Because People Getting to Keep Their Money Is the Worst Thing Ever

[tres borrachos]

Tax breaks leave more money for corporations to reinvest, hire more people, and produce more and improved goods/services.

And they are making record profits now, and unemployment is at a decades-low number. I'm curious how many times I have to post that before you address it.

 

[apdst]

I don't think corporations need a tax break right now. You do. We disagree. I think working Americans need a tax break.

I didn't say that anything is hurting me personally. Just like the ACA didn't hurt me personally.

One more time (maybe you'll answer). If corporations are posting record profits (a fact), the stock market is at a record level (a fact), and unemployment is at a decades low (a fact), why the need to cut corporate tax rates permanently, and extend individual tax rate cuts only temporarily?

So we can maintain that growth.

 

[apdst]

And they are making record profits now, and unemployment is at a decades-low number. I'm curious how many times I have to post that before you address it.

Good! Let's keep fueling that growth.

 

[polgara]

I don't think corporations need a tax break right now. You do. We disagree. I think working Americans need a tax break.

I didn't say that anything is hurting me personally. Just like the ACA didn't hurt me personally.

One more time (maybe you'll answer). If corporations are posting record profits (a fact), the stock market is at a record level (a fact), and unemployment is at a decades low (a fact), why the need to cut corporate tax rates permanently, and extend individual tax rate cuts only temporarily?

Greetings, tres borrachos. :2wave:

Great points made! :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[DamnYankee]

And they are making record profits now, and unemployment is at a decades-low number. I'm curious how many times I have to post that before you address it.

See post 24.

 

[poweRob]

Tax Reform Angst on the Left

Liberals compare the tax bill to the Fugitive Slave Act, using terms like "corrupt", "budget busting", and "cruel".

Because it is.

So it must be a really good bill.

Pretty much sums up how reactionary ignorant right-wingers make policy. "If libs hate it then I love it no matter wut!"

Liberals regard any effort to reduce the amount of money that is being taken from producers and given to their non-productive friends as "cruel" and evil, hence the comparison to the Fugitive Slave Act, because it was, you know, evil. Other than being evil, and Republicans voting for it even thought they had to know it's evil, there's no connection. Because boosting the economy by cutting taxes and regulations? That's just nonsense.

It's a macro-economy. You wouldn't understand.

 

[tres borrachos]

Greetings, tres borrachos. :2wave:

Great points made! :thumbs: :thumbs:

Hi Pol. I'm just asking the question. I understand why Reagan did it in 1981 (you're about my age so you probably do, too). I don't see the same need today.

This isn't going to help the GOP at a time they badly need help to maintain their majorities.

 

[poweRob]

How dare those two opinion writers voice their opinions. And we all know that two opinion writers equal "liberals" and "the left".

Guess what? Many of us on the right who are not liberals also know this bill is terrible. It does nothing for most middle class Americans, and it does nothing to "simplify" the tax code.

Corporations are posting record profits, year over year. Unemployment is at a decades-low. Stock market is at record highs. Trump brags about this daily. Why does the economy need to be "boosted" exactly?

Replace "boosted" With "looted" and there's the answer. We are already on a bubble and this is bubble making on steroids. On top of the fact that this tax bill will make the Panama Papers Great Again!. This will expedite money streamlined upwards which then will be used in investments that make them huge $'s in capital gains which will receive a massive tax cut and then the profits will be hidden in offshore tax havens to avoid income tax... all while adding a trillion to the deficit. Something republicans only care about when a dem is president. So frustrating.

These asshats basically just gave themselves and their donors the US treasury and expect the working class to pay for it.

 

[Critter7r]

Don't forget the disability claims that soared during the Obama years after they lowered the bar for people to qualify. They stopped counting all of them too. The bad joke during those years is if you had a hangnail you can get disability. Social Security disability is one of the worst programs riddled with fraud. It's a shame because there are those deserving and to further protect it for them the fraud needs to be dealt with.

....

I remember hearing the same complaint during the Reagan administration. Fraud is not a new problem. Nor is it any more rampant then before.

