Are you tired of the perpetual state of war the US is in?

[Fishking]

I'm sure you have all the evidence about the evil fascists who overthrew the peaceful Yanukovych regime.

Yanukovych? You mean the duly elected president of Ukraine, in elections that were certified by international bodies as being legitimate but was illegally overthrown in an undemocratic manner? That Yanukovych?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

There are few things I hate more than the fact that my sons have never experienced a peacetime America.

 

[Fishking]

Yes, the Ukrainians, those people who are just as human as you and I, overthrew their corrupt government that had slowly and surely disregarded popular sovereignty in preference for being Moscow's lapdog.

Again, which Ukrainians? I say this because obviously not all of them want the current illegitimate Kiev government. Oh...and the previous legitimate president was legally elected. If they had held elections and he refused to step down after losing, then you'd have a case for overthrow. But nah...can't wait for stupid elections! We are super mad about this trade policy call and also, magically, there are high level US state department officials hanging out with us and the head of the CIA, an agency with a long history of coups, to boot. Yup, nothing to see here folks!

 

[Jredbaron96]

Yanukovych? You mean the duly elected president of Ukraine, in elections that were certified by international bodies as being legitimate but was illegally overthrown in an undemocratic manner? That Yanukovych?

Yes, that guy who betrayed his promises to the Ukrainian people, led them down the path of stagnation, and when faced with protests emboldened police brutality against his own people.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Cry more.

 

[Fishking]

Um...Chechnya is landlocked. It doesn't have a naval base. So what was the rationale then for taking over that country?

Apologies, I was still in Crimea. As for Chechnya, I'm guessing that is for the same reason I'm willing to bet that you didn't support Catalonia's independence. Chechnya was/has been part of Russia for hundreds of years, which is different than states gained post WWII. No state is going to support the secession of it's members. The US didn't let the South do it, Spain isn't letting Catalonia do it, even the newly formed EU is fighting very hard economic warfare to keep it from happening.

 

[Fishking]

View attachment 67226704

Awww...look at you trying to be cute. If not making any valid points is you're goal, then having at it. Just don't throw a hissy fit for being called out.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Awww...look at you trying to be cute. If not making any valid points is you're goal, then having at it. Just don't throw a hissy fit for being called out.

Fishking if you ever made any other points besides reiterating long dead myths and **** you read on the internet, you'd be worthy of an actual response.

 

[Fishking]

Yes, that guy who betrayed his promises to the Ukrainian people, led them down the path of stagnation, and when faced with protests emboldened police brutality against his own people.

Sorry, but there are elections for that and having high level foreign state department personnel and the head of the CIA, and agency with a long history of setting up coups, over there palling around with the "protesters" is just too unbelievable to think legitimate.

Obama didn't close GITMO. He promised. We should have rioted and thrown him out, eh? Please. His election was legitimate and certified by international observers. The answer to not liking policy is to not elect the person in the next election. If the person refuses to step down afterwards, then you look for overthrow.

Glad to see you have a quote from an egregious human rights violator, though. Really shows consistency on your part and that your objections totally aren't a facade.

 

[Fishking]

Fishking if you ever made any other points besides reiterating long dead myths and **** you read on the internet, you'd be worthy of an actual response.

Sorry, no myths. Show me one single myth I've stated. You won't, because there isn't. Now go cry some more for being called out for your non-points.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Sorry, no myths. Show me one single myth I've stated. You won't, because there isn't. Now go cry some more for being called out for your non-points.

That the Ukrainian revolution was a US backed coup.

Call Staples, because that was easy.

 

[Cardinal]

Sorry, but there are elections for that and having high level foreign state department personnel and the head of the CIA, and agency with a long history of setting up coups, over there palling around with the "protesters" is just too unbelievable to think legitimate.

Obama didn't close GITMO. He promised. We should have rioted and thrown him out, eh? Please. His election was legitimate and certified by international observers. The answer to not liking policy is to not elect the person in the next election. If the person refuses to step down afterwards, then you look for overthrow.

Glad to see you have a quote from an egregious human rights violator, though. Really shows consistency on your part and that your objections totally aren't a facade.

Says the guy who asks, "So what that [Putin's] basically a dictator?" When you accept the rationale and morals of a dictator for invading other countries, you lose all credibility.

 

[Fishking]

That the Ukrainian revolution was a US backed coup.

Call Staples, because that was easy.

It was. That's a statement of fact. What you're clumsily actually asking is how much or to what degree. No one questions whether we backed it or not...well, no one with any education and honesty.

 

[Fishking]

Says the guy who asks, "So what that [Putin's] basically a dictator?" When you accept the rationale and morals of a dictator for invading other countries, you lose all credibility.

Putin isn't the president of the US, nor is he some kind of hero to idolize, and we drop to our knees for Saudi Arabia, which may be the worst human rights violators in the world. Glad I could help you out there.

 

[Jredbaron96]

It was. That's a statement of fact.

No it's not, but thank you for trying.

