Bus Driver Tells Passengers Only U.S. Citizens Can Ride

[Dittohead not!]

From 2008

Border checks at Anacortes ferry terminal | Islands' Sounder

LOL! That is asking them at the border. I wonder if they kept any Canadian children back then.... no, I suppose not.

 

[Casper]

It is pretty much confirmed as fact but if you want to attempt to refute my position with fact go right ahead.

So, to make your claim 100% clear, All Americans speak English without an Accent, right? You sure you want to take that stand????

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

So, Melania isn't an American.

Neither are cajun's according to this standard

 

[EMNofSeattle]

LOL! That is asking them at the border. I wonder if they kept any Canadian children back then.... no, I suppose not.

No, it's not. Re-read, the Anacortes ferry terminal has one route going to Sidney, BC but has another route going to the San Juan Islands, which is entirely domestic and doesn't go to Canada, the families referred to in the article were attempting to board domestic ferries that were assigned on routes to never leave the US.

 

[Dittohead not!]

No, it's not. Re-read, the Anacortes ferry terminal has one route going to Sidney, BC but has another route going to the San Juan Islands, which is entirely domestic and doesn't go to Canada, the families referred to in the article were attempting to board domestic ferries that were assigned on routes to never leave the US.

Then it makes no sense to even ask about their citizenship, does it? Why do you think they were asked?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Then it makes no sense to even ask about their citizenship, does it? Why do you think they were asked?

Because the border patrol can approach and ask anyone anything and they don't have to answer, but if they do and it's an answer that indicates they're here illegally then they get the connecting bracelets.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Because the border patrol can approach and ask anyone anything and they don't have to answer, but if they do and it's an answer that indicates they're here illegally then they get the connecting bracelets.

That sounds like a rather stupid policy to me.

A border patrol can ask, but the person being asked doesn't have to tell the truth or show ID or even say anything.

"Say, are you a citizen?"
"Que dice?" (what did he say?)
"Quiere saber si eres ciudadano." (He wants to know if you're a citizen.")
"Pues, se, soy ciudadano de Mexico." (Yes, I am a citizen of Mexico.")
He says he's a citizen.
OK, then, carry on.

That's almost as effective as Trump's wall, and a whole lot cheaper

 

[EMNofSeattle]

That sounds like a rather stupid policy to me.

A border patrol can ask, but the person being asked doesn't have to tell the truth or show ID or even say anything.

"Say, are you a citizen?"
"Que dice?" (what did he say?)
"Quiere saber si eres ciudadano." (He wants to know if you're a citizen.")
"Pues, se, soy ciudadano de Mexico." (Yes, I am a citizen of Mexico.")
He says he's a citizen.
OK, then, carry on.

That's almost as effective as Trump's wall, and a whole lot cheaper

It sounds really dumb on paper, but if you watch enough episodes of Cops you'd come to learn very fast that people have no real inhibition to talking themselves into trouble with law enforcement.

 

[Bodi]

So, to make your claim 100% clear, All Americans speak English without an Accent, right? You sure you want to take that stand????

Why not?

 

[OldFatGuy]

You have to prove your citizenship when you're asked and you're okay with that?
Government agents in the bus and train stations, line-ups, "Papers! Have your papers ready!"
Damn. Sounds like a scene in "The Great Escape".

Let's not confuse what exists with personal opinions. "Vas yore peppers?" makes for an almost caricaturistic Hollywood cliche, but take a close look at my last sentence quoted.

 

[Grand Mal]

Let's not confuse what exists with personal opinions. "Vas yore peppers?" makes for an almost caricaturistic Hollywood cliche, but take a close look at my last sentence quoted.

Yeah, I got it about the driver and customers making other choices next time. My thing is about the government agents. I'm just now learning that Americans have to prove their citizenship when told to. You, an American citizen, have to prove your citizenship.
It's a strange concept to a non-American.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Not sure I'd want to try putting that to a legal test in a court of law. Resident aliens riding a bus aren't the same thing as a gay couple asking a baker to bake a cake. And you might want to check to see just how narrow that bakery ruling really was.
SCOTUS didn't say that the bakery could refuse to bake a cake, they referred specifically to a "gay cake" if I am not mistaken.

Right to refuse to do business pertains more to customer conduct, as in a diner owner refusing to serve patrons who offend other customers by behavior or other factors.

I guess it depends on whether or not resident aliens fall into some kind of protected class.
I'm pretty sure citizenship is only a deciding factor when accessing specific services, most provided by the government.

