AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud [W:32]

[eohrnberger]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

That's exactly the way most of the country feels about the Russia probe, but many Trump supporters still give backlash.

So far the Russia probe appears to be fed on little more than Democrats and their leftist media accusations and continued flogging on with little more than gossip, rumors, innuendo, and an Obama admin paid for 'dossier' from ex MI6 Mr. Steel.

The illegal voting has cropped up in news reports here and there, with sometimes surprisingly large number of incidences of illegal votes called into question. Also an open question is how some precincts return final vote counts larger than the number of voters than actually voted in those precincts.

Between the two, seems that there is more to the illegal voting issue than the Russian collusion with the Trump campaign.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Exactly.

We have the leader of the California Senate, third in line to the Governorship, stating almost every illegal alien uses fake ID's to survive.

If they are using fake I.D., what is to stop an illegal alien from voting?

It's a problem the left seems determined to ignore.

Considering that the US census counts non-citizens (just like citizens) for purposes of assigning congressional seats then non-citizens (legal or not) get represented even if they do not vote. Both CA and TX get extra House seats based on their large number of non-citizen residents. That is one benefit of sanctuary cities, counties and states which is not often mentioned.

 

[Blue_State]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Well let's observe the track record :mrgreen:

So no to transparency and legitimate elections?

 

[KevinKohler]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

There was fraud. In the suppression of Bernie Sanders campaign against Hillary.

 

[Chomsky]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

So far the Russia probe appears to be fed on little more than Democrats and their leftist media accusations and continued flogging on with little more than gossip, rumors, innuendo, and an Obama admin paid for 'dossier' from ex MI6 Mr. Steel.

The illegal voting has cropped up in news reports here and there, with sometimes surprisingly large number of incidences of illegal votes called into question. Also an open question is how some precincts return final vote counts larger than the number of voters than actually voted in those precincts.

Between the two, seems that there is more to the illegal voting issue than the Russian collusion with the Trump campaign.

The only thing holding-up the Russia investigation is the GOP and Trump obstruction: Nunes, Comey's firing, lack of appointing independent council, etc.

Nixon went down, because he faced an opposition (Democratic Party) Congress. Unfortunate for America today, we no longer have that functionality in our government. It is party controlled.

So it seems to be falling upon the Fourth Estate to do the job, and they're doing pretty well I think. Just like under Woodward and Bernstein, eventually the media investigations and leaks start getting the populace on-board and the citizens exert political pressure which moves the House and Senate. This is why Trump tries to claim the media is "fake".

It took what? Two and a half years of investigations for Nixon to resign? This is a long process, but it starts by flipping the voters in a couple of moderate GOP Senate states, forcing and independent prosecutor. We saw how a few moderate state GOP Senators flipped on healthcare, so they can also flip on Trump due to bowing to their constituent's political will.

I have little doubt that if an indie investigator gets appointed, Trump's days are numbered.

 

[ocean515]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Considering that the US census counts non-citizens (just like citizens) for purposes of assigning congressional seats then non-citizens (legal or not) get represented even if they do not vote. Both CA and TX get extra House seats based on their large number of non-citizen residents. That is one benefit of sanctuary cities, counties and states which is not often mentioned.

And, begins to shed light on the resistance to insuring the vote is as accurate as possible for every candidate, regardless of party affiliation.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Moderator's Warning:

Folks, there's plenty of places to discuss the Russian investigation and things relating to it. This is a *breaking news* story on a very specific topic, I suggest your post be primarily focused on that topic or don't make it

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

How can you prove a negative? - that millions of non-citizen legal residents (that have valid IDs) did not vote.

There is no evidence that supports the claim that they did; an assertion in the positive.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

I could give a number of reasons that would show that there is no reasonable expectation of them not voting. Instead let me ask you this. If there is a reasonable belief that something is true based on circumstantial evidence don't you think that that something should be investigated to see if it is true?

Of course! That said, there is no credible circumstantial evidence that I've seen to indicate millions of illegals have and are voting. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Those who are making the assertion in the positive that that IS occurring do not harbor a reasonable belief; they maintain a fantasy.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

There is no evidence that supports the claim that they did; an assertion in the positive.

If you have no idea who cast a given ballot then it is very hard to prove the citizenship (or lack thereof) of the voter. That is one of the issues that should be addressed - does a system exist to verify the citizenship, and single residence, of each voter?

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

The only thing holding-up the Russia investigation is the GOP and Trump obstruction: Nunes, Comey's firing, lack of appointing independent council, etc.

Nixon went down, because he faced an opposition (Democratic Party) Congress. Unfortunate for America today, we no longer have that functionality in our government. It is party controlled.

So it seems to be falling upon the Fourth Estate to do the job, and they're doing pretty well I think. Just like under Woodward and Bernstein, eventually the media investigations and leaks start getting the populace on-board and the citizens exert political pressure which moves the House and Senate. This is why Trump tries to claim the media is "fake".

