Bernie Sanders is probably going to win both the nomination and presidency...

[veritas1]

I will, and will laugh uproariously with overwhelmingly devastating Democratic victory.

Nobody wants your socialist lunacy. You'll see.

 

[Jack Hays]

Really, in what Socialist Party would I find him listed as a member?

Actually he was always officially posted as Independent. He runs for the Democrat nomination in the years when he is running for President. In fact, he has already filed to run as an Independent for Senate in the 2024 election as he did in 2018. Actually if I were a Dem I would be getting bored with this nonsense. Either commit to the Party or not. Stop dancing back and forth over the line.

Bernie's supporters might not like this. But its the way Party politics works. If it comes down to it, unless Bernie clearly exhibits that he can beat Trump, the Dems wlll find a way to knock him out before he gains the nomination.

Time for the Dems to have an honest discussion with each other about what they want to do. MY guess is that they won't, letting this mess get all the way to the Convention before even trying to address it. If they allow Bernie to run at the top of the ticket as a self avowed Democratic Socialist he could take the entire Party down around his ears making AOC a very very lonely girl in the House. How would Tom Perez explain that one? "Lets see Tom, you let a guy that only files as a Democrat for his runs at the Presidency to take the whole Party down around his ears. Want to explain that one Tom."

The GOP has simply pocketed Bernie's Democratic Socialist claim made in June. The GOP won't pull that one out of their pocket unless Bernie is actually the nominee and then they will blitz him with it using all that campaign dough they piled up. The gutless Dems buried Bernie's announcement deep. There were a few one liners in one news cycle the day he self avowed as a Democratic Socialist and that has been it. The Dems just don't want to deal with it.

A self-described democratic socialist, Bernie Sanders is an independent senator from Vermont who has served in government since 1981. In 2016, Sanders campaigned for the Presidency of the United States in the Democratic primaries. His proposed policies emphasize reversing economic inequality.

[h=3]Political positions of Bernie Sanders - Wikipedia[/h]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Political_positions_of_Bernie_Sanders
[/URL]

 

[GreatNews2night]

How is he not a Democrat?

Ask him. He's the one who calls himself an independent (that is, when he doesn't need the party to run).

 

[jnug]

A self-described democratic socialist, Bernie Sanders is an independent senator from Vermont who has served in government since 1981. In 2016, Sanders campaigned for the Presidency of the United States in the Democratic primaries. His proposed policies emphasize reversing economic inequality.

[h=3]Political positions of Bernie Sanders - Wikipedia[/h]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Political_positions_of_Bernie_Sanders
[/URL]

That is the statement from Bernie I was talking about. Heard any commentary on it from either side of the aisle since he made it? I haven't. Any discussion within Dem circles regarding the dif between a Social Democrat and a Democratic Socialist? Dems don't want to touch it. Too white hot.

I have been trying to raise the discussion here in this forum to save the Dems from themselves. You know, that well worn saw about Dems snatching defeat from the clutches of victory. The usual response I get is "there is no difference". Yea.....Ah-huh

If you read your own Wiki link you will find that even actual full time Democratic socialists have trouble with Bernie's position. But they would tickle themselves senseless if they could actually get somebody self avowed as Democratic Socialist to the WH. Problem is THEY CAN'T

 

[Jack Hays]

That is the statement from Bernie I was talking about. Heard any commentary on it from either side of the aisle since he made it? I haven't. Any discussion within Dem circles regarding the dif between a Social Democrat and a Democratic Socialist? Dems don't want to touch it. Too white hot.

I have been trying to raise the discussion here in this forum to save the Dems from themselves. You know, that well warn saw about Dems snatching defeat from the clutches of victory. The usual response I get is "there is no difference".

Yea.....Ah-huh

Good luck.

 

[jamesbyoung]

Nobody wants your socialist lunacy. You'll see.

Socialist lunacy? Both parties are progressive Big Government parties, veritas1. What America does not want is sort of ultra conservatism or libertarianism.

 

[jamesbyoung]

GOPers are Big Government progressives who want BG to affect changes politically (ending direct election of senators), governmentally (making abortion illegal), economically (reduce the Fed Reserve role), and so forth.

The GOP is Democratic Lite, nothing more.

 

[ashurbanipal]

I don't care what record he broke. I countered the O/P's claim that Trump's donors are billionaires. In fact, there has been and continues to be a surge of small donors pouring in, plus he's broken fund raising records.