Inadvertently, you hit on the underlying issue, lack of protections for resident aliens and those here for other reasons, whether tourists, students, whatever. Courts have swung both ways dependent upon specific situations. But this really is a set of issues to be addressed legislatively. Without impetus, that won't happen. You are right about the specificity of the Scotus decision, but when you read the opinion in its full, that same logic of law, or more accurately lack of protective laws, is the basis for the decision.

Adding to the issues, people forget, our Constitution is both a delineation of powers between Federal and State jurisdictions, as well as limitations on government actions inhibiting citizen critical behaviors against government. Therefore, assuming protective limitations for government actions against citizens doesn't necessarily translate to protections against the actions of individuals or businesses. Those must be addressed by separate legislation or case law. Non citizens who return to their own nations, are usually not going to stay here for a long, drawn out law action, thus no case law. Non citizens don't vote. No impetus for legislative actions.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Yeah, I got it about the driver and customers making other choices next time. My thing is about the government agents. I'm just now learning that Americans have to prove their citizenship when told to. You, an American citizen, have to prove your citizenship.
It's a strange concept to a non-American.

I've traveled extensively, mostly for my own pleasure. Wherever I was, proof of citizenship by locals could be demanded at anytime for any reason by authorities. As I recall, Spain was the country where I was most often asked for ID and a reason for being in Spain. However, local or national police were the most polite and respectful compared to any others I encountered elsewhere.

I've been asking around of friends and neighbors. None carry proof of American citizenship. I don't either. One woman showed me her library card. She's 86 and surrendered her driving license long ago.

 

[Grand Mal]

I've traveled extensively, mostly for my own pleasure. Wherever I was, proof of citizenship by locals could be demanded at anytime for any reason by authorities. As I recall, Spain was the country where I was most often asked for ID and a reason for being in Spain. However, local or national police were the most polite and respectful compared to any others I encountered elsewhere.

I've been asking around of friends and neighbors. None carry proof of American citizenship. I don't either. One woman showed me her library card. She's 86 and surrendered her driving license long ago.

So what if you had been getting on that bus in Maine and couldn't prove you were an American citizen?
It's a bizarre concept.

 

[OldFatGuy]

So what if you had been getting on that bus in Maine and couldn't prove you were an American citizen?
It's a bizarre concept.

Yet the law of the land allows for it. The thing is, and I don't think any would argue this, those who do the checking are going to be using profiles for determining who will be subject to demands for proof of citizenship. Whether by policy or by personal judgment, this will be the case. Bigotry will prevail.

My almost lifelong friend, Rafael is of Ecuadorian extraction. He looks it. His father was president of Ecuador for three weeks before being overthrown in a coup d'etat by the military. He and his wife walked here from Ecuador, carrying their three children. Were granted asylum at the border. His father worked as a public school janitor for 40 years until retiring, his mother as a seamstress for Broadway costumers. Rafael was born here, educated in parochial schools, never learned Spanish. Thanks to profiling he was often detained and questioned by police. They refused to believe he didn't know any Spanish. Eventually he took an adult ed Spanish language course so he could shorten the questioning. He always carried a copy of his birth certificate, his draft card, his Army discharge papers, and so forth. He was decorated three times for actions during the American war in Vietnam, saving the lives of other American soldiers. He was never bitter about the police stops, merely viewing them as an inconvenience, knowing people go through much worse in this life. He recently retired from a full, tenured professorship at St. John's University here in Queens NYC, blocks from where Donald Trump grew up. His specialty and teaching matter was American History, from the French Indian War until the Civil War, specializing in NYS, the other middle states, New England, the Ohio Valley and territorial Kentucky. The early American Frontier. He was never able to conquer the current American Frontier, bigotry. But, like me, he's a happy grandfather. And he cheats when we play cards with our friends. So do I. So do our friends. We play guitar together at least twice every week. His passion is rock & roll.

 

[Dittohead not!]

It sounds really dumb on paper, but if you watch enough episodes of Cops you'd come to learn very fast that people have no real inhibition to talking themselves into trouble with law enforcement.

I have watched "Cops" and know what you're talking about. I suppose it does work for stupid people and those who are high or drunk.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I've traveled extensively, mostly for my own pleasure. Wherever I was, proof of citizenship by locals could be demanded at anytime for any reason by authorities. As I recall, Spain was the country where I was most often asked for ID and a reason for being in Spain. However, local or national police were the most polite and respectful compared to any others I encountered elsewhere.

I've been asking around of friends and neighbors. None carry proof of American citizenship. I don't either. One woman showed me her library card. She's 86 and surrendered her driving license long ago.

