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Bernie Sanders is probably going to win both the nomination and presidency...

Craig234 said:
The DNC does not control the voters. Hillary is a non-starter.
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I agree Hillary is a non starter but the DNC does have power. Sanders has said he was unsure if he would remain a D if he won. He might go back to being an independent. He has done it before in VT. I think the DNC would be furious at that and might attempt something. Plus many bundlers and donors have said they would refuse to support Sanders.

Billionaire Mega-Donor Haim Saban Says He Loves All 2020 Democrats—Except Bernie Sanders | Common Dreams News
 
Geoist said:
Democratic socialism is a type of socialism. Both are ideologies. Yes, there are socialist and democratic socialist parties,but subscribing to an ideology didn’t make him any less of a member of the Democratic Party. Did it make Ron Paul less of a Republican because he was a libertarian?
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He has never run as a Democrat in any general election.
 
Drawdown said:
Or maybe it is thanks to the Donald. They both are highly critical of free trade for essentially the same reasons.
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They are saying kinda sorta similar things but not from the same place at all. Donald's parroting talking points about 'bad deals' because he thinks deal-making is one of his skills he can sell on the political marketplace. f you listen you will find its just part of his con game, he doesn't even have his facts right. Donald has very few things he is sincere and consistent beyond his self interest. These 'trade deals' are not among them.

Sanders sees a much more pervasive toxin at work in globalization and corporate power. It's consistent with his world view. Sanders is truly an ideologue and his vision creates a consistent steady direction for goals. Donald just assumes if a contemporary politician that he knows came up with the deal, it can't compete with what he could do. He just has to be 'critical' and poke holes. He listens to a half baked Fox News pundit or reads something simplistic on blogsphere, and voila! he takes the wrapping off, and repackages it with his own brand-name, and tweets away! If you do your homework, you will find this strain of populist protectionist working man 'conservativism' has been around since the days of George Wallace and Pat Buchanan. Its Archie Bunker conservativism.

Donald is not a very smart man. Nothing he does is based on any principles or ideas or vision because he does not hold onto abstract thought very well. He sure is not about to be trapped into a consistent ideological approach to anything that might impede him from looking like a 'winner' or help his image.
 
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Dans La Lune said:
Bernie is steamrolling in fundraising without begging Trump’s billionaire donors for scraps. He has the most grassroots support, the most diverse support, and the loyal support. He’s extremely popular with the Democratic base. He has enthusiastic support. In addition, Bernie is popular in Trump country. Trump has nothing on Bernie because he’s not corrupt. He can’t run to to left of Sanders like he did Hillary. Short of Bernie’s ticker failing, I can’t envision a scenario in which he doesn’t whip Trump easily. He just has to wrap up this nomination. Let’s be real, Corporate Dems won’t take this lying down.

If beating Trump is priority #1, Bernie is the one to bet on. He has the resources, the popularity, the support, and is a social democrat in the mold of FDR.

YouTube
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Bernie has zero black support and he cant win the nomination or the presidency without it. So I hope you are right. Go Bernie!!
 
If the Democrats nominate Bernie Sanders then they will hand Donald Trump a second term. I invite doubters to review 1972 Nixon vs McGovern, the last time the Dems went hard left with their nominee.
 
GreatNews2night said:
Ask him. He's the one who calls himself an independent (that is, when he doesn't need the party to run).
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He doesn’t need the party to run, but he kind of needs the party if he has any hope to win. When was the last time an independent or third party won the presidency? The two party system is set up to make it almost impossible to win the presidency unless you are a billionaire. Anyways, Bernie owes the party nothing. He is responsible for more new Democratic than probably any other individual Democrat.
 
Jack Hays said:
He has never run as a Democrat in any general election.
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Because he didn’t need to. If he wants any prayer to make it into the White House he has to run through one of the two main parties. If he ran as Independent he’d just be a spoiler like Ralph Nader and we all know how that went over with the Democratic Party and its base.
 
Fletch said:
Bernie has zero black support and he cant win the nomination or the presidency without it. So I hope you are right. Go Bernie!!
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You misspelled Buttigieg. I assume you’re not lazy or stupid enough to have made that statement without researching it. 49% of Bernie Sanders supporters are white, compared to 56% of Biden’s.

https://theintercept.com/2019/03/06/bernie-sanders-black-voters-2020/

2020: Bernie Sanders’s real base is diverse — and very young - Vox

The Quiet Death of the “White Bernie Bro” Attack
 
pilot16 said:
Sanders has said he was unsure if he would remain a D if he won. He might go back to being an independent. He has done it before in VT.
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Provide a link. He hasn't 'done it in VT'. Has always registered as an independent in VT, which has to do with his campaigns there and is not relevant to his run for the presidency.

