China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

[Irredentist]

I am aware of the history behind NAFTA
Your point is to say that the Democratic Party hasn't done a 360 degree turn around?

If they did a 360 turn then they're facing the same direction that they were before.

 

[Irredentist]

I remember it. I was a Democrat at the time... and then something astonishing happened.
Buy American, support unions, hire Americans, America first became racism, and Globablism and importing junk from China and importing workers from around the world became the answer to everything.

Why should anyone care where their consumer goods are manufactured, or who's making them? It's the price that Americans care most about. That's why the companies moved to China in the first place.

 

[iguanaman]

I am aware of the history behind NAFTA
Your point is to say that the Democratic Party hasn't done a 360 degree turn around?

They were dragged kicking and screaming into it by GOP administrations and by the time Clinton was elected they were convinced of the merits of free trade. The problem was not free trade it was the incentives given to corporations to outsource that turned it ugly. That is what happens when Govt. is in the pocket of corporations and the wealthy. They do what is best for their bottom line.

 

[JANFU]

Source: (CNN) China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

I'm not sure what more can be said here. After getting Trump to blink & back down last week during U.S. crashing stock & bond markets, it seems China is now shifting gears and firmly taking the offense in escalating the trade & currency wars.

U.S. manufacturing has contracted for the first time in a decade, and the heightening trade war will only exasperate the contraction. The American consumer is keeping the economy afloat, but a contracting manufacturing sector will eventually trickle-down to less consumer spending. Obviously the manufacturing sector isn't as large a component of the U.S. economy as in days gone by, but it still is an important part of our economy.

It's my opinion that Trump has lost his self-inflicted trade war, and needs to declare victory and move on to something else. That is, if he wants to have an economy commensurate with his gaining re-election.

Additional relevance: For what it's worth, I just checked and the Dow is down nearly 600 pts and the yield curve just inverted again ... oh well ...

This trade war was going to happen. I recall in Woodward's book how this was looked at and planned for. Thing is it included NATO/EU countries to act in unison

Many here laughed at anyone who brought that forwards as they believed the Carnival Barker

Now who can trust Trump

If the US and other countries (NATO/EU) managed to act as one on cyber theft- protections for IP, to name a few, China would have been cornered

Many companies are moving all or partial production out of China. Imagine what the impact would have been with a verifiable agreement for all. And that is only for US destined products

Imagine what the impact on the Chinese economy if faced with tariffs from those countries- all the same, all on same dates

Vietnam and others have been the recipients of the move in Corp logistics/suppliers. Spin off results have been an improved economy in smaller countries and trade impact on Chinese suppliers, long term impact,

Weaken China and strengthens SE Asian countries economies. improves relations with the US.
As we have seen, Donnie screwed the pooch

 

[iguanaman]

I fear the above is based on wishful thinking.

If you have children and care about future generations, you'd agree that there is no time like the present to deal with this China nonsense.

Again you need to have a viable plan or you are just causing pain. Trade wars are not plans that ever work. Obama had a much more thought out plan with the TPP. Going it alone was suicide. I am beginning to think that WAS the plan.

 

[Tangmo]

Another thing which may have been a factor is the fact that governments tend to crumble over the centuries.
ymmv

The Qin (Chin) Dynasty of 221-206 BCE lasted all of 15 years. There are dozens of 'em like that, more or less a decade or so also.

The CCP Dynasty of emperors in business suits won't last 100 years, it's more than reasonably safe to say. Their Rube Goldberg economic and financial systems aren't going to get 'em there. For one thing global markets are tapping their feet waiting for the inevitable "major economic adjustment" the market will impose on China and that the CCP Boys in Beijing keep sweeping under the proverbial rug.

The debt to GDP ratio has finally hit 300 percent. CCP Boyz in Beijing had been trying to deal with it until the trade war. Now the ratio is on fire again as the Boyz have to pump cheap money into their mangled economy to compensate. Trump finally declared Beijing a currency manipulator, which the US hasn't done since 1994. That will begin to kick the Boyz in the arse in the fall.

Trump and his China advisers are focused on containing China and not letting 'em take their vile and foul systems very far outside their borders. Trump is in fact now showing his true beliefs and feelings which is to wreck 'em.

In a trade war the debtor nation prevails historically over the creditor nation. That's USA v China. Each side suffers for sure, yet the debtor nation is always better positioned to prevail. It's also the case that while in USA many are hysterical about tariff dogmas, in China the population is downcast that the USA has turned against 'em. Chinese people know their leaders aren't smart enough to outsmart the United States. And that's a fact.

 

[upsideguy]

Source: (CNN) China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

I'm not sure what more can be said here. After getting Trump to blink & back down last week during U.S. crashing stock & bond markets, it seems China is now shifting gears and firmly taking the offense in escalating the trade & currency wars.