Saying you can't ride a bus in Maine without being an American citizen is like saying you can't ride one in Madrid without being a citizen of Spain. Sure, tourists need to be able to show they're in the country they're visiting legally. They can't show they're a citizen of that country as they are not.

 

[americanwoman]

Bus Driver Tells Passengers Only U.S. Citizens Can Ride As Border Patrol Agent Looks On






So, you have to be an American citizen to ride a bus in the US, or is it just in Maine? I rode a bus in Canada without being a citizen of that nation.


And, I've seen busloads of people in Yosemite, all taking pictures like crazy and speaking Japanese. Were they actually American citizens?


Maybe it's only in Maine.

Maybe every citizen in American should get yellow stars on their clothes that way we know on sight who is one of us.

Yay freedom!

/s

 

[OldFatGuy]

Saying you can't ride a bus in Maine without being an American citizen is like saying you can't ride one in Madrid without being a citizen of Spain. Sure, tourists need to be able to show they're in the country they're visiting legally. They can't show they're a citizen of that country as they are not.

When I first visited Torremolinos, the Basques and other separatists were extremely active. Everyone was identity checked before boarding buses, trains, and even taxis. "Paranoia strikes deep." I don't have answers to the dilemma, only more questions. How do we keep people safe? Is public safety paramount to bigotry? I really don't know, yet I wish I did. Jumping to conclusions doesn't help.

I'm in my 70th year, but when I pick up a six pack at the supermarket this afternoon, I can guarantee the cashier will card me for a picture id. The market has that policy for all who buy beer and cigarettes. Ironically, my driver's license, my photo id, has not had the photo updated for more than 40 years. 40 years ago I wore a full beard. Today only a mustache. I had a full head of hair then, now thinning monumentally on top.

How much of a tourist attraction is Maine? Sometimes we have to choose our battlefields with care for gaining potential positive results. Bus drivers can certainly be nice people, yet sometimes, like everyone else, they too can act stupidly for the moment.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Maybe every citizen in American should get yellow stars on their clothes that way we know on sight who is one of us.

Yay freedom!

/s

As a combat vet I'll never wear an American flag pin on my lapel. It's too disingenuous. I didn't fight for the flag, I fought for survival and the survival of the men I served with. Everything else was BS.

 

[americanwoman]

As a combat vet I'll never wear an American flag pin on my lapel. It's too disingenuous. I didn't fight for the flag, I fought for survival and the survival of the men I served with. Everything else was BS.

Thank you for your service.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Thank you for your service.

Please don't. I find that statement as disingenuous as a flag pin. You mean well, but it has become an irritating cliche thanks to people who did their best to avoid service and say it from guilt.

 

[Mr Person]

Please don't. I find that statement as disingenuous as a flag pin. You mean well, but it has become an irritating cliche thanks to people who did their best to avoid service and say it from guilt.

You have no idea why someone may or may not have served. You have no idea when they were eligible to serve and what was going on at the time. You most certainly have no reason to assume someone is thanking you out of their own guilt or dishonesty (look up "disingenuous") rather than genuine gratitude.

Let's say the time frame was Vietnam. I wouldn't have wanted to go die in **** and mud just because Nixon extended a pointless war to serve his own ends, a war to prevent a dinky little country from being taken over by the next authoritarian regime. I wouldn't feel guilty for not volunteering for that, nor should I. Nobody should have had to go. That doesn't mean someone who didn't go can't be genuinely grateful that other people did have to go.

But that's kind of beside the point. Look at the sex of the poster you responded to. Look at the date she joined this site. Add two and two together. She wouldn't have been allowed in a combat position during her eligible years no matter how much she begged, even if there was a just war to fight at the time.





I can understand not wanting to be constantly thanked for service but....damn...

 

[OldFatGuy]

You have no idea why someone may or may not have served. You have no idea when they were eligible to serve and what was going on at the time. You most certainly have no reason to assume someone is thanking you out of their own guilt or dishonesty (look up "disingenuous") rather than genuine gratitude.

Let's say the time frame was Vietnam. I wouldn't have wanted to go die in **** and mud just because Nixon extended a pointless war to serve his own ends, a war to prevent a dinky little country from being taken over by the next authoritarian regime. I wouldn't feel guilty for not volunteering for that, nor should I. Nobody should have had to go. That doesn't mean someone who didn't go can't be genuinely grateful that other people did have to go.

But that's kind of beside the point. Look at the sex of the poster you responded to. Look at the date she joined this site. Add two and two together. She wouldn't have been allowed in a combat position during her eligible years no matter how much she begged, even if there was a just war to fight at the time.





