Charlize Theron Is An Idiot

[vegas giants]

Interesting.. so you don't believe in a right to self defense?
or a right to self determination

I have a belief I have a right to defend myself. Quakers do not have that belief so the right is not universal.


Hmmm please point out where the right to own pornography is specifically spelled out, or the right to an abortion is specifically spelled out in a law.

There are many laws regarding abortion and pornography and they spell out exactly what is not allowed

 

[jaeger19]

There are many laws regarding abortion and pornography and they spell out exactly what is not allowed

Just as their are many laws regarding firearms and what constitutes self defense.

Whats your point? That if there is a law against my neighbor burning cross on my yard in protest of my interracial sons.. it means that my sons don't have the right to free speech?

 

[Lursa]

It is reasonable to have rules for who and who cannot vote in any given situation that might or might not involve:
--only members in good standing can vote
--only persons of a certain age can vote
--only taxpayers can vote
--only property owners can vote
--only a head of household can vote
--only those who register can vote
etc.

I can think of no reasonable or worthy rule that would specify when it is okay and when it is not okay for a person to defend himself/herself.

Works for me.

 

[vegas giants]

Just as their are many laws regarding firearms and what constitutes self defense.

Whats your point? That if there is a law against my neighbor burning cross on my yard in protest of my interracial sons.. it means that my sons don't have the right to free speech?

Uh ....no. You brought up pornography and abortion. We were discussing natural rights which do not exist outside of a belief system

 

[jaeger19]

Uh ....no. You brought up pornography and abortion. We were discussing natural rights which do not exist outside of a belief system

But we HAVE that belief system.. so they do exist.


that's how they can be violated by the government. If they exist only through government.. then the government cannot violate them.

 

[Lursa]

Actually the proof is that they ARE an inherent part of being homo sapien. Probably an inherent part of Homo neanderthalensis., and the rest of the Homo genus. Not to mention probably an inherent part of the Australopithecus genus. Its why such species have/had such complex social systems.

Where is the proof? Please provide sources for that statement.

And you have it backwards...the nature of our social hierarchical makeup is the reason that we consciously conceived of rights and other mechanisms to live together successfully.

We have consciousness...and we can think up all sorts of things. Consciousness is inherent in humans...and we thought up 'rights.'

 

[vegas giants]

But we HAVE that belief system.. so they do exist.


that's how they can be violated by the government. If they exist only through government.. then the government cannot violate them.

No you have that belief system. And you have beliefs on what self defense means. You do not speak for all Americans many of whom do not share your beliefs

 

[jaeger19]

Where is the proof? Please provide sources for that statement.

.'

Simple.. the idea of rights exist without lawful structures.. Its why you can think that its a violation of a woman's rights.. when she is forced to have a circumcision.. despite it being the law in her country or society.

And you have it backwards...the nature of our social hierarchical makeup is the reason that we consciously conceived of rights and other mechanisms to live together successfully.

Actually you have it backwards. The ability to conceive of rights and other mechanisms is how we managed to live together successfully.

your logic is that first we managed to live together successfully.. then we together devised rights and other mechanisms. It can't work that way. WE HAD to have the capacity to conceive of rights etc.. or we could not live together successfully to develop the societies that we have.

We have consciousness...and we can think up all sorts of things. Consciousness is inherent in humans...and we thought up 'rights

Yep.. BINGO.. and what is more natural than that?

 

[jaeger19]

No you have that belief system. And you have beliefs on what self defense means. You do not speak for all Americans many of whom do not share your beliefs

No we all have that belief system except for a select few of people that we call sociopaths and psychopaths.

And yep.. pretty much I do speak not only for all americans.. but pretty much all humans as well when it comes to self defense.

 

[vegas giants]

Simple.. the idea of rights exist without lawful structures.. Its why you can think that its a violation of a woman's rights.. when she is forced to have a circumcision.. despite it being the law in her country or society.



Actually you have it backwards. The ability to conceive of rights and other mechanisms is how we managed to live together successfully.

your logic is that first we managed to live together successfully.. then we together devised rights and other mechanisms. It can't work that way. WE HAD to have the capacity to conceive of rights etc.. or we could not live together successfully to develop the societies that we have.



Yep.. BINGO.. and what is more natural than that?

How you define these beliefs in natural rights can be different in every person. Some may believe you never have the right to use a gun in self defense

 

[jaeger19]

How you define these beliefs in natural rights can be different in every person. Some may believe you never have the right to use a gun in self defense

See what you said... use a gun IN SELF DEFENSE.

You just pointed out a right of self defense.

 

[vegas giants]

No we all have that belief system except for a select few of people that we call sociopaths and psychopaths.

