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Character is Fate / Know Thyself

Seriously, you are quibbling over an example that I used for arguments sake of 10,000 years and your 50 years when you specifically said you were not discussing any timeline at all? You then repeat in this very post that that, '"Today's narcissism" or the present "era of narcissism" refers to the rise of narcissism over the last 50 years' and restate that you are making comparisons over time. Why are you embarrassed by your unjustified spiritual nostalgia? Are you waiting for the agrarian revolution so we can all get back to the garden?

You are busted Angel, it is obvious what your real agenda is here and, you think that you are being clever but, you aren't.
You're just making noise now in your posts, William. The OP consists of a series of questions flowing from two ancient pieces of wisdom. Your persistent focus on some extraneous issue of your own making -- time -- locates your participation in this discussion as persistently off-point. It's all a matter of record. You have yet to address the topic, sir. You're wasting my time and your own.
 
You're just making noise now in your posts, William. The OP consists of a series of questions flowing from two ancient pieces of wisdom. Your persistent focus on some extraneous issue of your own making -- time -- locates your participation in this discussion as persistently off-point. It's all a matter of record. You have yet to address the topic, sir. You're wasting my time and your own.

This is what you said Angel...

'What's more, my statements about narcissism are restricted solely to our times. Here's precisely what I posted as to narcissism...'.

Were you lying when you said this and then almost immediately contradicted it?
 
Ironically, that's all you ever do in your posts.

He desperately wants to flit onto another topic as usual but, I am not going to let this drop until we understand exactly what this narcissism is in context.
 
Ironically, that's all you ever do in your posts.
Your opinion is duly noted, Ma'am. And is itself ironic coming from someone we haven't heard more than one peep from. As I've told you twice now, just let me know what you don't understand and I'll do my best to clarify it for you.
 
This is what you said Angel...

'What's more, my statements about narcissism are restricted solely to our times. Here's precisely what I posted as to narcissism...'.

Were you lying when you said this and then almost immediately contradicted it?
"Our times" includes "the last 50 years" -- if anyone's "lying" here, it's you -- to yourself, if you really believe you're on point.
 
"Our times" includes "the last 50 years" -- if anyone's "lying" here, it's you -- to yourself, if you really believe you're on point.

Busted.

'Is this wisdom the answer to the narcissism of our times?' and 'Is Epochal Narcissism our answer to ancient wisdom?' is what you posted Angel.

So, is it your assertion that, 'Facebook and all the rest of social media, the selfie craze, the selfishness and greed behind the financial meltdown, the divorce rates, etc...' all existed in 1968? In other words are you contradicting yourself by trying to place a timeline on this, despite me taking your assertion in good faith. If you are saying that they didn't all exist in 1968 and the rise of these is correlated to increased narcissism then you are still faced with the same problem that I have already presented to you, despite the fact that I chose 10,000 years as an epoch in the absence of anything concrete that you would commit to. Present your evidence regarding narcissism as I have already asked you to.

What I am starting to consider is why you are running away from your obvious convictions?
 
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Busted.

'Is this wisdom the answer to the narcissism of our times?' and 'Is Epochal Narcissism our answer to ancient wisdom?' is what you posted Angel.

So, is it your assertion that, 'Facebook and all the rest of social media, the selfie craze, the selfishness and greed behind the financial meltdown, the divorce rates, etc...' all existed in 1968? In other words are you contradicting yourself by trying to place a timeline on this, despite me taking your assertion in good faith. If you are saying that they didn't all exist in 1968 and the rise of these is correlated to increased narcissism then you are still faced with the same problem that I have already presented to you, despite the fact that I chose 10,000 years as an epoch in the absence of anything concrete that you would commit to. Present your evidence regarding narcissism as I have already asked you to.

What I am starting to consider is why you are running away from your obvious convictions?
I posted links to articles on narcissism in our era. You're posting in bad faith, my friend. I'm fed up with your quibbling. If you care to post on the topic, I'll be glad to engage you. Otherwise, we're done here.
 
