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California Wildfires- a climate bellwether?

istodolez said:
You think Cali, Oregon and Washington are some backwoods places that need your guidance on how to run themselves? LOL...next time you go to the grocery store remember it's the folks in Cali who are providing you all that food at a price you can afford.

Cali is the 8th largest economy on the planet.

Let's see here....oh yeah! Virginia is MORE DEPENDENT ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT than Washington State or Cali! (SOURCE)

oopsy! Look who's talking!
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Nothing against the federal government; I worked there for decades.
Years of stupid forest management policies on the west coast now having consequences.
 
istodolez said:
Like I said, if you're in Virginia...you suck more out of the federal government than Cali or Wash state.

So, I guess at least we are doing better than you.

Why am I not surprised?
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Sorry, but I'm unconcerned about the distribution of federal dollars.
 
Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but I'm unconcerned about the distribution of federal dollars.
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Of course you are! You are one of the leading states sucking off the federal teat! Don't worry, the rest of the country will take care of you because you folks seem incapable of doing so for yourself.

Or, maybe, you could take the beam out of your own eye before finding the mote in ours.
 
istodolez said:
Of course you are! You are one of the leading states sucking off the federal teat! Don't worry, the rest of the country will take care of you because you folks seem incapable of doing so for yourself.

Or, maybe, you could take the beam out of your own eye before finding the mote in ours.
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We're fine, thanks. Meanwhile, some Californians offer comments.


Tucker Carlson: Democrats, fires and the climate misinformation campaign

In the hands of Democratic politicians, climate change is like systemic racism in the sky: You can’t see it, but it’s everywhere and it’s deadly. As many WUWT readers know, I’m right in the middle of the wildfires here in Northern California. While it has affected me with power, Internet, and other service outages, plus…

Continue reading →

". . . Republican state Senator Jim Nielsen and local councillor James Gallagher countered that the cause of recent devastating wildfires and electricity blackouts was “decades of bad policy enacted by Democrats, not climate change.”
“The excuse of climate change cannot be used to deflect from the fundamental failure to address the fuels build-up in our forests that are the cause of these devastating fires,” they said in a statement. “These same misguided policy decisions have led to rolling blackouts and an energy grid that is falling apart.”"
 
Jack Hays said:
We're fine, thanks. Meanwhile, some Californians offer comments.
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Clearly you're not. You need help. Maybe if you ran things better there the rest of the US wouldn't have to help you folks out with money.
 
Jack Hays said:
Still not germane.
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Jack, I started to find references that explained the complex interplay here in the West between climate and forest management. I live in a state where forest management is a very highly discussed topic. In fact, arguably, where I live has more expertise in this topic than anywhere in the country. And I was going to try to make a nuanced explanation of how forest management is not the sole cause of wildfires out here. Yes, it plays a role, and if you knew just ANYTHING about this topic you'd realize that the debates over clearing/letting wildfires run wild is long-standing. Going back more than a century. I was going to attempt to show how the research indicates that warming climate over the past few decades is causing earlier and longer fire seasons...and you can't blame the government of California or Washington state for THAT.

But then I remembered: Jack starts from his position and then only seeks to confirm his bias. Data, information, even basic knowledge is not valuable to him! He likes to hold forth on science topics despite having no background, not even basic high school math skills! So fretting over finding technical literature would be a waste of time!

Meanwhile I can't leave my house for 4 days because the air quality from the mass of fires in my area has made it extremely unhealthy and dangerous!. People not too far from me are losing everything...including their lives.

I'm living this stuff, here, Jack. And, as usual, you "know someone" who has seen a wildfire. Yeah.

Like I said, you should learn to sit some things out. Ignorance can be toxic.
 
Jack Hays said:
Nothing against the federal government; I worked there for decades.
Years of stupid forest management policies on the west coast now having consequences.
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Ah.

So the fires don’t start in National forests or BLM lands, just state forests?

Because there’s about 10x more federal land then state land in California.
 
Threegoofs said:
Ah.

So the fires don’t start in National forests or BLM lands, just state forests?