Tax breaks leave more money for corporations to reinvest, hire more people, and produce more and improved goods/services.

They already have all the money they could possibly need to do those things many times over. Why aren't they?

Just because it doesn't do what you want it to and has no effect on you doesn't make it terrible.

Actually, that's exactly what it does.

 

[poweRob]

Tax breaks leave more money for corporations to reinvest, hire more people, and produce more and improved goods/services.

This argument is so damn stupid. They will hire as few people as they possibly can to do their business. More profit doesn't make a company hire more people. Only demand for their product or service makes them hire more people to meet production demand. And cutting taxes for corporations does not increase demand for their product/service.

This is why right-wingers who make such arguments should never be in control of a freegin' economy. And why every time we put them in control in modern history where they implement this trash they tank the economy.

 

[Critter7r]

And they are making record profits now, and unemployment is at a decades-low number. I'm curious how many times I have to post that before you address it.

Tax breaks leave more money for corporations to reinvest, hire more people, and produce more and improved goods/services.

They already have all the money they could possibly need to do those things many times over. Why aren't they?

What you think they'll do with their windfall notwithstanding, why haven't they done it already with the money they've been hoarding for the past decade?

Watch CEOs cast doubt on tax reform's big sell - CNN Video

 

[VanceMack]

Most (most-there ARE some legit concerns-but we dont see those being expressed) of the people opposed to this are opposed to it for one of two reasons...they are democrat voters who will automatically stand against anything the GOP is doing or they are mindless Never Trumpers that will vote against anything that Trump has been in support of. Ive actually see a few...a very few...but a few left leaning folk on this site that have admitted that beyond parroting rhetoric like most of the vacuous empty headed ****s are doing, they actually went to the web site and plugged in their data and admit that they will be doing better as a middle income wage earner to the tune of a few thousand a year...but they are still opposed to it. But at least they bothered to look. At least they know what the **** they are on about.

As for why we need more corporate incentives...yes...the economy is growing...thats a great thing. Yes, unemployment is dropping...thats also a great thing. But we need more American manufacturing jobs brought back into the country, especially in impoverished areas. Those are the parts of the country still suffering the greatest impact with the loss of middle to upper middle income jobs. If we are going to see revitalization and sustained growth, we need a more competitive employment environment. And anyone that wasnt blinded by their hatred would see that.

In addition to revitalizing and sustaining growth, the reality remains that the unemployment numbers do not accurately reflect our unemployed in this country. So with more middle income jobs (not just low income service industry jobs) more people will be encouraged to re-enter the work force. That is ALSO a good thing. Sadly...a lot of the idiotic hate rhetoric coming from the nevertrumpers are today emanating from the same people that just a few years ago clearly understood that reality. Funny how hatred causes individuals to completely abandon their integrity, character, and values.

 

[Fraggle Rock]

Tax Reform Angst on the Left

Liberals compare the tax bill to the Fugitive Slave Act, using terms like "corrupt", "budget busting", and "cruel".

So it must be a really good bill.

Liberals regard any effort to reduce the amount of money that is being taken from producers and given to their non-productive friends as "cruel" and evil, hence the comparison to the Fugitive Slave Act, because it was, you know, evil. Other than being evil, and Republicans voting for it even thought they had to know it's evil, there's no connection. Because boosting the economy by cutting taxes and regulations? That's just nonsense.

Okay if this tax bill is so Star Spangled Great why the secrecy. Why not release the bill and allow the public to see it. Why? Because it sucks? More corporate giveaways, it amazes me how Middle Class Conservatives carry the water for the wealthy. I call them the Gunga Din's of the 1%

 

[poweRob]

As for why we need more corporate incentives...yes...the economy is growing...thats a great thing. Yes, unemployment is dropping...thats also a great thing. But we need more American manufacturing jobs brought back into the country, especially in impoverished areas.

Especially in the rust belt.

Trump Employment Gains Are Not Helping His Rust Belt Base

Unemployment is up in Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio since May, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, even as the national unemployment rate is at a 17-year low of 4.1 percent.​

 

[VanceMack]

Especially in the rust belt.

