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China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

Once the nukes start flying everyone is involved whether they want to or not. Nuclear war is not currently optional once the birds start flying.
It becomes a use them or lose them proposition on very little hard data and mass confusion.

Its a two way street they dont like then too bad. Quite frankly the one China policy is stupid and should be ditched. We should make it very clear Taiwan is an ally.

you do understand it won't just be America to get it your navy in the pacific, the Indian ocean and your naval bases wiped out by Chinese over the horizon missile systems they have in 10s of thousands ... as i said start a shooting war with China the EU will not stand with you ... the only way the EU would be struck with nukes if we stood with you highly unlikely the only other option would America nuked us
 
That assumes Trump has a plan, which is not evident. He has no knowledge of international trade and doesn’t listen to those who do.

Of course, he is the most ignorant man ever to darken the door of the White House. If the man had any brains, he would know that this was a bad idea for the reasons I articulated. One of the biggest problems with America is that we are way too short-term focused. Our economy is built around guidance on quarterly earnings.
 
That's a myth.

The intended reforms of Xi and his English fluent prime minister Li Keqiang have failed because Chinese people won't increase their household spending anywhere near enough to stimulate their own economy domestically. All those factory laborers in China don't make enough to buy what they make anyway. The situation of the mass of factory laborers in China is pre Henry Ford in USA and his $5 a day.

Chinese people save and save and save. This is well known. Chinese know they need emergency money for medical expenses. Also to buy an apartment if they can. Everybody has got to have his car, from Japan number one and USA equally. If you own a Chinese made claptrap car you're poor, even if it's new...nobody rides with you ha. Your prosperity is judged by your car, which is nothing new as we know well and for a long time in USA and in other advanced economies. (Sports cars are judged by the Party to be too petty bourgeois so the tax is equal to the sticker price.)

Saving for the longer term is a Chinese iron rule due to the vicissitudes the Chinese know they've suffered over thousands of years. That is, ruler after ruler has failed 'em. Chinese people know they need to look out for themselves. Chinese people know their rulers are out for themselves and that the only thing the rulers do is to buy time because time is money for 'em. More of it in fact.

The rulers number one is power, money, corruption. It is they who live for each day only to see how much they can steal and swindle from the people. And the people know this, which is central to why they save. The rulers in contrast live for today and for tomorrow when they know they'll have to cut and run. It's the Chinese people who take and have the long view. Their long view is that their leaders always fail them. And that they themselves have to be ready for the day it occurs.

That's the only "long game" in China. It's by the Chinese people themselves who know that every emperor fails 'em sooner or later and that they themselves have to be prepared and ready to look out for themselves and their own survival. China is actually and in fact a rather gruff dog eat dog jungle despite some 21st century prosperity for some of the people.

Those who are middle class prosperous never see the money, which is familiar to many of the middle classes of the world. That is, on payday the money comes in and it goes out same day, while nobody who gets paid ever sees it. Almost everyone who's middle class relates to this eh. After I explain that to Chinese they feel better but not any more secure or comfortable than they did before they got the word on it. Chinese wouldn't know this about the world outside of China if we didn't advise 'em. China's limited opening is in economics and business, not in finance and capital, not in information or data, not in knowledge and not of the world beyond its closed borders.

That was a very nice post of your opinion. But it is your opinion. So unless you have some educational or experiential credentials to support this, kindly provide 3rd evidence. Meanwhile, here is my evidence that tells us that the Chinese play the long game, while the US is a lightweight log-term thinking.

Hofstede’s 5 Cultural Dimensions for China | Scaling the Great Wall of China
Long-Term Orientation – Clearly Cultural
http://faculty.cbpa.drake.edu/dmr/0301/DMR030101V.pdf

Anecdotally, the Chinese economy is not measured by a stock market who's value is tied to forecasting numbers by the quarter and making those numbers; nor is it subject to 2 year election cycles. Trump is clearly acting on impulse as he has no credible political/economic advisors around him, nor does he listen to them. That compounded with the fact that Trump clearly has little understanding of economics on his own. He is being foolish, with the economic security of the US at stake.

Sorry, but I find your arguments pretty unconvincing in that light, but I welcome your third party evidence.

Donald Lambro: Trump is reaping what he’s sown with foolish tariff trade war – Times-Herald
 
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Once the nukes start flying everyone is involved whether they want to or not. Nuclear war is not currently optional once the birds start flying.
It becomes a use them or lose them proposition on very little hard data and mass confusion.

Its a two way street they dont like then too bad. Quite frankly the one China policy is stupid and should be ditched. We should make it very clear Taiwan is an ally.

