As for scientific evidence, tell me what scientific evidence you think there can be for Jesus? For his resurrection? Explain it.

 

[blackjack50]

Way to sweep all of those evidences I provided under your rug. Is your faith so weak you can't look at evidence?

As for scientific evidence, tell me what scientific evidence you think there can be for Jesus? For his resurrection? Explain it.

For Jesus? Let's see...DNA? Proof of virgin birth? Something along those lines.

But I'm not really asking for proof that a man existed either. You realize that if you found proof of Jesus that the logical conclusion for a skeptic is to assume that he fooled people, like any cult leader. I mean...how do you feel about Islam?

I want proof of God. Scientific evidence.

 

[Logicman]

I have faith. I don't get evidence on his existence. You require evidence for your faith? That is no longer faith.

And

The above...none is scientific evidence. It is all because so and so said so.

Why do you insist on needing evidence? Why do you require it? Is your faith that weak?

You didn't answer the questions:

1. Do you believe in Jesus as your Lord God and Resurrected Savior?

2. Where did you get your information about him - i.e. what were the original sources upon which the story of Jesus originated?

 

[Logicman]

For Jesus? Let's see...DNA? Proof of virgin birth? Something along those lines.

This is rich. You want DNA from a man who ascended into heaven! You want me to fly up to heaven and drain some blood? Is that your demand?

I want proof of God. Scientific evidence.

Why? You say there is no evidence, but you want it anyway? Why do you speak in circles?

 

[brothern]

This is rich. You want DNA from a man who ascended into heaven! You want me to fly up to heaven and drain some blood? Is that your demand?

Well given that Christians literally believed that Heaven sat on top the firmament mentioned in Genesis 6, including the Christians during the time of Jesus, you flying up to Heaven isn't all too out of the question.

Our Lord and Savior's probably floating around Jupiter as we speak.

 

[blackjack50]

You didn't answer the questions:

1. Do you believe in Jesus as your Lord God and Resurrected Savior?

2. Where did you get your information about him - i.e. what were the original sources upon which the story of Jesus originated?

You know I do.

And

I got my information from the Bible. But I didn't need the bible to tell me to believe. I did. I've had too much good and seen what happens with the pain of loss and how it is healed. But we aren't talking about evidence for ME.

Scientific evidence is not personal. It is impersonal and measurable, and anyone with a BoS knows this. Or should. And you aren't trying to provide evidence to convert yours truly. You don't need it. Atheists here have asked you for proof to convert them, and "the bible says so" isn't enough for them. They believe the Bible is fiction.

 

[Logicman]

Well given that Christians literally believed that Heaven sat on top the firmament mentioned in Genesis 6, including the Christians during the time of Jesus, you flying up to Heaven isn't all too out of the question.

Our Lord and Savior's probably floating around Jupiter as we speak.

I don't know any Christians who believe now or ever have believed in a literal dome firmament. That's another skeptic fairy tale.

 

[Paschendale]

No anger, no deceit... no politics. And the singing... I can't wait to be part of the heavenly chorus; can you imagine what that will be like?

No more wars; no more terrorism; no more dictators, tyranny, despotism, slavery, discrimination, hatred, riots, shootings, thefts, murders...

Except for the tyrannical despot dictator named god. Who discriminates a lot, hates a lot of people, and abuses, tortures, and kills lots of people.

Living forever sounds pretty awful to me, especially living forever as a supplicant to a brutish king from whom there is no respite.

It's the Bible you're arguing against, not a logical fallacy. You mentioned Jesus and in the same vein talked about God and him putting us on the earth for 70 years. That's the Biblical God.

So don't try to skate - answer the question: If you're God, how do you create man with free will and at the same time not allow him to commit evil acts (killing babies, etc.) if he chooses?

That's really really easy. You create people with more rationality, more compassion, and less fear. Then we're still making choices, which could include evil acts, but significantly lesser propensity towards them. We could have been created much more powerful compared to our environment, reducing our need and desire to compete for power or resources. There are many many things that could be different about us and about the world that would alter how much cruelty and violence we enact upon each other, without removing our ability to choose. Since you're so fond of questions, why is a god who didn't choose to make the world that way not a sadistic prick?