This is all very idealistic. I think it is too idealistic. Self-consciousness in some ways is a trick and true self-knowledge may be detrimental to human survival. Knowing the full truth about yourself may ultimately be negative if you don't like what you see. It doesn't follow that self-knowledge will lead to enlightenment and self-improvement. And the barriers to true self- knowledge may be too great for most to breach. It might be that lack of self-knowledge is a key to the survival of the human species and is a good thing. Mankind didn't get where it is by seeking enlightenment, it got there by surviving and adapting to any environment without hesitating to think if it was the right thing to do. Mankind did this through superior intellect which led to advances in science and technology. Mankind didn't philosophize its way to the top of the food chain.
There is much to consider in your post, David. I appreciate the effort.
Where to begin?
All right, first off, the meliorism and morality in your post seem to me extrapolations. The maxim "Know Thyself" is not moralistic or melioristic on its face, not as I read it at any rate.
I mean, there are only two words in the injunction, after all. Self-knowledge seems to me an end in itself, not a means to an end.
Idealistic? Well, yes, perhaps, but in a good sense, it seems to me.
Too idealistic? Well, the maxim appeared in the first great flowering of civilization, not in hunter-gatherer tribal society. It strikes me as an ideal that follows and follows from accomplished basic survival.
Moreover, I don't share your reverence for survival as the goal of humanity. Enlightenment seems to me the goal. Thus, we are wont to be talking past each other here.
Finally, you conflate self-consciousness and self-knowledge. Self-consciousness is a necessary condition for self-knowledge, but not a sufficient condition (as is implied in your argument from survival).
 
It might be that lack of self-knowledge is a key to the survival of the human species and is a good thing. Mankind didn't get where it is by seeking enlightenment, it got there by surviving and adapting to any environment without hesitating to think if it was the right thing to do. Mankind did this through superior intellect which led to advances in science and technology. Mankind didn't philosophize its way to the top of the food chain.
I was timed out of adding this.
Your physicalism offers survival as the highest good in human life. Accordingly, you go so far as to suggest that lacking self-knowledge is a good. To me this sounds wrong-headed in the extreme. I'm with Socrates in believing that "the unexamined life is not worth living." Survival for the sake of survival is a terribly diminished view of human life. The life physical reductionism offers is not worth living, and survival becomes nugatory. Without spiritual values to pursue, human life is no different from insect life. Not for me.
 
I posted links to articles on narcissism in our era. You're posting in bad faith, my friend. I'm fed up with your quibbling. If you care to post on the topic, I'll be glad to engage you. Otherwise, we're done here.
I don't read links or cut and pastes unless you derive something from them as a point or argument in your post. I have told you this before, I am debating you, not a ****ing library of quotes. Bad faith is not being clear with your argument and expecting others to trawl through your cut and pastes. When you are chatting with someone in a coffee shop do you put a load of books on the table and ask them to read them in order to try to figure out what you are saying?

If you want some more busting then come back any time, I'm not afraid to debate what I believe.
 
I was timed out of adding this.
Your physicalism offers survival as the highest good in human life. Accordingly, you go so far as to suggest that lacking self-knowledge is a good. To me this sounds wrong-headed in the extreme. I'm with Socrates in believing that "the unexamined life is not worth living." Survival for the sake of survival is a terribly diminished view of human life. The life physical reductionism offers is not worth living, and survival becomes nugatory. Without spiritual values to pursue, human life is no different from insect life. Not for me.
Physicalism deals with what actually is real rather than what we would like to be real. There is no less joy and wonder to be had from seeing reality as it actually is rather than making up crap to dress it up how we would like it to be.

When I gave up smoking, the thing that nailed it for me was understanding that I associated smoking with 'life events' but, when I was coaxed into stopping and thinking about it, I realised that I was just feeding an addiction and the smoking did not improve the experience. You can learn to do he same with an addiction to the supernatural.
 