U.S this month made two big weapons sales to Taiwan that has Xi Ping Pong and the Boyz in Beijing bouncing and swinging mad.

Earlier this month DepState announced approval of $2.2 bn package of 108 M1A2T Abrams tanks, 250 Stinger air defense missiles, mounted machine guns and other Army weapons.

Wednesday State Department announced another big package. This one is of $8 bn for 66 of the F-16 Viper Block 70/72, which includes many technologies not present in earlier models. Taiwan has been upgrading its fleet of the earlier model F-16 Fighting Falcon as it is.



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Taiwan thanked the US for support on Tuesday, after the US State Department agreed to sell it $2.2 billion in armored weapons platforms. The decision to sell weapons to the Taiwan government comes as the US is clashing with Beijing over global trade and as Taiwan expresses its strong support of democracy demonstrations in Hong Kong. This year immigration to Taiwan from Hong Kong is up by 28%.





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US F-16 Fighting Falcon Viper, 66 of which Taiwan has been eager to buy and which surely will be approved by Congress. Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen said the purchase would help the country develop a new air force and boost air defenses. "With strong self-defense capacity, Taiwan will certainly be more confident to ensure the cross-strait and regional peace and stability while facing security challenges," she said. National elections on Taiwan will be held in January with Tsai's pro independence Democratic Progressive Party expected to retain the presidency and control of the national assembly.



Taiwan is a huge beneficiary of the US trade war against China. Taiwan's increase in exports to the United States has added 2% to its GDP this year. This amount helps considerably to pay for the purchase of the weapons platforms from USA.
 
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No reason they should. Trump is causing plenty of damage to the GOP all by himself.

Again, he started this trade war.. It's all on him..

Trade wars are easy to win.. Remember?

There is a great deal of reason they should. China isn't a rich country after all and they have definitely benefited by the 40 year long bipartisan policy of the USA toward it that Trump is upsetting.
 
There is a great deal of reason they should. China isn't a rich country after all and they have definitely benefited by the 40 year long bipartisan policy of the USA toward it that Trump is upsetting.
Our capitalism and consumer economy have benefitted too. That 50 inch TV you bought for $300 instead of $3000 for an American made tv keeps our economy going..
 
1) That's might be your perception, but historically you are wrong. Nobody broke Clinton's arm.
President Bill Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993. It entered into force on January 1, 1994.

2) If you think the Clintons were not in the pocket of corps. and the wealthy I've a nice bridge to sell you.
They have always done what was best for their bottom line.

Since the Clinton administration created more jobs than Reagan and the 2 Bush's combined and left office with the highest approval ever, you wish any Republican could even approach his record. He also had the best middle class wage growth in a generation.
 
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There is a great deal of reason they should. China isn't a rich country after all and they have definitely benefited by the 40 year long bipartisan policy of the USA toward it that Trump is upsetting.

Trump made all his goods in China and so have 100's of American corporations. I'd say we both benefited from our relationship. Our economy is as tied to the World economy as any nation. No nation is an island and Trump is acting like we are. I think it is a deliberate act to weaken us....and it is working. Trump legacy will be one of lies and sedition against this nation and as a real Manchurian candidate.
 
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I remember it. I was a Democrat at the time... and then something astonishing happened.
Buy American, support unions, hire Americans, America first became racism, and Globablism and importing junk from China and importing workers from around the world became the answer to everything.

You need to remember that Trump is a rich greedy Republican too. The difference he is making his money from Russia now and they want us weakened and our influence in the world ended. Watch what he does to us at the G7.
 
Our capitalism and consumer economy have benefitted too. That 50 inch TV you bought for $300 instead of $3000 for an American made tv keeps our economy going..

Yep-- meanwhile China grows more powerful and less western oriented.
 
Trump made all his goods in China and so have 100's of American corporations. I'd say we both benefited from our relationship. Our economy is as tied to the World economy as any nation. No nation is an island and Trump is acting like we are. I think it is a deliberate act to weaken us....and it is working. Trump legacy will be one of lies and sedition against this nation and as a real Manchurian candidate.

Yep. Both countries have benefited.
 
Right now the Dow futures is at -555
 
That was a very nice post of your opinion. But it is your opinion. So unless you have some educational or experiential credentials to support this, kindly provide 3rd evidence. Meanwhile, here is my evidence that tells us that the Chinese play the long game, while the US is a lightweight log-term thinking.