Trump Employment Gains Are Not Helping His Rust Belt Base

Unemployment is up in Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio since May, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, even as the national unemployment rate is at a 17-year low of 4.1 percent.​

If people actually give a **** about the country they would put aside their partisan bull**** and do what is right for the country. There should be more republicans opposed to this plan as currently structured. There should be more democrats fighting to pass tax reform. Not everyone should agree its the right thing to do, but no one should just kick and stomp and take a stand based on partisan lines. Yes...those areas need help. Inner cities across the country need help. The Appalachian states need more than reinvestment in coal. We need American reinvestment. We need foreign firms building here. Our government should be working TOGETHER to be making this a competitive field for marketing, manufacturing, and employment.

 

[faithful_servant]

Tax Reform Angst on the Left

Liberals compare the tax bill to the Fugitive Slave Act, using terms like "corrupt", "budget busting", and "cruel".

So it must be a really good bill.

Liberals regard any effort to reduce the amount of money that is being taken from producers and given to their non-productive friends as "cruel" and evil, hence the comparison to the Fugitive Slave Act, because it was, you know, evil. Other than being evil, and Republicans voting for it even thought they had to know it's evil, there's no connection. Because boosting the economy by cutting taxes and regulations? That's just nonsense.

It's not that liberals are against people keeping their money, it's that they don't like taking money away from the gov't.

 

[Fraggle Rock]

Most (most-there ARE some legit concerns-but we dont see those being expressed) of the people opposed to this are opposed to it for one of two reasons...they are democrat voters who will automatically stand against anything the GOP is doing or they are mindless Never Trumpers that will vote against anything that Trump has been in support of. Ive actually see a few...a very few...but a few left leaning folk on this site that have admitted that beyond parroting rhetoric like most of the vacuous empty headed ****s are doing, they actually went to the web site and plugged in their data and admit that they will be doing better as a middle income wage earner to the tune of a few thousand a year...but they are still opposed to it. But at least they bothered to look. At least they know what the **** they are on about.

As for why we need more corporate incentives...yes...the economy is growing...thats a great thing. Yes, unemployment is dropping...thats also a great thing. But we need more American manufacturing jobs brought back into the country, especially in impoverished areas. Those are the parts of the country still suffering the greatest impact with the loss of middle to upper middle income jobs. If we are going to see revitalization and sustained growth, we need a more competitive employment environment. And anyone that wasnt blinded by their hatred would see that.

In addition to revitalizing and sustaining growth, the reality remains that the unemployment numbers do not accurately reflect our unemployed in this country. So with more middle income jobs (not just low income service industry jobs) more people will be encouraged to re-enter the work force. That is ALSO a good thing. Sadly...a lot of the idiotic hate rhetoric coming from the nevertrumpers are today emanating from the same people that just a few years ago clearly understood that reality. Funny how hatred causes individuals to completely abandon their integrity, character, and values.

Dream on. In 2003 I worked for a semi-conductor company and we were told at a meeting that we were in direct competition with the Chinese worker who made $1500 a year. Now I wasn't born yesterday and I raised my hand and said I had a mortgage and a car payment and do not live in a rice hut. You are dreaming if you think they are bringing back jobs. The corporate tax rate is minimal compared to a workforce of 5000 that you pay $2000 a year to compared to $30000. Please wake up. The previous example shows a net savings for a employer of 1.4 billion on 5000 workers. And that does not even figure into the health care costs which would be another 50 to 75 million. P.S. that Semi conductor plant shut down a few years later

 

[faithful_servant]

Tax cuts that only benefit the rich and adds trillions to the national debt. Why on earth do you think that's a good thing??

Except that they don't only benefit the rich. I'm FAR from rich and I will most certainly see a benefit from them. Last year my tax accountant told me that we were on the razor's edge of our standard deduction being more than if we itemized. The increasing of the standard deduction will mean that I will have a substantially higher deduction than I would have. And like most liberals, you lack the financial common sense to understand that a better economy means more tax revenues and you ignore the fact that this will REQUIRE spending cuts. Given about 10 years of conservative leadership and we will be seeing reductions in the Nat'l debt for the first time in modern history.

