Banning abortion after 20 weeks passed by the House

[minnie616]

Quoting "Pro Unlimited Abortions Anytime" propaganda is a waste of everyone's time.

I'm quoting an American Medical Association report that had nothing to do with the abortion debate.

It's not a regular internet article, so it's a little hard to find. But one of your own sources confirms that the AMA official stance is that by 20 weeks a fetus feels pain and has brain activity.

You need to face up to the fact that after a point Abortion is killing a baby.

Kermit Gosnell has been classified a Serial Killer by FBI investigators. People like you wanting all restrictions on abortion erased will release Monsters like that on to the world.

The link you posted in this tread was a letter/petition to the AMA not a report written by the AMA.

 

[Casca XV]

I am only aware of 2 preemies younger that 22 weeks who lived morethan a few minutes or hours.
They were 21 weeks and 5 days gestation and 21 weeks and 6 days gestation.

They were concidered medical miracles.
Gestation means doctors are counting from the first day of the LMP.

So the woman is said to be two weeks pregnant the day she conceives. :shock:

see #150

 

[Casca XV]

The link you posted in this tread was a letter/petition to AMA not a report written by the AMA.

see #150.

 

[Casca XV]

I note that they dont link to the actual articles they are quoting. Hmmm.

And it's a moot point anyway, because as has been pointed out, there are methods available for pain remediation, just like for any other medical procedure. Such as anesthetic injection. Or even lethal injection. There's no need for any pain.

see #150

 

[Lursa]

see #150

Gosnell was a criminal. A sick monster.

He was by no means an 'abortion provider' performing legitimate medical procedures.

OTOH, if abortion is made illegal, there would be lots more of them around...would you like to see that? Or make sure there are safe, clean facilities for women where the procedures cause no pain to the unborn?

And you still have no legitimate links directly to research saying the unborn feel pain before 20 weeks.

 

[Lursa]

Pregnancy IS sex with a pregnant woman.

The penis couldn't go in far enough, so it ejected spermatic fluid.
The fluid couldn't go in far enough, so individual sperm swam in further, up where the ova were.
The whole sperm couldn't get into an ovum, but the head could, and it provided its chromosomes.

At first, the male's chromosomes could only get in the ovum and transform it, but as the ovum was transformed, the embryo it became eventually implanted into the endometrial wall and, after making a placenta - using some of the woman's tissue as well as its own - it leaked copies of its own cells and also loose chromosomes into the woman's bloodstream.

You apparently want to pretend that the woman and man are not still doing it merely because the man has removed the digits and other appendages of his organism, but parts of the guy are still inside her. If that woman gave birth to your kid, you are always having sex with her.

The guy can't give her pleasure that way, of course; instead, he can only give her morning sickness, etc. So if he cares about her, he might want to have more digity/appendagy/caressy forms of sex with her to make her feel better after giving her bad feelings, and if he doesn't care about her, he might not.

Who's perverted?

:shock: :screwy:thinking:whothere:

This post is incomprehensible...

 

[HowardBThiname]

You are quoting "abortion at any time propagandists". I am quoting the "American Medical Association". I even found one of your own propaganda sources admitting that it is the position of the AMA that fetuses feel pain by 20 weeks. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ain-20-weeks&usg=AOvVaw1RIJQEsPxGIAhRvZ4rZYQd

I'm not even arguing against abortion, I'm just stating that with this and Preemies surviving at 21 and 1/2 weeks, 20 weeks or 5 months is a good safe time to stop abortions.

Okay -- maybe.

I was able to track down the study they're quoting (you can download it here: http://iasp.files.cms-plus.com/Cont...V-2_June2006_Rev_Mar2012_1390263724028_20.pdf)

It does appear to come from a reputable, no-biased medical group that studies the ramifications of pain in people of all ages -- https://www.iasp-pain.org/index.aspx

So, okay, maybe. I have not, however, been able to locate this study in peer-reviewed archives, and that's a very important factor in determining the veracity of the claims.

In addition, even if the study is accurate, it does not hazard an estimate of when the fetus can feel pain, it only suggests that it's "well before the third trimester." That leaves a lot yet to be answered, doesn't it?

 

[Lursa]

You can't make either of those claims with certainty, and shows a closed mind. Who knows. Maybe if there is a soul, it chooses not to be born to the mother carrying its vessel?

I know, its a silly though, but my point is that we don't really know.

That's fine if that is a woman's belief, there is no one that will stop her from having a baby based on her beliefs. How is that close minded?

 

[American]

I already credited the Quote front the Journal of AMA ethics in my previous Post.

Post # 41 ...sorry you missed it . Almost 2,000 pain studies were reviewed.

As smoke mirrors reported on the other breaking news thread. A fetus that young cannot feel pain.

The brain is not developed , the lungs are not developed , and most do not even have skin yet.



Smoke and mirrors quote ...Bolding mine:


My little one had no pain when it died within me because a fetus less than 26 weeks is incapable of feeling pain. It had not yet reached the fetal age it needed to be to develop the neural system needed for pain.