U.S. manufacturing has contracted for the first time in a decade, and the heightening trade war will only exasperate the contraction. The American consumer is keeping the economy afloat, but a contracting manufacturing sector will eventually trickle-down to less consumer spending. Obviously the manufacturing sector isn't as large a component of the U.S. economy as in days gone by, but it still is an important part of our economy.

It's my opinion that Trump has lost his self-inflicted trade war, and needs to declare victory and move on to something else. That is, if he wants to have an economy commensurate with his gaining re-election.

Additional relevance: For what it's worth, I just checked and the Dow is down nearly 600 pts and the yield curve just inverted again ... oh well ...

Never try playing a short-game with an adversary that is a long-game player, especially when you have no long-game.

 

[MTAtech]

Do any of you Democrats remember when the Democratic Party's slogan was "Buy American" and supported trade unions by supporting restrictive tariffs and opposing immigration by foreigners who would take Americans blue collar jobs, drive wages down, and make conducting a successful strike impossible to win?
Now the Democratic Party furiously - "progressive" rather than "liberal," - furious demands the USA become just one state of an International Corporate Fascist world they totally control, including totally controlling all information flow by the MSM, press and Internet - ranting against tariffs and demanding unlimited foreign immigration to totally trash American wages and social programs for Americans literally driving Americans into homelessness on a mass scale.

I remember as late as 2014, Republicans were all for free trade, no tariffs and outsourcing labor to foreign countries. So, what’s your point?

 

[MTAtech]

Never try playing a short-game with an adversary that is a long-game player, especially when you have no long-game.

That assumes Trump has a plan, which is not evident. He has no knowledge of international trade and doesn’t listen to those who do.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

‘Making things worse’: National Farmer’s Union chief unloads on Trump in blistering statement on trade war – Raw Story

 

[Bullseye]

Because it underscores the chaotic nature of all Trump's ventures and the fact that he has no plan to win mostly because there is no plan to win in a trade war. Everybody loses.

Pure loony lib dribble. :roll:

 

[Northern Light]

Source: (CNN) China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

I'm not sure what more can be said here. After getting Trump to blink & back down last week during U.S. crashing stock & bond markets, it seems China is now shifting gears and firmly taking the offense in escalating the trade & currency wars.

U.S. manufacturing has contracted for the first time in a decade, and the heightening trade war will only exasperate the contraction. The American consumer is keeping the economy afloat, but a contracting manufacturing sector will eventually trickle-down to less consumer spending. Obviously the manufacturing sector isn't as large a component of the U.S. economy as in days gone by, but it still is an important part of our economy.

It's my opinion that Trump has lost his self-inflicted trade war, and needs to declare victory and move on to something else. That is, if he wants to have an economy commensurate with his gaining re-election.

Additional relevance: For what it's worth, I just checked and the Dow is down nearly 600 pts and the yield curve just inverted again ... oh well ...

I agree with what some other posters have already said: we need to claw back some powers from the Executive branch. There is too much power invested in one person when he can unilaterally ruin a nation's economy with a trade war. Trump is not qualified to be President.

Also, this deluded notion that the U.S. will temporarily contract and then boom again once we de-couple from China is totally folly. All of our major business firms have abdicated our manufacturing sector to foreign lands. Our economy has been switching to consumer based and service based for decades now. It's too late to peddle American isolationism. We gave up the domestic capital that allowed us to stay isolationist. Now we are totally dependent upon the global economy to survive as a nation.

Consumer spending is not going to keep us afloat, not with household debt at the levels it's at. Trump has put some of the final nails in our coffin. Between all the wars we're fighting and now the trade war with our biggest manufacturing source, we are about to become a second rate power.

The fact that some people will still stand by this clown is what makes our nation a laughing stock. Seriously, the world is laughing at us. Actually, they stopped laughing a while back, now they're just shaking their heads.

 

[trixare4kids]

They were dragged kicking and screaming into it by GOP administrations and by the time Clinton was elected they were convinced of the merits of free trade. The problem was not free trade it was the incentives given to corporations to outsource that turned it ugly. That is what happens when Govt. is in the pocket of corporations and the wealthy. They do what is best for their bottom line.

1) That's might be your perception, but historically you are wrong. Nobody broke Clinton's arm.
President Bill Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993. It entered into force on January 1, 1994.

2) If you think the Clintons were not in the pocket of corps. and the wealthy I've a nice bridge to sell you.
They have always done what was best for their bottom line.

 

[Athanasius68]

China can endure much more economic pain than we Americans can, add in there's an election next year.

The Republicans in Congress better grow a pair and step on the madman in the WH, or the 2020 election will be a bloodbath for the GOP.. And I'm not just talking about in Washington DC.

So is China trying to interfere in the election?

 

[Deuce]

I remember it. I was a Democrat at the time... and then something astonishing happened.
Buy American, support unions, hire Americans, America first became racism, and Globablism and importing junk from China and importing workers from around the world became the answer to everything.