Because there’s about 10x more federal land then state land in California.
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Forest management is a hot topic (no pun intended) and, indeed, there have been raging debates over the past century as to how to ameliorate fire danger. But to think that this explosive, apocalyptic fire season is somehow solely due to state government mismanagement is to be irrational.

The reason I'm getting so tired of folks like Jack blathering on about this is because I'm currently LIVING IT IN REAL TIME. I haven't been able to leave the house for 4 days. The sky is yellow-orange every day all day. It smells like we are living in a campfire. One of my dogs won't even go outside voluntarily anymore. People a few miles away from us are losing everything...including their lives. If Jack thinks his special brand of ignorance is appropriate then he's got another think coming. His commentary is not needed.
 
istodolez said:
Jack, I started to find references that explained the complex interplay here in the West between climate and forest management. I live in a state where forest management is a very highly discussed topic. In fact, arguably, where I live has more expertise in this topic than anywhere in the country. And I was going to try to make a nuanced explanation of how forest management is not the sole cause of wildfires out here. Yes, it plays a role, and if you knew just ANYTHING about this topic you'd realize that the debates over clearing/letting wildfires run wild is long-standing. Going back more than a century. I was going to attempt to show how the research indicates that warming climate over the past few decades is causing earlier and longer fire seasons...and you can't blame the government of California or Washington state for THAT.

But then I remembered: Jack starts from his position and then only seeks to confirm his bias. Data, information, even basic knowledge is not valuable to him! He likes to hold forth on science topics despite having no background, not even basic high school math skills! So fretting over finding technical literature would be a waste of time!

Meanwhile I can't leave my house for 4 days because the air quality from the mass of fires in my area has made it extremely unhealthy and dangerous!. People not too far from me are losing everything...including their lives.

I'm living this stuff, here, Jack. And, as usual, you "know someone" who has seen a wildfire. Yeah.

Like I said, you should learn to sit some things out. Ignorance can be toxic.
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Our nephew has been fighting wildfires for a decade. He told us quite some time ago this scenario was coming. You reap what you sow.
 
Threegoofs said:
Ah.

So the fires don’t start in National forests or BLM lands, just state forests?

Because there’s about 10x more federal land then state land in California.
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States have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent Congress has given them such authority. As an example, Congress has to a large extent allowed states to exercise management authority over wildlife as a traditional area of state concern. Congress could give states authority to manage certain other activities, resources, or other aspects of federal lands. Congress also could give federal agencies authority to delegate or assign responsibility for aspects of federal land management to states or other partners

State Management of Federal Lands - Federation Of American ...

fas.org › sgp › crs › misc


PDF​


Dec 16, 2016 - overrides conflicting state laws under the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. ... What Is the Authority for the Federal Government to Manage Land, and What Are the ... National Forest System where, and establish periods when, ...
 
istodolez said:
Do you live out here? If not then please STFU.

Some of us are having a tough time right now and we don't really need people like you telling us what is what.
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Maybe if you had listened to those telling you what is what, you wouldn't be having a tough time.
 
Who would have thunk it? Dry diseased trees (wood) can actually burn in dry hot arid conditions, especially AFTER many, many, decades of forest mismanagement due to loony tree hugging liberals. First they mandate the demise of logging--- the people who were actually culling dead trees and MANAGING forests, and then they make every space with a pebble or stick a "national monument" where you aren't allowed to remove trees or hardly tread on the ground without some enviro-Nazis having a cow. Then they spend two decades forcing power companies to waste much of their available focus on shifting to "renewable" energy, rather than maintaining their current infrastructure or mitigating potential fuel issues near power lines. And what of all the ridiculous housing developments allowed to push further and further into grassy and wooded areas (which is only seasonally green for a short time anyway), and all because California just has to allow for MORE and MORE housing everywhere due the so called "housing crisis".