I can understand not wanting to be constantly thanked for service but....damn...

I have every right to say what I believe. I earned that right with my blood. Do not assume I do not understand the language I use. To do so is an insult. For anyone who has experienced combat there is knowledge that gratitude by those who haven't shared the experience, there can never be gratitude.

The American war is SE Asia was not limited to Vietnam. There was nowhere in SE Asia where I and many others did not experience combat. Americans don't have a clue. Just as they have no clue American forces are at war throughout Africa today. There is no such thing as a "just war." That is propaganda for the home front. Not even WWII was a just war. It was a job to be done, forced by the hands of others instead of our own choice as a nation. That doesn't make it just, no matter the horrors presented by our enemies.

And no, I did not suggest that AW needed to serve. Learn how to read, not what you want others to be saying.

You have entered a realm whereby you have no frame of reference, absolutely no understanding. Step away.

I understand both your intents. This is a harsh reality I wish for no others, but it is what it is and will continue as long as mankind exists. WWII never ended, it merely metamorphosed to other theaters of combat and expanded. No different than the war to end all wars. Humans prefer to hide from reality. It's easier.

 

[Mr Person]

I have every right to say what I believe. I earned that right with my blood. Do not assume I do not understand the language I use. To do so is an insult. For anyone who has experienced combat there is knowledge that gratitude by those who haven't shared the experience, there can never be gratitude. .

Why do people flop into rights talk in these situations? I never said you didn't have a right to say what you did. I said that what you said was ****y and insulting to anyone who has thanked people for their service.

The American war is SE Asia was not limited to Vietnam. There was nowhere in SE Asia where I and many others did not experience combat. Americans don't have a clue. Just as they have no clue American forces are at war throughout Africa today.

Duh. Maybe you should "Learn how to read, not what you want others to be saying", as you said to me. The fact that I used one word in an example doesn't mean I don't know plenty about what was unofficially done, even if I wasn't there to personally witness it; other people who were there have had things to say.

And no, I did not suggest that AW needed to serve.

You told her not to thank you because it was as disingenuous as a flag pin, and then you made a general comment about people thanking you out of service out of "guilt" for not serving.:

Please don't. I find that statement as disingenuous as a flag pin. You mean well, but it has become an irritating cliche thanks to people who did their best to avoid service and say it from guilt.

And because of the way you wrote that, it wasn't just aimed at her. It was aimed at me and everyone else who has thanked people for their service. There are plenty of reasons having nothing to do with guilt for thanking people for serving and there are plenty of reasons not to voluntarily serve in these times.

Step away.

Nah man. The only time you have standing to say that is if someone like me tries to talk about the actual experience of combat. I've only read about it from people who have been there, so if I tried to lecture you on how it is then you would have place to tell me to step away. But then, I know that already, which is exactly why it isn't something you'll ever see me doing. But that's not what was going on here, is it?

If you want to talk about broader subjects like just and unjust wars, whether it's acceptable to thank veterans for service, and what it means when and if I do, then no...you don't get any expectation that I'll "step away" on command. The fact that you served doesn't mean your opinion is more valid on all subjects related to war. It just means that it's more valid in regards to discussions of actual combat and suffering. But again, that's not what was going on here.

You have entered a realm whereby you have no frame of reference, absolutely no understanding.

That I didn't specifically serve doesn't mean I have "absolutely no understanding" or "no frame of reference", let a lone no understanding of history and of who writes history and how they go about it and why they go about it in that fashion.

I understand both your intents. This is a harsh reality I wish for no others, but it is what it is and will continue as long as mankind exists. WWII never ended, it merely metamorphosed to other theaters of combat and expanded. No different than the war to end all wars. Humans prefer to hide from reality. It's easier.

No, you really don't understand my intent. You're carrying a long and deep grudge, maybe, but you certainly don't understand either of our intents - which are different, btw, almost certainly.

And WWII isn't what "metamorph[ized]". What changed is the way Americans saw their role in the world, and that changed for the worse. That is in fact why our wars (and covert interventions) hence have largely been ones of (terrible) choice, with terrible consequences in general.

Once more, one does not need to have been in actual combat to understand or talk about such things. Surviving hell doesn't mean someone else can't look at a war and say "you know....there really wasn't a reason to start that in the first place".




PS: WWII became "just" the moment another country attacked us out of the blue and its allies declared war. The second that happens, it becomes self-defense. For a long time since, our wars have generally been ones of choice, ditto our interventions.