 

[Fraggle Rock]

Except that they don't only benefit the rich. I'm FAR from rich and I will most certainly see a benefit from them. Last year my tax accountant told me that we were on the razor's edge of our standard deduction being more than if we itemized. The increasing of the standard deduction will mean that I will have a substantially higher deduction than I would have. And like most liberals, you lack the financial common sense to understand that a better economy means more tax revenues and you ignore the fact that this will REQUIRE spending cuts. Given about 10 years of conservative leadership and we will be seeing reductions in the Nat'l debt for the first time in modern history.

Okay if that is true why since 1980 has the middle class not seen a substantial wage increase while the average Ceo went from 30 times the average workers salary to 500 times the average workers salary

 

[faithful_servant]

Okay if that is true why since 1980 has the middle class not seen a substantial wage increase while the average Ceo went from 30 times the average workers salary to 500 times the average workers salary

What does that have to do with my reply??

 

[VanceMack]

Dream on. In 2003 I worked for a semi-conductor company and we were told at a meeting that we were in direct competition with the Chinese worker who made $1500 a year. Now I wasn't born yesterday and I raised my hand and said I had a mortgage and a car payment and do not live in a rice hut. You are dreaming if you think they are bringing back jobs. The corporate tax rate is minimal compared to a workforce of 5000 that you pay $2000 a year to compared to $30000. Please wake up. The previous example shows a net savings for a employer of 1.4 billion on 5000 workers. And that does not even figure into the health care costs which would be another 50 to 75 million. P.S. that Semi conductor plant shut down a few years later

All...maybe not. But then I look at the foreign car companies building plants and employing Americans and realize that people like you are just mindless ****heads invested in party rhetoric and exist without the capacity for independent thought and also recognize that if we are going to grow as a country it will be despite dumbasses like you, not because of you.

 

[poweRob]

If people actually give a **** about the country they would put aside their partisan bull**** and do what is right for the country. There should be more republicans opposed to this plan as currently structured. There should be more democrats fighting to pass tax reform. Not everyone should agree its the right thing to do, but no one should just kick and stomp and take a stand based on partisan lines. Yes...those areas need help. Inner cities across the country need help. The Appalachian states need more than reinvestment in coal. We need American reinvestment. We need foreign firms building here. Our government should be working TOGETHER to be making this a competitive field for marketing, manufacturing, and employment.

Massive infrastructure bill with an old school Reagan military policy of where the products must be American made if and where possible would do well. Implement single payer medicare for all. Make it an employee paycheck deduction and remove the business expense of it from businesses. This will stimulate all the rural doctors and regional hospital jobs.

There's a mix of left and right.

 

[Fraggle Rock]

What does that have to do with my reply??

You are saying that these tax cuts don't help the rich only and I am showing you that every economist shows that middle class wages have been stagnate for 35 years while CEO's have gone up to 500 times the salary of the average worker.

 

[DamnYankee]

Okay if this tax bill is so Star Spangled Great why the secrecy.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1/text

 

[Blkdirt Farmer]

Okay if that is true why since 1980 has the middle class not seen a substantial wage increase while the average Ceo went from 30 times the average workers salary to 500 times the average workers salary

As a Republican I am sorry to say that CEO salary's have done exactly as you say they have. Why? Because Regan and Republicans pulled down the tax rates on the very top earners, from over 50% to 36% and capped them there. There has been a party raging in that top tax bracket ever since. Why did they roll down those tax rates? Because it was believed that they would be good for a very weak at the time economy. Good tool, but they did not put it back in the box when the time came. Neither I might add did the Democrats when they were in power... The rich have been trouncing the rest of us ever since. Tax rates beyond 50% are for curbing a basic tenant of mankind, GREED... And they do work at just that. Not only that a very strong argument can be made that before the 1981 tax cuts the wealthy among us were still living a very comfortable lifestyle....

So what happened to all that money the wealthy were supposed to create jobs with? It sadly went into the first of many rounds of taking manufacturing off shore. Management parted ways with labor, to this day..

So now we do nothing to curb Greed, and we get what we got...