 

[apdst]

We have an ongoing "War on Terror" that seems to have no end in sight. The Pentagon recently confirmed that we've got troops in Yemen. We had a proxy war in Syria that we lost. We're sending arms to Ukraine. There might be a war with North Korea for all we know. It seems that the people in power, be they Democrat or Republican, want the US to get involved in wars or to start wars.

Quite frankly, this is but one of the reasons why I don't consider Democrats and Republicans to be different from one another.

Interesting video on North Korea by the way.

If the bad guys would realize that there's no way they can win and give up, we wouldn't have to get involved.

 

[Tangmo]

The Russian vote in Crimea was held under Russian military occupation.

Armed and masked Russian soldiers surrounding the parliament building in Crimea

Indeed. Putin's "little green men" Russian soldiers.

Armed soldiers in Russian uniforms stripped of all identifying insignia were inside and outside the polling stations in Crimea. There were no voter registration rolls or data. Anyone could vote. A person could vote more than once at a polling station or move from station to station to vote. Russian occupiers possessed the ballot boxes at all times en route to polling stations, in the stations, counted and reported the votes.

Some people said sarcastically the yes got 119% of the vote but that for 'credibility' that was reduced to its 97% or whatever in the 90s was the finally reported percentile. What topped it off is that the few people who slipped in a no vote found out later they'd actually voted yes anyway. It's more sarcasm that in Russia people who vote get their ballot handed to 'em with Putin's name already checked off on it.

There are people here who might like this model for certain states in the United States.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Yanukovych? You mean the duly elected president of Ukraine, in elections that were certified by international bodies as being legitimate but was illegally overthrown in an undemocratic manner? That Yanukovych?

The Yanukovych who embezzled billions from the state, who illegally imprisoned a political opponent (Yulia Tymoshenko), who had hundreds of titushi (Russian thugs) bused in to Kyiv, who instituted draconian anti-protest laws on 16 January 2014 in violation of the Constitution, whose Berkut (Golden Eagle) security forces shot and killed 100 protesters between 18-21 February and injured 1,100, who signed an agreement for snap elections on the afternoon of 21 February with the opposition leadership and French, German, Belgian, and Russian delegates present, who fled the capital city of Kyiv by helicopter on the night of 21-22 February for his hometown of Kharkiv and then on to sanctuary in Russia, whose own Parliament majority Party of Regions voted on 23 February 2014 to remove Yanukovych from office and appointed the Parliament Speaker (Oleksandr Turchynov) as interim president until the 25 May 2014 special election (won by Petro Poroshenko).

That Yanukovych.

 

[Crovax]

I see your video's from Ron Paul. Having done a bit of research on him, I'm deeply suspicious of anything and everything he says.

That being said, I just wish that we had Eisenhower as president again...because if one looks at the 1956 GOP party platform, one finds that it is in many ways very similar to Obama's 2012 party platform...

...and Eisenhower warned us all against the growing power of the military/industrial complex. He understood war better than most...and he hated it. It's time America took a history lesson in why Eisenhower hated war.

:roll: I always have to roll my eyes when people talk about Eisenhower’s military industrial complex. They defense budget now is less than half what it was then (as a % of GDP)

 

[Fishking]

No it's not, but thank you for trying.

I've already provided links to actual proof of that so...I you just want to be willfully ignorant on the subject, more power to you.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Lol, wut? One of the most honest and consistent politicians out there.

Ron Paul used to own a newspaper in Texas, and after a bit of digging, I found quite a bit of plainly - not inferred, but plainly - racist op-eds in that paper. They weren't officially authored by Ron Paul, but I find it highly unlikely that they were published without his knowledge and (at least implied) consent.

 

[Tangmo]

Perhaps we're involved in skirmishes all over the globe nowadays. Certainly no big war is going on at the moment. No WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam or even Desert Storm. Iraq and Afghanistan, we're there, but with few troops. Syria really wasn't a war with us. We bombed some, tried to overthrow Assad, that failed. ISIS seems defeated in Syria and Assad is going to stay in power. That is as it should be in my opinion. I never thought we should try to overthrow Assad. Heck, I thought the second Iraq war was unjustified. Afghanistan was different, them harboring UBL and all.

Perhaps we ought to be glad there isn't a major intervention or war going on. War isn't pretty. A few troops here and there just might be worth it if they prevent another major war.

If I had my way, there wouldn't be a war without a total and full declaration of war from congress. I don't mean a UN resolution or an resolution authorizing military force either. A resolution is nothing more than an opinion. I want a full and total declaration. Either put this nation on a war footing with all that entails or no war.

United States will be doing indefinitely what it's been doing since 9/11. In other words an extended period of long police actions that are small scale and located in numerous 'hot spots' globally. The military calls 'em operations, of low intensity deployments, that we do abroad, that are executed by forces of a highly specialized training and preparation, experience. It is the rule to which the Iraq invasion of 2003-2011 proved to be the exception it always was. Afghanistan is, as Americans widely agree, a higher intensity operation that despite griping and complaints is accepted as unwinnable yet worthy of pursuing.