It took what? Two and a half years of investigations for Nixon to resign? This is a long process, but it starts by flipping the voters in a couple of moderate GOP Senate states, forcing and independent prosecutor. We saw how a few moderate state GOP Senators flipped on healthcare, so they can also flip on Trump due to bowing to their constituent's political will.

I have little doubt that if an indie investigator gets appointed, Trump's days are numbered.

A good summary of the process. However, the Russian / Trump collusion still stands on quicksand rather than on anything more solid.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

If you have no idea who cast a given ballot then it is very hard to prove the citizenship (or lack thereof) of the voter. That is one of the issues that should be addressed - does a system exist to verify the citizenship, and single residence, of each voter?

If I have no evidence that the claim that millions of illegals voted in the last election, then the insistence that they actually did comes across as rather histrionic.

There is no credible evidence that the system we have in place now is in any way letting us down in terms of legal/illegal voting.

It's simply not an issue.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

If I have no evidence that the claim that millions of illegals voted in the last election, then the insistence that they actually did comes across as rather histrionic.

There is no credible evidence that the system we have in place now is in any way letting us down in terms of legal/illegal voting.

It's simply not an issue.

If I can show evidence that US citizenship is not required to get a valid, state issued, photo ID and that said ID is all that is required to register and vote - is that not evidence that the system in place is not able to prevent non-citizens from "legally" voting?

https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/documents/verifyingLawfulPresence.pdf

 

[Winston]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Trump should launch an independent investigative panel to investigate Bears. According to DeVos Bears are the real problem. :roll:

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Of course! That said, there is no credible circumstantial evidence that I've seen to indicate millions of illegals have and are voting. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Those who are making the assertion in the positive that that IS occurring do not harbor a reasonable belief; they maintain a fantasy.

Is reasonable deduction based on past actions considered good enough circumstantial evidence for you?

 

[Sherman123]

[/FONT]
AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Well. Looks like more voter suppression to come in the future under Trump.

My take:

1. It's kind of ridiculous that we don't have some kind of voter identification system. Virtually every other advanced western democracy has one for voters, we should too. Even if its actually baseless citizens who are fearful deserve to have faith in the electoral process and this assists immeasurably with that.

2. It should be easily accessible, phased in, and provided by the state where needed.

3. I do not think this had any influence on the election, no reputable bodies anywhere seem to think so either, and I'm guessing very few actually voted.

4. Trumps motivations are suspect and a little bizarre.

5. Talk about priorities...

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

If I can show evidence that US citizenship is not required to get a valid, state issued, photo ID and that said ID is all that is required to register and vote - is that not evidence that the system in place is not able to prevent non-citizens from "legally" voting?

https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/documents/verifyingLawfulPresence.pdf

Of course you can show that. That is, however, completely irrelevant to the claim in question: whether millions of illegals did or will vote in our elections.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Is reasonable deduction based on past actions considered good enough circumstantial evidence for you?

It would be, theoretically, if someone could show that, in the past, millions of illegals voted in our elections.

Thus far, no one has ever done so.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

It would be, theoretically, if someone could show that, in the past, millions of illegals voted in our elections.

Thus far, no one has ever done so.

It doesn't have to consist of just illegal voting. A history of illegal activities would show a trend correct? Combined with a knowledge of what does, or doesn't, happen?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Of course you can show that. That is, however, completely irrelevant to the claim in question: whether millions of illegals did or will vote in our elections.

It is a start - defining a problem is the first step toward solving it.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

It is a start - defining a problem is the first step toward solving it.

That's the entire point: it's an answer to a question that no one asked. There is no problem to be solved.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

It doesn't have to consist of just illegal voting. A history of illegal activities would show a trend correct? Combined with a knowledge of what does, or doesn't, happen?

No, the very, very specific claim that I was responding to was Trump's insistence on 5,000,000 illegals having voted. Other illegal activities didn't come into that equation.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

That's the entire point: it's an answer to a question that no one asked. There is no problem to be solved.

Nope, more like a question that you don't want asked.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Nope, more like a question that you don't want asked.

Newp. More like a solution in search of a problem.

There is no evidence that our current system has allowed for 5,000,000 illegal voters. None.

You haven't made a reasonable case that it needs changing.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

No, the very, very specific claim that I was responding to was Trump's insistence on 5,000,000 illegals having voted. Other illegal activities didn't come into that equation.

It was 3 mil, not 5.

And in order to prove that Trump might be correct we have to first conduct an investigation. That is what Trump, according to the OP of this thread is wanting. You want a reason for that investigation to happen. I'm attempting to give you reasons why such an investigation should happen by showing that it is quite a reasonable deduction based on circumstantial evidence that illegals may be voting. That criteria is what we are establishing.

• Past illegal conduct (conduct that is not just being in the US illegally but other criminal activities, and no, I'm not talking about murder, rape, or drugs)
• Past general conduct
• Knowledge based on what happens, or doesn't happen, when illegals do certain things.

Would you agree that it is possible to reasonably deduct that illegal aliens would vote based on those three things if I were to give examples of each happening?