I mean no offense... but if you can say "I would abandon my faith if...." then I must ask if you ever really had faith to begin with? You need not answer, but I think it would bear some thought.

I abandoned my faith when I learned more about the world, about history, about science, and about humanity and learned that my faith was absurd. It was genuine when I had it, but it was born of ignorance. I don't think you should presume on other people's sincerity.

"To those who believe, no proof is necessary. To those who do not believe, no proof is possible."

So basically, unless you've already decided that this is true, nothing in reality will convince you. That sounds an awful lot to me like it's simply not true.

I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist

You don't have enough knowledge to be an atheist.

Die once and then the judgement. There are some atheists who don't gave the balls to stand before God or even want Him to exist for fear there sins might be exposed and held accountable.

No, it's mainly because we find the idea of being slaves for our whole lives and beyond to be pretty reprehensible. Why you prefer to be subject to an immortal king who will convict you of thoughtcrime is just bizarre to me.

 

[Logicman]

You know I do.

And

I got my information from the Bible....

OK, so you believe based on the historical accounts (evidence) found in the Bible. I rest my case.

 

[brothern]

I don't know any Christians who believe now or ever have believed in a literal dome firmament. That's another skeptic fairy tale.

Haha, you know many: Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine and your favorite go-to historian Josephus all discussed its composition in their writings.

 

[blackjack50]

OK, so you believe based on the historical accounts (evidence) found in the Bible. I rest my case.

Omg!!!

Is that scientific? No.

Is that undeniable evidence for an atheist? No.

You rest your case on a loss?

And my faith is NOT based on the Bible. I don't believe because the Bible says so.

 

[RAMOSS]

Way to sweep all of those evidences I provided under your rug. Is your faith so weak you can't look at evidence?

As for scientific evidence, tell me what scientific evidence you think there can be for Jesus? For his resurrection? Explain it.

Is your scholarship so poor you can't do anything more than post raw links that you can not show you actually looked at and understood?


Are you willing to vouch for the credibility of each and every one of your sources?

Would you be willing to take any one of those sources, and talk about the contents of that link in depth? Just to show it's credibility, and how credible you are? Or are you doing the 'let's throw as much stuff against the wall as possbile and see what sticks?

 

[brothern]

I want proof of God. Scientific evidence.

:roll:

 

[Logicman]

Omg!!!

Is that scientific? No.

Wasn't meant to be. And neither is a lot of evidence in a courtroom scientific, but it's still classified as evidence.

Is that undeniable evidence for an atheist? No.

Love your little twist there - 'undeniable.' But it is evidence nevertheless.

You rest your case on a loss?

And my faith is NOT based on the Bible. I don't believe because the Bible says so.

That's not what you said earlier. You said, "I got my information (about Jesus) from the Bible."

Yippee-ki-yay!

 

[Logicman]

Is your scholarship so poor you can't do anything more than post raw links that you can not show you actually looked at and understood?

Are you willing to vouch for the credibility of each and every one of your sources?

Would you be willing to take any one of those sources, and talk about the contents of that link in depth? Just to show it's credibility, and how credible you are? Or are you doing the 'let's throw as much stuff against the wall as possbile and see what sticks?

I don't need someone like you, who still hasn't a clue about Jesus Christ, trying to judge anything New Testament related.

You just don't have it, Ramoss.

Jesus is Lord!

 

[Logicman]

Originally Posted by Logicman

It's the Bible you're arguing against, not a logical fallacy. You mentioned Jesus and in the same vein talked about God and him putting us on the earth for 70 years. That's the Biblical God.

So don't try to skate - answer the question: If you're God, how do you create man with free will and at the same time not allow him to commit evil acts (killing babies, etc.) if he chooses?

That's really really easy. You create people with more rationality, more compassion, and less fear. Then we're still making choices, which could include evil acts, but significantly lesser propensity towards them. We could have been created much more powerful compared to our environment, reducing our need and desire to compete for power or resources. There are many many things that could be different about us and about the world that would alter how much cruelty and violence we enact upon each other, without removing our ability to choose.