Plus many bundlers and donors have said they would refuse to support Sanders.
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Of course they have, and his position is, the Democratic Party should go without those corrupt pro-corporate pro-plutocracy donors who corrupt the party. They don't donate to get nothing back, and their opposition to Sanders shows they are not for the people.
 
Dans La Lune said:
You misspelled Buttigieg. I assume you’re not lazy or stupid enough to have made that statement without researching it. 49% of Bernie Sanders supporters are white, compared to 56% of Biden’s.
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Yup. Bernie in 2016 struggled some, because Hillary represented Obama, who strongly pushed Hillary who had worked for him, and they all knew her, while to many black voters Bernie was 'some white guy from Vermont they didn't know and had registered independent'. Bernie has worked hard and hugely increased his support from black voters.
 
Geoist said:
Because he didn’t need to. If he wants any prayer to make it into the White House he has to run through one of the two main parties. If he ran as Independent he’d just be a spoiler like Ralph Nader and we all know how that went over with the Democratic Party and its base.
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I'm not sure what your point is.
 
Jack Hays said:
I'm not sure what your point is.
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Point is the two party system gives Bernie no choice but to join one of the two parties to run for president.
 
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Geoist said:
He doesn’t need the party to run, but he kind of needs the party if he has any hope to win. When was the last time an independent or third party won the presidency? The two party system is set up to make it almost impossible to win the presidency unless you are a billionaire. Anyways, Bernie owes the party nothing. He is responsible for more new Democratic than probably any other individual Democrat.
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he does not need a party to run but he needs a party to get media attention on his socialist message and Sanders was originally all about getting his socialist democrat message out there, long before he had any dream of actually winning. . And not just any party will do. Neither the workers socialist party, nor the Green party got their candidates any media attention. It had to be the Democrat party and it had to be on an equal standing with the more conventional candidates and it had to be widely seen. That means he needed to get in those debates, and he needed to get on those democratic party ballots. This was a mutual and symbiotic relationship between two different living creatures. He got something he could never get anywhere else, or from anyone else, and the Democratic party got a shot in the arm in the form of public interest with this anti-establishment character, and a chance to broaden its base into Green party progressive territory and it had the perfect candidate to provide the illusion of real serious competition for Hillary, without the reality of real competition like Obama proved to be. Neither owes the other much long term loyalty, because neither showed much long term loyalty in this deal.

All Sanders owed the party faithful was what he promised the party as he was using it. I for one give him credit for keeping his promises. I think he behaved 'honorably' by refusing the siren call of any third party run, or Stein's offer to put him on that ticket and by endorsing and campaigning for the eventual nominee. That is why I call him a 'decent guy'
 
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Craig234 said:
Provide a link. He hasn't 'done it in VT'. Has always registered as an independent in VT, which has to do with his campaigns there and is not relevant to his run for the presidency.



Of course they have, and his position is, the Democratic Party should go without those corrupt pro-corporate pro-plutocracy donors who corrupt the party. They don't donate to get nothing back, and their opposition to Sanders shows they are not for the people.
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Bernie Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination in Vermont — but he won’t accept it if he wins.

The famously independent senator, who briefly joined the Democratic Party to run in the 2016 New Hampshire presidential primary only to un-enroll later, officially announced Monday that he would seek a third term in the Senate this fall. He also said that he’ll pull the same maneuver that he did in his 2006 and 2012 Senate races: Running as a Democrat, declining the nomination when he wins and then running as an independent.
Sanders to run as a Democrat — but not accept nomination - POLITICO
 
Geoist said:
Point is the two party system gives Bernie no choice but to join one of the two parties to run for president.
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But does he plan to remain there if he wins? If he wins does he go back to being an indie? He did that after 2016 he didnt stay a dem. Thats what makes some nervous.
 
pilot16 said:
But does he plan to remain there if he wins? If he wins does he go back to being an indie? He did that after 2016 he didnt stay a dem. Thats what makes some nervous.
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It really doesn’t matter whether he does or doesn’t stay with the party. He owes the DP nothing. As I and another poster mentioned earlier, they gave him the platform but he got them Democratic voters.
 