All of it is strategic and it is driven by the Pentagon. Banks, corporations and defense industries etc are involved but they are not driving the Pentagon's global strategy and operations in Asia and Africa which are the primary geostrategic terrain. Presidents and Congress know this is the most viable approach to national security and strategy focused abroad.

The All Volunteer Force has proved to be the way to execute and pursue this post 9/11 global strategy to suppress the small bands and organizations of fighters who are intent on advancing against the United States and its geostrategic interests. Outside of the Iraq exception it is nearly impossible to brand any of the U.S. military operations initiated and conducted under this global strategy a failure. Lybia for instance was going to be a mess whether or not the U.S. and allies intervened, i.e., Gaddaffi's forces were formidable yet a proliferation of armed bands were going to assert themselves in their own territory to fight Gaddaffi and among themselves. The U.S. and Europeans simply inserted themselves in the equation to remove Gaddaffi then to have our own input and say more and less and to varying degrees. Most importantly to be a player but knowing the U.S. could never foreseeably be a victor and turn Lybia around. Turning Lybia is a long term prospect for the U.S. and Nato allies that may extend a score of years, perhaps less.

In Afghanistan the U.S. is keeping China closed out of Beijing's designs to dominate in Kabul. CCP Boyz in Beijing want and need to transmogrify Afghanistan into a source to China of its estimated $2 Trillion of natural resources and to bully Kabul -- if necessary -- into their strategic partner in South Asia against India which is now a strategic partner of the U.S. The ongoing U.S. unwinnable military presence in Afghanistan also further denies Afghanistan to the direct and overt political influence in Kabul that is sought by its western neighbor Iran and its eastern neighbor Pakistan. Further, Afghanistan borders to its north a proliferation of Stan countries where tensions exist against Beijing moving in to take control by means of its yellow brick road, i.e, the grandiose new silk road scheme which would extend from Beijing to Istanbul encompassing by three main routes the land mass of Asia.

Congress declaring war and the US armed forces replicating Iraq in some foreign ****hole is not in the cards and wisely so. We've got rather small wars that are long wars. Each one of the many of 'em is a focused military operation of a different size force and is conducted by highly effective and efficient special forces of various kind. Air Force and Navy continue in their major roles to include support of the ground operations by U.S. special forces in the various zones of engagement at different locales of differing intensities, means, goals. It's the 21st century geostrategic approach in the stead of large scale and high intensity large unit maneuver warfare as we executed in Desert Storm and in Iraq to seize Baghdad only then to find ourselves stuck with it.

 

[Fishking]

The Yanukovych who embezzled billions from the state, who illegally imprisoned a political opponent (Yulia Tymoshenko), who had hundreds of titushi (Russian thugs) bused in to Kyiv, who instituted draconian anti-protest laws on 16 January 2014 in violation of the Constitution, whose Berkut (Golden Eagle) security forces shot and killed 100 protesters between 18-21 February and injured 1,100, who signed an agreement for snap elections on the afternoon of 21 February with the opposition leadership and French, German, Belgian, and Russian delegates present, who fled the capital city of Kyiv by helicopter on the night of 21-22 February for his hometown of Kharkiv and then on to sanctuary in Russia, whose own Parliament majority Party of Regions voted on 23 February 2014 to remove Yanukovych from office and appointed the Parliament Speaker (Oleksandr Turchynov) as interim president until the 25 May 2014 special election (won by Petro Poroshenko).

That Yanukovych.

Ah...you're referencing people being shot. It's interesting to note that there was someone shooting both police forces and protesters and that the Kiev government refused to investigate into the matter, which increased the tensions.

Yet...you reference all these things for which no charges were levied against him. I know, I know...you were just as outraged over Spain using police brutality against Catalonia as well because no government has the right to keep general peace. I wonder how many US citizens would be shot if they stormed the White House.

 

[Fishking]

Ron Paul used to own a newspaper in Texas, and after a bit of digging, I found quite a bit of plainly - not inferred, but plainly - racist op-eds in that paper. They weren't officially authored by Ron Paul, but I find it highly unlikely that they were published without his knowledge and (at least implied) consent.

Yeah...that issue was covered. When they found out about it, they were canned. It's not like Ron Paul was personally running everything himself. Trying to create new and alternate sources and groups from mainstream is always difficult. It's why you found so many crappy groups and activities with the TEA party, Occupy Wall Street, or Black Lives Matters.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Yeah...that issue was covered. When they found out about it, they were canned. It's not like Ron Paul was personally running everything himself. Trying to create new and alternate sources and groups from mainstream is always difficult. It's why you found so many crappy groups and activities with the TEA party, Occupy Wall Street, or Black Lives Matters.

I find that defense of Ron Paul unlikely since the newspaper was in operation before he even held a statewide office in Texas, when he was a relative nobody. When someone is not particularly well-known, it's very unlikely that they're going to leave the editing and publishing of a newspaper to mere associates.