For what the OP says to be correct, Trump has to have received donations by only 2 billionaires. It seems pretty likely that he has.

 

[veritas1]

Socialist lunacy? Both parties are progressive Big Government parties, veritas1. What America does not want is sort of ultra conservatism or libertarianism.

What they don't want is to pay for the healthcare and education of people who broke our laws and sneaked in here. What they don't want is to keep championing lawbreakers. What they don't want is to have a porous border. What they don't want is to attack and weaken law enforcement. What they don't want are seas of homeless people being subsidized to remain homeless. What they don't want is to mindlessly demonize the fossil fuel industry which is largely driving the economy. What they don't want is to be told that there are 3 or more genders and that they are bad people for pointing out that silliness. What they don't want is to endlessly be told how bad they are if they happen to be white, male or Christian.

This is why the Democrats will lose. They have all, by and large, embraced the above ideas.

 

[btthegreat]

That is because he has the existing database of donors from last time he hits up. A dollar donation is all they need. That is why Steyer who is self-financing (allegedly) still has to get dollar donors to meet the DNC debate requirements.

I like him well enough. He's a decent, honest and very tenacious character. As important as his socialist message is, it does get tiresome after awhile. Socialists often have that problem, a bit 'johnny-one-note' about that whole re-distribution anti- corporate theme. He's doing better than I though a few months ago, but I don't think he will win.

 

[jamesbyoung]

What they don't want is to pay for the healthcare and education of people who broke our laws and sneaked in here. What they don't want is to keep championing lawbreakers. What they don't want is to have a porous border. What they don't want is to attack and weaken law enforcement. What they don't want are seas of homeless people being subsidized to remain homeless. What they don't want is to mindlessly demonize the fossil fuel industry which is largely driving the economy. What they don't want is to be told that there are 3 or more genders and that they are bad people for pointing out that silliness. What they don't want is to endlessly be told how bad they are if they happen to be white, male or Christian.

This is why the Democrats will lose. They have all, by and large, embraced the above ideas.

Those are your opinions without any support. America generally wants national health care. America wants Trump to broker with the Dems a sane immigration policy, which we don't have. No one is weakening law enforcements. No one is subsidizing the homeless to remain homeless. The energy industry is not driving the economy, in fact it is having far less impact on it. No one gives a crap that you are homophobic. If you are white, male, and Christian (which I am), if you think you are being demonized: take a look at yourself.

You keep this up, this whining pity party, you with the GOP as a whole are going to have a very unhappy November election.

 

[Craig234]

I dont see the DNC allowing it. I just dont. I have a friend who is hoping for a contested convention so the DNC can bring in Hillary instead of those running. She really thinks this is her time.

The DNC does not control the voters. Hillary is a non-starter.

 

[Craig234]

Really, in what Socialist Party would I find him listed as a member?

Actually he was always officially posted as Independent. He runs for the Democrat nomination in the years when he is running for President. In fact, he has already filed to run as an Independent for Senate in the 2024 election as he did in 2018. Actually if I were a Dem I would be getting bored with this nonsense. Either commit to the Party or not. Stop dancing back and forth over the line.

Bernie's supporters might not like this. But its the way Party politics works. If it comes down to it, unless Bernie clearly exhibits that he can beat Trump, the Dems wlll find a way to knock him out before he gains the nomination.

Time for the Dems to have an honest discussion with each other about what they want to do. MY guess is that they won't, letting this mess get all the way to the Convention before even trying to address it. If they allow Bernie to run at the top of the ticket as a self avowed Democratic Socialist he could take the entire Party down around his ears making AOC a very very lonely girl in the House. How would Tom Perez explain that one? "Lets see Tom, you let a guy that only files as a Democrat for his runs at the Presidency to take the whole Party down around his ears. Want to explain that one Tom."

The GOP has simply pocketed Bernie's Democratic Socialist claim made in June. The GOP won't pull that one out of their pocket unless Bernie is actually the nominee and then they will blitz him with it using all that campaign dough they piled up. The gutless Dems buried Bernie's announcement deep. There were a few one liners in one news cycle the day he self avowed as a Democratic Socialist and that has been it. The Dems just don't want to deal with it.

'Democratic Socialist' as Bernie uses the phrase basically means "FDR policies". Our country's problem is plutocracy since Reagan and Bernie is the fix.