Hofstede’s 5 Cultural Dimensions for China | Scaling the Great Wall of China
Long-Term Orientation – Clearly Cultural
http://faculty.cbpa.drake.edu/dmr/0301/DMR030101V.pdf

Anecdotally, the Chinese economy is not measured by a stock market who's value is tied to forecasting numbers by the quarter and making those numbers; nor is it subject to 2 year election cycles. Trump is clearly acting on impulse as he has no credible political/economic advisors around him, nor does he listen to them. That compounded with the fact that Trump clearly has little understanding of economics on his own. He is being foolish, with the economic security of the US at stake.

Sorry, but I find your arguments pretty unconvincing in that light, but I welcome your third party evidence.

Donald Lambro: Trump is reaping what he’s sown with foolish tariff trade war – Times-Herald

I have lived and worked in China for the past ten years to the present. I am in Shenzhen City adjacent to Hong Kong. Shenzhen City is the electronics city. The province I am in -- Guangdong province -- puts $1 Trillion into CCP GDP. That's a lot of green.

I transit Hong Kong and China back and forth with occasional return visits to USA that are both personal and business related.

I am posting from China based on this personal experience. I have my opinions, yes, and so do you. That is, while you live by myth and legend, I live by fact and personal knowledge based on personal experience of interacting with the Chinese people daily and with CCP members regularly.

Accordingly, you are invited to get back to me with your questions about the reality of life on the mainland of China and in Hong Kong. I'd be pleased to inform you of each, which are radically different of course. Until then, kindly be more cautious and careful about your presumptions thx. Because while you are debating I am presenting my experience and knowledge in China both professional and personal.

So I hope you have a good evening and a better day tomorrow.
 
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Yep-- meanwhile China grows more powerful and less western oriented.


The TPP was us, and our allies keeping China close. Now thanks to Trump we're out of the TPP and we're on our own against China..

We're now all alone against China. And they're moving on to other trading partners. Trump is helping them to be even more important and powerful..

This is all on Trump..
 
He's politically astute though, and sees the political danger he's in. What else could have gotten him to back-down against China last week? And now surprising to him I suspect, after he backs down China does a surprise escalation!

I don't think Trump knows how to react with his opponents being more bombastic than he, taking control of the situation away from him. We saw this with the way Nancy Pelosi slapped him around during the shutdown, taking the lead and controlling the situation.

Anyway, hate to see the country suffer, but better to suffer a little for the next year, if it frees us from suffering under Trump for four more additional years of him being unconstrained politically as a lame duck.


OMG ... Trump as a lame duck with four years unfettered by concern about reelection.

I was already scared enough today.

That is a terrifying thought.
 
You are 100% correct...

They don't want Trump to win at anything though and if he doesn't win, the country loses, and you know what, that's OK with them.
**** China!

Nobody wants to sink this country, do you think you're special and only you have something to lose if the US economy falls? No, you are not. Why the hell do you think we've been so worried about this bastard? WE knew he was a phony and a fraud. YOU did not, you believed his lies, you dismissed he recklessness, you excused it and deflected to Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. It's all you supporters of this monster that are to blame because you welcomed this with open arms and in the meantime EVERYONE will be hurt. So NO, we did NOT want it to come to this. It was the biggest, deepest fear in the pits of our stomach and yes, the worst is yet to come. So buckle up.
 
I remember as late as 2014, Republicans were all for free trade, no tariffs and outsourcing labor to foreign countries. So, what’s your point?

The election of President Trump.

Both political parties sold out the USA and Americans on behalf of the corporate super rich of the world. Because the corporate super rich have bought up EVERY media outlet, EVERY newspaper and have virtual total control of the Internet, all people here 24/7 is corporate propaganda singularly for the goals of the super rich becoming forever richer and more powerful - while furiously demanding we-the-people be made defenseless and turned into beggars of them and the government they control.
 
Dow drops 400 points after Trump ‘ordered’ US companies from China

Dow drops 400 points after Trump ‘ordered’ US companies from China

The Dow Jones Industrial Average slid more than 350 points in the minutes following a tweet from President Trump "ordering" U.S. companies to find suppliers out of China.

The decline continued, with the blue-chip average sinking in total nearly 450 points, almost 1.8%, over the next hour.

The broader S&P 500 was off 50 points, or about 1.7%, by early Friday afternoon and the tech-heavy Nasdaq fell 2%.

China announced Friday that it was placing retaliatory tariffs against $75 billion worth of U.S. goods. Trump tweeted an early response on Friday morning, telling U.S. companies to begin moving their supply chains outside of China. Trump said he would make a more official response to Chinese tariffs later.
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Read that again. Our president is 'ordering' U.S. companies to find other vendors, other manufacturers for goods. Think about what he's ordering for a moment. Ivanka Trump got five new trademarks from China last January and that was in addition to the 13 she had already received since becoming 'first daughter'. Did he ask her to give them up or order her to find new vendors for her ****ty clothing line?