And yep.. pretty much I do speak not only for all americans.. but pretty much all humans as well when it comes to self defense.

And you do not get to define self defense for others. Many can say it should never be done and others can say it should never be done with a weapon

 

[vegas giants]

See what you said... use a gun IN SELF DEFENSE.

You just pointed out a right of self defense.

Yes self defense is a belief some people have. And some don't and for some it does not include guns. There are a wide variety of beliefs

 

[jaeger19]

And you do not get to define self defense for others. Many can say it should never be done and others can say it should never be done with a weapon

Yet they ALL acknowledge that there is a right to self defense..

You just can't get around it Vegas.

 

[jaeger19]

Yes self defense is a belief some people have. And some don't and for some it does not include guns. There are a wide variety of beliefs

Sure.. there are differences. doesn;t mean that rights don't exist.

do you believe there is no right to free speech because some people believe that extends only to verbal speech and not to books, or computer material? I doubt you would make that argument.

Yet here you are arguing such.

Face facts.. you believe in natural rights whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not.

 

[vegas giants]

Yet they ALL acknowledge that there is a right to self defense..

You just can't get around it Vegas.

Absolutely we don't. Quakers, ghandi and many others never believed in the right to strike back in self defense. This is a simple fact

 

[vegas giants]

Sure.. there are differences. doesn;t mean that rights don't exist.

do you believe there is no right to free speech because some people believe that extends only to verbal speech and not to books, or computer material? I doubt you would make that argument.

Yet here you are arguing such.

Face facts.. you believe in natural rights whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not.

Face facts. Without law those beliefs are meaningless. I definitely do not share your views on self defense....does that mean my beliefs don't count?

 

[jaeger19]

Absolutely we don't. Quakers, ghandi and many others never believed in the right to strike back in self defense. This is a simple fact

The examples say you do.

And I don't know that quackers or Ghandi or others don't believe in the right to self defense.. I think you will find they believe in not exercising that right. when it pertains to their own political or religious beliefs.

 

[vegas giants]

The examples say you do.

And I don't know that quackers or Ghandi or others don't believe in the right to self defense.. I think you will find they believe in not exercising that right. when it pertains to their own political or religious beliefs.

Nope. They don't believe in it. I certainly do not believe what you believe. The only thing that matters is what is written down in law. The rest is just philosophy

 

[jaeger19]

Face facts. Without law those beliefs are meaningless. I definitely do not share your views on self defense....does that mean my beliefs don't count?

Fact facts.. without those belief in natural rights.. there would be no laws about protecting them

Interesting.. so you don't believe that there is a right to self defense? Yes or no.

 

[jaeger19]

Nope. They don't believe in it. I certainly do not believe what you believe. The only thing that matters is what is written down in law. The rest is just philosophy

Hmmm..

I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully--- Mahatma Gandhi

"Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission. The latter befits neither man nor woman. Under violence, there are many stages and varieties of bravery. Every man must judge this for himself. No other person can or has the right"--- Mahatma Gandhi

Source: The Mind of Mahatma Gandhi

 

[vegas giants]

Hmmm..


Source: The Mind of Mahatma Gandhi

That's nice. Millions do not share your views on self defense. I am one of them

Natural rights are as real as Santa Claus. Lol

 

[vegas giants]

Fact facts.. without those belief in natural rights.. there would be no laws about protecting them

Interesting.. so you don't believe that there is a right to self defense? Yes or no.

You get to define my answers for me? Awwwwww that is so precious. Lol

I do not believe what you believe

 

[Lursa]

Actually not.. in fact,,, many religions consider things like self defense.. "god given rights". These rights exist naturally because we believe they do. Its a belief system that you hold as well. Otherwise you would argue that the holocaust was not a violation of rights, that countries that lawfully enforce female circumcision are not violating rights of women etc.
.

Yes I know. Again you make my point.

and it's not a 'belief' system for me or the Constitution. It is the recognition of a need to control, protect, and conduct society in the manner we see fit. The FF's saw it a certain way. The Nazis saw it a different way. The way for them to control society was to decide Jews were sub-human and not recognize rights for them.

It's a foundation for a system of rules by which to run a society. And different societies recognize different rights. If our rights were naturally inherent...ALL societies would be led naturally to recognize the same ones.

 

[Lursa]

A
Not really. A natural right means that you have one DESPITE the law.

That is meaningless. I can say I have a right to walk around naked. That sure seems natural. That doesnt mean a society cannot create a structure that forbids me to do so. Or one that is conducive to doing so (some cultures do).

I can imagine that right all I want but unless the society I live in *recognizes* that right, I cannot do so.