 

[Drawdown]

I like him well enough. He's a decent, honest and very tenacious character. As important as his socialist message is, it does get tiresome after awhile. Socialists often have that problem, a bit 'johnny-one-note' about that whole re-distribution anti- corporate theme. He's doing better than I though a few months ago, but I don't think he will win.

I am not sure his message is important though because he is "johnny-one-note". This robin hood version of socialism in America isn't really a solution even if enacted. It doesn't address the problems, just the effects so it isn't politically sustainable. Giving people more money to buy from Amazon doesn't address the problems created by the Amazon empire.

 

[Luther]

Bernie is steamrolling in fundraising without begging Trump’s billionaire donors for scraps. He has the most grassroots support, the most diverse support, and the loyal support. He’s extremely popular with the Democratic base. He has enthusiastic support. In addition, Bernie is popular in Trump country. Trump has nothing on Bernie because he’s not corrupt. He can’t run to to left of Sanders like he did Hillary. Short of Bernie’s ticker failing, I can’t envision a scenario in which he doesn’t whip Trump easily. He just has to wrap up this nomination. Let’s be real, Corporate Dems won’t take this lying down.

If beating Trump is priority #1, Bernie is the one to bet on. He has the resources, the popularity, the support, and is a social democrat in the mold of FDR.

YouTube

He has the most grassroots support, the most diverse support,

Thanks for the laugh

 

[Luther]

Bernie broke the record for most individual donors and is doing it in a crowded field.

Like in 2016?(LOL)

 

[Dans La Lune]

Thanks for the laugh

What’s so funny?

 

[Luther]

What’s so funny?

When you said Sanders had the most "diverse" support(LOL)

 

[btthegreat]

I am not sure his message is important though because he is "johnny-one-note". This robin hood version of socialism in America isn't really a solution even if enacted. It doesn't address the problems, just the effects so it isn't politically sustainable. Giving people more money to buy from Amazon doesn't address the problems created by the Amazon empire.

The thing is we don't have to listen to the whole opera. That note can come in very handy from time to time. Its a very important note on the musical scale, and in the American song book. I think Americans won't find it as shrill as they used to and that is thanks to Bernie.

 

[Drawdown]

The thing is we don't have to listen to the whole opera. That note can come in very handy from time to time. Its a very important note on the musical scale, and in the American song book. I think Americans won't find it as shrill as they used to and that is thanks to Bernie.

Or maybe it is thanks to the Donald. They both are highly critical of free trade for essentially the same reasons.

 

[munkle]

Bernie and his brats will get stomped in the Midwest, including losing Minnesota in addition to not flipping any trump Midwest states. Down-ballot carnage may be epic.

Add Virginia and at least Nevada from the Southwest to the bern’s losses. He may not even carry New Hampshire or Maine either. Payback will be a bitch to this backstabber.

He won Kansas, Nebraska and many other Midwest states in 2016 primaries. They already know him.

 

[OscarLevant]

Bernie is steamrolling in fundraising without begging Trump’s billionaire donors for scraps. He has the most grassroots support, the most diverse support, and the loyal support. He’s extremely popular with the Democratic base. He has enthusiastic support. In addition, Bernie is popular in Trump country. Trump has nothing on Bernie because he’s not corrupt. He can’t run to to left of Sanders like he did Hillary. Short of Bernie’s ticker failing, I can’t envision a scenario in which he doesn’t whip Trump easily. He just has to wrap up this nomination. Let’s be real, Corporate Dems won’t take this lying down.

If beating Trump is priority #1, Bernie is the one to bet on. He has the resources, the popularity, the support, and is a social democrat in the mold of FDR.

YouTube

My money is on BERNIE SANDERS.

Bernie will CREAM Trump. The people will see right through Trump's deceptive and lying tactics, his bag of tricks are tired and old, and he's losing it.

 

[yankintx]

Bernie is steamrolling in fundraising without begging Trump’s billionaire donors for scraps. He has the most grassroots support, the most diverse support, and the loyal support. He’s extremely popular with the Democratic base. He has enthusiastic support. In addition, Bernie is popular in Trump country. Trump has nothing on Bernie because he’s not corrupt. He can’t run to to left of Sanders like he did Hillary. Short of Bernie’s ticker failing, I can’t envision a scenario in which he doesn’t whip Trump easily. He just has to wrap up this nomination. Let’s be real, Corporate Dems won’t take this lying down.