"Our great American companies are hereby ordered to immediately start looking for an alternative to China, including bringing your companies HOME and making your products in the USA,"

He's an incompetent, mentally deranged human being and he's the one needing to be put in a mental institution.
 
Nobody wants to sink this country, do you think you're special and only you have something to lose if the US economy falls? No, you are not. Why the hell do you think we've been so worried about this bastard? WE knew he was a phony and a fraud. YOU did not, you believed his lies, you dismissed he recklessness, you excused it and deflected to Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. It's all you supporters of this monster that are to blame because you welcomed this with open arms and in the meantime EVERYONE will be hurt. So NO, we did NOT want it to come to this. It was the biggest, deepest fear in the pits of our stomach and yes, the worst is yet to come. So buckle up.

It is rare to see anything but total contradictions by progressive on this forum.

So which is it? The USA was nearly ideal - no racism, no economic troubles, no social issues of inequality before President Trump? Or the USA was a racist, economically troubled and with huge social issues of social and economic equality as still is?

PICK ONE - then make your case. :roll:
 
OMG ... Trump as a lame duck with four years unfettered by concern about reelection.

I was already scared enough today.

That is a terrifying thought.

"Donald Trump will never be president. You can take that to the bank." Nancy Pelosi

So don't worry, Donald Trump has NO chance of beating President Hilary Clinton's re-election.

BTW, how much more money do you think Joe Biden's son should get from China this time if he is president and against negotiating trade with China?
 
It is rare to see anything but total contradictions by progressive on this forum.

So which is it? The USA was nearly ideal - no racism, no economic troubles, no social issues of inequality before President Trump? Or the USA was a racist, economically troubled and with huge social issues of social and economic equality as still is?

PICK ONE - then make your case. :roll:

I have never contradicted myself on the topic of Trump. What would you like me to say. Yes the USA IS a racially divided country, because of HIM. Yes the USA is in deep trouble economically because of his big fat tax reductions for the filthy rich. Yes, our allies are no longer our allies, thanks to him. Yes, he committed felonies, several of them including obstruction of justice, and suborning perjury. Then there's the little problem about the violation of the emoluments clause.

What do you see as my being contradictory? When it comes to him blowing up the deficit, not fixing infrastructure, taking away all the environmental protections under the EPA and contributing to the warming of the planet, not give us a new wonderful health care plan, and creating bigger problems with N. Korea and Iran, there are no contradictions there, just facts.
 
We need to get rid of the bonehead.
 
There is going to be some economic pain as we challenge China and try to de-couple the economies. However, it must be done and the price must be paid. Trading with China and boosting their economy is like enabling the Nazis, China must be confronted and opposed if not just because of how they abuse on trade, but because they pose a major threat to global/national security, democracy and commit major human rights violations.

And if the price to paid by Trump is not being elected to a 2nd term than I'm completely down with that.
 
There is a great deal of reason they should. China isn't a rich country after all and they have definitely benefited by the 40 year long bipartisan policy of the USA toward it that Trump is upsetting.

Under the terms and rules of the WTO, China is a developing economy and country.

WTO rules state the government of a member country can declare itself to be whatever it wants to be. So Beijing is self classified as a developing economy as a member of WTO. This self determined status gives the CCP-PRC exemptions and benefits a developed economy does not have, to include those of an advanced economy such as exist in North America, EU, Australia and in other places.

This is another absurdity of the USA strongly supporting and promoting Beijing's ascent to the WTO in the early 00 decade. And of continuing to support China's absurd membership self classification in the WTO as a developing economy. The Boyz in Beijing laugh about this regularly, no doubt.

CCP Boys in Beijing have only exploited and abused their membership of WTO since the US strongly supported their ascent to WTO. The time to punish 'em for it is long overdue. With a $12 Trillion GDP, the Boyz in Beijing need to change their status to developed or be taken to the woodshed for their unmitigated fraud and absurd exploitation of their WTO membership.
 
Nobody wants to sink this country, do you think you're special and only you have something to lose if the US economy falls? No, you are not. Why the hell do you think we've been so worried about this bastard? WE knew he was a phony and a fraud. YOU did not, you believed his lies, you dismissed he recklessness, you excused it and deflected to Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. It's all you supporters of this monster that are to blame because you welcomed this with open arms and in the meantime EVERYONE will be hurt. So NO, we did NOT want it to come to this. It was the biggest, deepest fear in the pits of our stomach and yes, the worst is yet to come. So buckle up.

If you want to sink Trump, and by the looks of your previous posts, you are on board for sinking the country.
I don't excuse butt hurtness.
 
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