Physicalism deals with what actually is real rather than what we would like to be real. There is no less joy and wonder to be had from seeing reality as it actually is rather than making up crap to dress it up how we would like it to be.
Hogwash.
When I gave up smoking, the thing that nailed it for me was understanding that I associated smoking with 'life events' but, when I was coaxed into stopping and thinking about it, I realised that I was just feeding an addiction and the smoking did not improve the experience. You can learn to do he same with an addiction to the supernatural.
Think about why you started smoking. Then think about why you stopped smoking.
These will be your fist baby-steps on the way toward self-knowledge.
"Joy and wonder" in that direction lie.
 
Hogwash.

Think about why you started smoking. Then think about why you stopped smoking.
These will be your fist baby-steps on the way toward self-knowledge.
"Joy and wonder" in that direction lie.
I will consider you my guru and life coach when you start showing your own wisdom in your posts.
 
You guys make the OP a Show and Tell. Unwittingly of course. But that is the very point, isn't it! Much obliged, gentlemen. ;)
Always happy to hand you your ass on a plate. Of course, you could avoid that by not posting evasive crap that is devoid of meaning.
 
Always happy to hand you your ass on a plate. Of course, you could avoid that by not posting evasive crap that is devoid of meaning.

He does use a lot of words to say nothing.
 
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The Two Main Barriers to Self Knowledge
According to self-perception theory, people come to know themselves by observing their states and behaviors during given situations over extended periods of time.... Self-blindness occurs when there is insufficient information of the personality or when the information available is incorrectly understood. Psychologist Simine Vazire’s work (2010) offers two barriers to self-knowledge: informational barriers and motivational barriers.

Informational barriers are those caused by lack of information or lack of quality information....Even if we are overtly offered information about ourselves, there’s no guarantee we will absorb any of it. Motivational barriers to self-knowledge occur when information of personality is available to someone, but that person unconsciously rejects it. This is perhaps due to ego-protecting desires, as we talked about in the case of narcissists.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mysteries-love/201503/the-two-main-barriers-self-knowledge
 
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Becoming more self-aware in the age of narcissism
The ancient Greek philosopher Socrates reportedly adopted the motto “Know thyself” to guide his search for a life of enlightenment and wisdom. This “commandment” has been passed on by various thinkers over time. But do we ever really know ourselves? And do others perhaps have a better awareness of us than we do?

Many psychologists and social commentators maintain that an intense focus on self is the order of the day, the popularity of social media and “selfies” being cited as evidence to back up their claim. Yet if this is true, the situation is not caused by new technology alone, but by what makes this technology seem so attractive.
Becoming more self-aware in the age of narcissism | The Independent

Metaperceptions: How Do You See Yourself?
To navigate the social universe, you need to know what others think of you—although the clearest view depends on how you see yourself.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200505/metaperceptions-how-do-you-see-yourself
 
He does use a lot of words to say nothing.

The sad (and predictable) bit is that he personifies 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'.

Constantly trying to sound off about things he's clearly heard/read a little about, but has no firm grasp of, and then exposing that ignorance by pretending otherwise.
 
He does use a lot of words to say nothing.

The sad (and predictable) bit is that he personifies 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'.

Constantly trying to sound off about things he's clearly heard/read a little about, but has no firm grasp of, and then exposing that ignorance by pretending otherwise.
Need I remind you gentlemen that I am not the topic under discussion in this thread?
The topic, in case you need reminding, is summed up thus:
Thesis: A man's character is his fate; therefore, know thyself.

Yes? No? Maybe? So?

If so, does this ancient wisdom offer an answer to what many have decried as the narcissism of our times?
 
Need I remind you gentlemen that I am not the topic under discussion in this thread?
The topic, in case you need reminding, is summed up thus:

No one stated you were. Self-flattery will get you nowhere.
 
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