If beating Trump is priority #1, Bernie is the one to bet on. He has the resources, the popularity, the support, and is a social democrat in the mold of FDR.

YouTube

I did not support Sanders in 2016, my mistake. I will not make that mistake in 2020, this country needs leadership with integrity, and that is not Trump.

 

[OscarLevant]

Economist 12/28 - 12/31 29 19 18 8 3 4 3 2 3 2 1 0 Biden +10
M. Consult 12/23 - 12/29 32 21 14 8 6 3 4 3 1 3 1 1 Biden +11
Emerson 12/15 - 12/17 32 25 12 8 3 2 6 2 4 2 0 1 Biden +7
NBC/WSJ 12/14 - 12/17 28 21 18 9 4 5 3 2 2 1 1 0 Biden +7
CNN 12/12 - 12/15 26 20 16 8 5 3 3 3 1 1 2 1 Biden +6
The Hill 12/13 - 12/14 29 13 13 5 5 3 3 2 1 3 4 2 Biden +16
Quinnipiac 12/11 - 12/15 30 16 17 9 7 3 3 2 1 1 1 0 Biden +13
USA Today 12/10 - 12/14 23 14 13 8 6 3 2 3 1 1 0 0 Biden +9
NPR/PBS 12/9 - 12/11 24 22 17 13 4 4 5 4 1 0 1 0 Biden +2
FOX News 12/8 - 12/11 30 20 13 7 5 5 3 2 3 1 1 0 Biden +10


Biden is almost twice ahead of Bernie.

Keep dreaming though.

I"d really like to know what the poll question was for those surveys.

An improperly framed question can produce a misleading result.


For example, a question I would not trust would be:


Whom do you believe will be the best candidate most likely to beat Trump?


The reason that is not a good question because the answer might be different than who they actually vote for.


See? The only proof of who will beat Trump is whom they actually will vote for.


So, valid survey would go like this:


Whom would you vote for if the following were the candidates in 2020

Pick one of each of the following:

Biden vs Trump

Sanders vs Trump

Warren vs Trump

Compare the results.

What I want to know is whom they would actually vote for, NOT whom they "believe" or "feel" is "most likely to beat Trump".

 

[Geoist]

He describes himself as a "Democratic Socialist."

Sanders joined Vermont's Liberty Union Party in 1971 and was a candidate for several offices, never coming close to winning election. He became party chairman,[SUP][57][/SUP] but quit in 1977 to become an independent.[SUP][282][/SUP] In 1980 he served as an elector for the Socialist Workers Party.[SUP][283][/SUP]
In 1981, Sanders ran as an independent for mayor of Burlington, Vermont, and defeated the Democratic incumbent. He would later be reelected three times.[SUP][284][/SUP] Sanders first ran for the US House of Representatives in 1988 and for the US Senate in 2006, each time adopting a strategy of winning the Democratic Party primary, thereby eliminating Democratic challengers, and then running as an independent in the general election.[SUP][285][/SUP] He continued this strategy through his reelection in the 2018 United States Senate election in Vermont.[SUP][286][/SUP] Throughout his tenure in Congress, he has been listed as an independent. He caucused with the Congressional Progressive Caucus in the House[SUP][15][/SUP] while refusing to join the Democratic caucus or party,[SUP][82][/SUP] and caucuses with the Democrats in the Senate.[SUP][154][/SUP]
Sanders's campaigns for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination have created some controversy about his affiliation. On the 2016 campaign trail, he affirmed that he was a Democrat running for the Democratic nomination.[SUP][287][/SUP] But both his Senate website and press materials continued to label him as an "independent" during and after the campaign.[SUP][288][/SUP][SUP][289][/SUP] His party status became ambiguous once again in March 2019 when he signed a formal "loyalty pledge" to the Democratic Party stating that he is a member of the party and will serve as a Democrat if elected president. He signed the pledge the day after he signed paperwork to run as an independent for reelection to the Senate in 2024.[SUP][1][/SUP]

Democratic socialism is a type of socialism. Both are ideologies. Yes, there are socialist and democratic socialist parties,but subscribing to an ideology didn’t make him any less of a member of the Democratic Party. Did it make Ron Paul less of a Republican because he was a libertarian?