Is there any doubt that the baby looks like a human at 20 weeks?

 

[Lursa]

Is there any doubt that the baby looks like a human at 20 weeks?

No one questions that the unborn are human. What distinction are you making regarding "appearance?"

 

[American]

No one questions that the unborn are human. What distinction are you making regarding "appearance?"

It's not just a glob of tissue.

 

[Lursa]

It's not just a glob of tissue.

Sure, it's not. But again, what is the distinction you wish to make here?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Quoting "Pro Unlimited Abortions Anytime" propaganda is a waste of everyone's time.

I'm quoting an American Medical Association report that had nothing to do with the abortion debate.

Evidently, you don't know what JAMA is.

You need to face up to the fact that after a point Abortion is killing a baby.

Baby is a term of endearment.

Kermit Gosnell has been classified a Serial Killer by FBI investigators. People like you wanting all restrictions on abortion erased will release Monsters like that on to the world.

Gosnell isn't the topic.

 

[American]

Sure, it's not. But again, what is the distinction you wish to make here?

I believe I made. I've been told that a glob of tissue isn't human.

 

[Lursa]

I believe I made. I've been told that a glob of tissue isn't human.

OK, well if it is a product of a woman's egg and a man's sperm, it is. It has human DNA, it's Homo sapiens.

That's just basic science and I agree it shouldnt be dismissed.

 

[Casca XV]

Evidently, you don't know what JAMA is.





Baby is a term of endearment.





Gosnell isn't the topic.

I absolutely do. JAMA peer review is being misused by abortion providers to shut down any medical findings that hurts business.

Gosnel was a late term abortion provider. This debate is about preventing late term abortion not ending abortion itself.

A late term abortion supporter trying to distance themselve from Gosnel is like a neo-nazi trying to distance themselves from Hitler.

 

[Lursa]

I absolutely do. JAMA peer review is being misused by abortion providers to shut down any medical findings that hurts business.

Gosnel was a late term abortion provider. This debate is about preventing late term abortion not ending abortion itself.

A late term abortion supporter trying to distance themselve from Gosnel is like a neo-nazi trying to distance themselves from Hitler.

Prove it. Provide the links to the actual research where they claim the unborn feel pain before 20 weeks. Because your article didnt do that.

Here's a question for you, since you are so concerned about late term abortions: How many elective late term abortions take place in the US each year?

 

[iguanaman]

I believe I made. I've been told that a glob of tissue isn't human.

It isn't a human BEING is what you have been told. Human DNA does not make it a human being, there is much more to humanity than that.

 

[Removable Mind]

I absolutely do. JAMA peer review is being misused by abortion providers to shut down any medical findings that hurts business.

Gosnel was a late term abortion provider. This debate is about preventing late term abortion not ending abortion itself.

A late term abortion supporter trying to distance themselve from Gosnel is like a neo-nazi trying to distance themselves from Hitler.

Gosnel was a criminal.

How many pro-choice advocates openly supporter late term abortions? A legitimate source would be nice if you choose to reply and quantify your answer.

 

[Scrabaholic]

I absolutely do. JAMA peer review is being misused by abortion providers to shut down any medical findings that hurts business.

Thanks for the laugh!

Gosnel was a late term abortion provider. This debate is about preventing late term abortion not ending abortion itself.

Gosnell is not relevant to the debate.

A late term abortion supporter trying to distance themselve from Gosnel is like a neo-nazi trying to distance themselves from Hitler.

:roll:

 

[Waddy]

My oldest child, my daughter, was born at 24 weeks. 2 lbs, 2 oz. I could have held her in the palm of one hand, she was so tiny. At first they fed her through a syringe; just squirted a little formula (I guess it was) into her mouth. Month and a half in the hospital. Couldn't come home until she weighed 5 lbs.

She's now been married for almost 20 years, has a boy of her own, and is the director of a branch public library here.

 

[Waddy]

Evidently, you don't know what JAMA is.
Baby is a term of endearment.
Gosnell isn't the topic.

The difference between a baby and a fetus is one is wanted and the other is not.

 

[year2late]

My oldest child, my daughter, was born at 24 weeks. 2 lbs, 2 oz. I could have held her in the palm of one hand, she was so tiny. At first they fed her through a syringe; just squirted a little formula (I guess it was) into her mouth. Month and a half in the hospital. Couldn't come home until she weighed 5 lbs.

She's now been married for almost 20 years, has a boy of her own, and is the director of a branch public library here.

45 days in the hospital for a baby born at 24 weeks? 2 lbs 2 ounces? I think you got the weeks wrong.

 

[Waddy]

45 days in the hospital for a baby born at 24 weeks? 2 lbs 2 ounces? I think you got the weeks wrong.

I was just guessing on the hospital stay. it was 45 years ago. And my wife corrected me on the weight. She was 2 lbs 6 oz.

 

[Scrabaholic]

The difference between a baby and a fetus is one is wanted and the other is not.

Baby is a term of endearment.

Fetus is the gestational stage between implantation and 8 weeks.