Geoist said:
It really doesn’t matter whether he does or doesn’t stay with the party. He owes the DP nothing. As I and another poster mentioned earlier, they gave him the platform but he got them Democratic voters.
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Oh forgot this issue. Except that I believe he also promised not to turn independent after he got nominated, we just never got far enough to ensure that he kept it. Sanders' campaign says he'll stay a Democrat after election - POLITICO

"Bernie Sanders will remain a member of the Democratic Party after his primary election against Hillary Clinton, his campaign manager said Wednesday.
The independent Vermont senator’s congressional website currently notes that Sanders is the “the longest serving independent member of Congress in American history,” though he caucuses with Democrats.
“If Sen. Sanders is not the nominee, will he stay in the Democratic Party forever now,” Bloomberg Politics’ Mark Halperin asked.
“Well, he is a Democrat. He’s said he’s a Democrat, and he’s gonna be [supporting] the Democratic nominee, whoever that is,” Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told Bloomberg Politics’ “With All Due Respect.”
“But he’s a member of the Democratic Party now for life?” Halperin pressed.
“Yes, he is,” Weaver said. “Yes, he is.”"

Now I can forgive a disparity between as its nominee then as president, and 'for life', easy enough, I don't expect lifetime loyalty for a four year commitment.




Our party's presidential nominee is supposed to be its standard-bearer. He is supposed to be loyal to his party, a supporter of its vision, its aspirations and its future.
He is supposed to mentor young Dems, and help the party with fundraising, and campaign to help its candidates down-ballot and in Congress and that is a huge reason why I was 100% sure that the party would never pick him as the nominee. He was not a real Democrat but he had better at least pretend to be for the four years he is in office and work towards those goals. There is no way in hell Dems will nominate a man as their party's standard-bearer, if he won't even stay its standard-bearer while in the office he campaign for as a Dem. That's absurd.
 
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Dans La Lune said:
Bernie is steamrolling in fundraising without begging Trump’s billionaire donors for scraps. He has the most grassroots support, the most diverse support, and the loyal support. He’s extremely popular with the Democratic base. He has enthusiastic support. In addition, Bernie is popular in Trump country. Trump has nothing on Bernie because he’s not corrupt. He can’t run to to left of Sanders like he did Hillary. Short of Bernie’s ticker failing, I can’t envision a scenario in which he doesn’t whip Trump easily. He just has to wrap up this nomination. Let’s be real, Corporate Dems won’t take this lying down.

If beating Trump is priority #1, Bernie is the one to bet on. He has the resources, the popularity, the support, and is a social democrat in the mold of FDR.

YouTube
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This is between Biden & Bernie. Obama better endorse Biden quickly for Biden to solidify the black support he
currently has as Bernie is just killing it with the young voters and surprisingly the Latinos. Bernie is the only
democrat IMO who has a real chance in the general. He's authentic & does not pander, voters like that!

In two of the three Latino heavy states:
Bernie leads in the latest poll in California 26%, Warren 23%, Biden 19%.
Sanders' strongest demographic groups are men (36%), voters under the age of 49 and Latinos (37%).
Biden retains his solid black support with 47%
 
swing_voter said:
Economist 12/28 - 12/31 29 19 18 8 3 4 3 2 3 2 1 0 Biden +10
M. Consult 12/23 - 12/29 32 21 14 8 6 3 4 3 1 3 1 1 Biden +11
Emerson 12/15 - 12/17 32 25 12 8 3 2 6 2 4 2 0 1 Biden +7
NBC/WSJ 12/14 - 12/17 28 21 18 9 4 5 3 2 2 1 1 0 Biden +7
CNN 12/12 - 12/15 26 20 16 8 5 3 3 3 1 1 2 1 Biden +6
The Hill 12/13 - 12/14 29 13 13 5 5 3 3 2 1 3 4 2 Biden +16
Quinnipiac 12/11 - 12/15 30 16 17 9 7 3 3 2 1 1 1 0 Biden +13
USA Today 12/10 - 12/14 23 14 13 8 6 3 2 3 1 1 0 0 Biden +9
NPR/PBS 12/9 - 12/11 24 22 17 13 4 4 5 4 1 0 1 0 Biden +2
FOX News 12/8 - 12/11 30 20 13 7 5 5 3 2 3 1 1 0 Biden +10


Biden is almost twice ahead of Bernie.

Keep dreaming though.
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Bernie is ahead in New Hampshire & Iowa, just pulled ahead in the most recent California & New Mexico polls & has
all the momentum. IMO Bernie will have the most delegates going in to convention but not enough to seal the deal.
It will be a brokered convention, if Warren continues to fade and she releases her delegates two thirds
will be Bernie's for the taking!

Soon Mayor Pete,, Klobucher & Bloomberg will eat into current Biden mainstream supporters & Booker is
seeking voters in Biden's Black Base.
 
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slick said:
Bernie is the only democrat IMO who has a real chance in the general. He's authentic & does not pander, voters like that!
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Bernie doesn't pander? I guess that's true if you ignore his endless promises of free stuff in exchange for your vote.
 
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