"Buy American" didn't become racism.

Why would you make up something so absurd?

 

[Deuce]

Donald Trump's solution to American taxpayers being burdened by all this is to... raise taxes on Americans!

 

[Athanasius68]

Never try playing a short-game with an adversary that is a long-game player, especially when you have no long-game.

And what is China's long term game? Is the USA threatening that plan by changing its long term strategy for dealing with China?

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

So is China trying to interfere in the election?

???.. Since Trump got us out of TPP, and started the trade war with China I'm not sure I understand your question.

If this is an issue in 2020 it's all on Trump. I'm no fan of China, but they didn't start this.

 

[Tangmo]

Never try playing a short-game with an adversary that is a long-game player, especially when you have no long-game.

That's a myth.

The intended reforms of Xi and his English fluent prime minister Li Keqiang have failed because Chinese people won't increase their household spending anywhere near enough to stimulate their own economy domestically. All those factory laborers in China don't make enough to buy what they make anyway. The situation of the mass of factory laborers in China is pre Henry Ford in USA and his $5 a day.

Chinese people save and save and save. This is well known. Chinese know they need emergency money for medical expenses. Also to buy an apartment if they can. Everybody has got to have his car, from Japan number one and USA equally. If you own a Chinese made claptrap car you're poor, even if it's new...nobody rides with you ha. Your prosperity is judged by your car, which is nothing new as we know well and for a long time in USA and in other advanced economies. (Sports cars are judged by the Party to be too petty bourgeois so the tax is equal to the sticker price.)

Saving for the longer term is a Chinese iron rule due to the vicissitudes the Chinese know they've suffered over thousands of years. That is, ruler after ruler has failed 'em. Chinese people know they need to look out for themselves. Chinese people know their rulers are out for themselves and that the only thing the rulers do is to buy time because time is money for 'em. More of it in fact.

The rulers number one is power, money, corruption. It is they who live for each day only to see how much they can steal and swindle from the people. And the people know this, which is central to why they save. The rulers in contrast live for today and for tomorrow when they know they'll have to cut and run. It's the Chinese people who take and have the long view. Their long view is that their leaders always fail them. And that they themselves have to be ready for the day it occurs.

That's the only "long game" in China. It's by the Chinese people themselves who know that every emperor fails 'em sooner or later and that they themselves have to be prepared and ready to look out for themselves and their own survival. China is actually and in fact a rather gruff dog eat dog jungle despite some 21st century prosperity for some of the people.

Those who are middle class prosperous never see the money, which is familiar to many of the middle classes of the world. That is, on payday the money comes in and it goes out same day, while nobody who gets paid ever sees it. Almost everyone who's middle class relates to this eh. After I explain that to Chinese they feel better but not any more secure or comfortable than they did before they got the word on it. Chinese wouldn't know this about the world outside of China if we didn't advise 'em. China's limited opening is in economics and business, not in finance and capital, not in information or data, not in knowledge and not of the world beyond its closed borders.

 

[Athanasius68]

That assumes Trump has a plan, which is not evident. He has no knowledge of international trade and doesn’t listen to those who do.

Here is an article about that:
Trump's trade war with China is all about national security

 

[Athanasius68]

???.. Since Trump got us out of TPP, and started the trade war with China I'm not sure I understand your question.

If this is an issue in 2020 it's all on Trump. I'm no fan of China, but they didn't start this.

The post to which I responded reminded people that there is an election next year. Is China willing to cause damage to itself to try to cause damage the USA to try to get Trump defeated?
Ie. Are the seeking to interfere in the election?

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

The post to which I responded reminded people that there is an election next year. Is China willing to cause damage to itself to try to cause damage the USA to try to get Trump defeated?
Ie. Are the seeking to interfere in the election?

No reason they should. Trump is causing plenty of damage to the GOP all by himself.

Again, he started this trade war.. It's all on him..

Trade wars are easy to win.. Remember?

 

[PirateMk1]

you openly interfere in Hong Kong and with the Uyghurs then that will be China's response ... it will not involve the EU we will have no part in it

the tariffs imposed by china was the opening shot on the new arms trade deal with Taipei early this week ... China said they would respond today is the opening shot from China

Once the nukes start flying everyone is involved whether they want to or not. Nuclear war is not currently optional once the birds start flying.
It becomes a use them or lose them proposition on very little hard data and mass confusion.

Its a two way street they dont like then too bad. Quite frankly the one China policy is stupid and should be ditched. We should make it very clear Taiwan is an ally.

 

[Memestrels]

Trump will raise tariffs on China in response to trade war retaliation

 

[Carleen]

Trade wars are easy to win.

Trump is not wrong about China. The problem is his thinking that he alone can fix it. He does not know how to deal on a global level. His lack of experience as a leader in a global economy is why he is not qualified to run the US.