Sorry, that's not a good answer. All you have if you make people like they should be are pre-programmed robots that are "kinder," whether they really want to be or not. That's mind-rape, Paschendale, and I'd have thought a liberal mind like yours would reject that.

Since you're so fond of questions, why is a god who didn't choose to make the world that way not a sadistic prick?

You're still breathing.

And he's not unkind to me. He's fed and clothed me all my life and provided me with many wonderful things. And when I die I'll get eternal life in heaven with "no more pain and no more sorrows."

I doubt you'll get those blessings unless you repent and receive Christ as your Lord and Savior for the remission of your sins. And if you wind up in Hell that will be your CHOICE for rejecting God's salvation. So don't cry if and when you get there.

 

[Paschendale]

Sorry, that's not a good answer. All you have if you make people like they should be are pre-programmed robots that are "kinder," whether they really want to be or not. That's mind-rape, Paschendale, and I'd have thought a liberal mind like yours would reject that.

You presume that whatever level we're set at now isn't "mind-rape" as you put it. A few simple changes in our hormones or in our physiology when this god was creating us, and we'd be different. It was a choice either way, but a whole lot of religious apologist nonsense is rooted in the presumption that us being as we currently are is a necessary default. If we were on average a foot taller, a choice that a designer god could easily make, would that rob us of our humanity? Of course not.

You're still breathing.

It's not practical for slave masters to kill their slaves.

And he's not unkind to me. He's fed and clothed me all my life and provided me with many wonderful things. And when I die I'll get eternal life in heaven with "no more pain and no more sorrows."

People fed you and clothed you. And your eternal life will be spent doing what? Singing praises to your slave master? Best be careful. If you don't sing loudly enough, you might get kicked downstairs.

I doubt you'll get those blessings unless you repent and receive Christ as your Lord and Savior for the remission of your sins. And if you wind up in Hell that will be your CHOICE for rejecting God's salvation. So don't cry if and when you get there.

Slavery is not salvation. I'd no more choose to be owned by your god than I would by Kim Jong Un.

 

[Logicman]

You presume that whatever level we're set at now isn't "mind-rape" as you put it. A few simple changes in our hormones or in our physiology when this god was creating us, and we'd be different. It was a choice either way, but a whole lot of religious apologist nonsense is rooted in the presumption that us being as we currently are is a necessary default. If we were on average a foot taller, a choice that a designer god could easily make, would that rob us of our humanity? Of course not.

Listen, anyone programmed to be 'better' or 'nicer' is nothing less than a pre-programmed robot. Gotta start from scratch, which is how we are created, IMO.

People fed you and clothed you. And your eternal life will be spent doing what? Singing praises to your slave master? Best be careful. If you don't sing loudly enough, you might get kicked downstairs.

Slavery is not salvation. I'd no more choose to be owned by your god than I would by Kim Jong Un.

Believe as you will.

And if you don't want God's eternal bliss, your only other alternative is to be Satan's b**** forever. Think about that one.

 

[RAMOSS]

I don't need someone like you, who still hasn't a clue about Jesus Christ, trying to judge anything New Testament related.

You just don't have it, Ramoss.

Jesus is Lord!

So, you whine, and them come up with a self patting on the back. I guess you can't show you even read your own sources, or know about it except by the titles.

 

[Paschendale]

Listen, anyone programmed to be 'better' or 'nicer' is nothing less than a pre-programmed robot. Gotta start from scratch, which is how we are created, IMO.

Of course that's your opinion. You don't know enough about biology, sociology, or psychology to have an informed position.

Believe as you will.

And if you don't want God's eternal bliss, your only other alternative is to be Satan's b**** forever. Think about that one.

I have as much fear of being punished for not being Christian as you do for not being Muslim. Probably less, actually.

 

[Logicman]

So, you whine, and them come up with a self patting on the back. I guess you can't show you even read your own sources, or know about it except by the titles.

Don't guess, Ramoss. You're not very good at it. Nor at recognizing the truth about Jesus Christ.