So all of this mismanagement and feel good green energy crap, and then they believe all of the conditions are just the fault of "climate change"???? Their mismanagement had nothing to do with it? LOL

Let me explain how land mismanagement works: Remember the great 'dust bowl" during the depression? Well, land mismanagement contributes to often bad results when combined with nature's fury. But it isn't so much about changing the climate by man, as man changing the CONDITIONS which then nature/climate exploits. But be not afraid you weak of heart and mind. Fires are HEALTHY for the forests, it clears out dead and diseased growth and then when the forest recovers there is MORE bio diversity than before. So stop trying to save every damn tree, let nature do it's thing. Meanwhile just know, that if you build millions of homes in the forests in a semi-arid climate you may end up losing some homes. Same way some brilliant people just have to build a beautiful home right on the cliffs overlooking the pacific ocean on ground that has been eroding and falling off in chucks into the sea for million of years. Duh!!!

Most of California's problems are management problems. What doesn't help that state is a super majority of liberal democrats. That is the REAL incendiary "FUEL" in that state. No ability for the opposition party to have an effective "fire break" against the madness. In Califorina the "two year olds" are running the pre school. Ironic how a year or so into the Gavin Newsom administration in that state, looking back to dopey Gov. "Moonbeam" Jerry Brown, he suddenly seems like he was at least the "adult in the room" as odd as that seems now.
 
Jack Hays said:
States have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent Congress has given them such authority. As an example, Congress has to a large extent allowed states to exercise management authority over wildlife as a traditional area of state concern. Congress could give states authority to manage certain other activities, resources, or other aspects of federal lands. Congress also could give federal agencies authority to delegate or assign responsibility for aspects of federal land management to states or other partners

State Management of Federal Lands - Federation Of American ...

fas.org › sgp › crs › misc


PDF​


Dec 16, 2016 - overrides conflicting state laws under the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. ... What Is the Authority for the Federal Government to Manage Land, and What Are the ... National Forest System where, and establish periods when, ...
Click to expand...

Well, there must be a huge movement to change that to make the Feds responsible.

Or no?

Or didn’t your firefighter nephew explain that part to you?
 
Threegoofs said:
The causes of the wildfires in California are very complex, and climate change probably plays a background role, although, much like other extreme weather events, one can’t say climate change directly caused a particular fire or even a particular bad or good year for fires.

It’s a long term issue, and one that deniers love to pretend doesn’t exist.

But here’s a nice signal of what is going to come in the US from climate change. Insurance companies are going to assess risks more carefully and just stop insuring properties.

Allstate is a company that has been pretty clear about the increased risks due to climate change.

Climate Change – Allstate

And now, it looks like they’re taking action- just simply not insuring people.

So here you go folks- the consequences of climate change on your pocketbook, which will soon be made much worse by climate denial.

Reality check below:

3264ccc9ef09bcff75fd5cf5764ba3c7.jpg
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Climate change has nothing to do with a carelessly tossed match, a campfire not properly extinquished, an lightning strike, an electrical transformer malfunction, or a gender reveal party gone bad with pyrotechnics. The truth is that climate change is a problem but nowhere near the problem claimed by the climate extremist.

Bjorn Lomborg Declares “False Alarm” on Climate Hysteria
 
Threegoofs said:
Ah yes.

They need to take the forest floors, just like in Finland.

[emoji849]
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Logging and controlled burns. You are parading your ignorance.

[h=3]They know how to prevent megafires[/h]Elizabeth Weil, ProRepublica
So what’s it like? “It’s just … well … it’s horrible. Horrible to see this happening when the science is so clear and has been clear for years. I suffer from Cassandra syndrome,” Ingalsbee said. “Every year I warn people: Disaster’s coming. We got to change. And no one listens. And then it happens.”
The pattern is a form of insanity: We keep doing overzealous fire suppression across California landscapes where the fire poses little risk to people and structures. As a result, wildland fuels keep building up.
This week we’ve seen both the second- and third-largest fires in California history. “The fire community, the progressives, are almost in a state of panic,” Ingalsbee said. There’s only one solution, the one we know yet still avoid. “We need to get good fire on the ground and whittle down some of that fuel load.”
 
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