Another Good Guy with a Gun...

[jaeger19]

And you'd be just as safe without any guns.

That's not true since I have had to defend myself with a firearm.

Besides the fact that I like to competitively shoot and hunt with firearms. Not to mention collect them for their history and sentimental family value.

 

[iguanaman]

1.25 million people die everyday in auto crashes. Fact is in this story, what the person did was illegal. It's good the person is being charged for this negligence. It's still silly to vilify an object. For example, one person could say that if guns were banned, this death would not have happened. You can also then say if cars were banned, than this death wouldn't have happened. Either is silly IMO and misses the point that a person is the problem, not the object.

That is far from correct. Worldwide, 1.25 million die YEARLY and over 90% of those deaths occur in low and middle income countries where auto safety regulations are not present or enforced You just gave us the reason for our 40,000 gun deaths yearly. We clearly have insufficient regulations and enforcement of firearm safety.

Nearly 1.25 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day. An additional 20-50 million are injured or disabled. ... Over 90% of all road fatalities occur in low and middle-income countries, which have less than half of the world's vehicles.

Road Safety Facts — Association for Safe International Road Travel

 

[bave]

No, fewer guns still mean fewer gun deaths, all things being equal. Can you at least consider that?

Do you have *any* evidence to support that?

Again, let me point out something.

In the past 20 years the number of guns in this country has grown by ~50% by most estimates. Most of them high cap handguns and AR type rifles. Over the same period the murder rate has declined heavily.

In countries with mandatory confiscation (uk/au) you have seen their murder rate decline *slower* over the same post-buyback period compared to the US, which was increasing firearm numbers.

Correlation: More guns, less murder. Statistics.

You say: Opposite. No statistics.

 

[Divine_Wind]

What-about-ism

Stay on topic.


Next you'll talk about swimming pool accidents. And since you're the man who advocated legalizing heroin, what do you can about death as long as it's not your own.
Crocodile tears.

Ahhh, good point. This is about banning guns, not saving lives. Got it. Thanks for the reminder of your position.

 

[Divine_Wind]

"What-about-ism"


What about swimming pools

This is about GUN CONTROL

Stay on topic.

QED. Yes, this isn’t about saving lives; “This is about GUN CONTROL” AKA gun banning.

 

[calamity]

QED. Yes, this isn’t about saving lives; “This is about GUN CONTROL” AKA gun banning.

Not necessarily. Cars are controlled, certainly not banned. Get it?

 

[Rich2018]

That's not true since I have had to defend myself with a firearm....

Strange how gun owners have these anecdotes but gun control supporters don't

Besides the fact that I like to competitively shoot and hunt with firearms. Not to mention collect them for their history and sentimental family value.

Do so with a less lethal gun.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Not necessarily. Cars are controlled, certainly not banned. Get it?

Over 40,000 Americans die every year in car accidents. Seems your car control isn’t working. If you want to save lives, why aren’t you proposing to ban them and mandate public transportation? Here’s the upside: You won’t be violating a Constitutional right.

Rich’s post earlier was one of his most honest: This is about gun control, not saving lives.

 

[Rich2018]

QED. Yes, this isn’t about saving lives; “This is about GUN CONTROL” AKA gun banning.

That's what the gun control lobby use as motivation for GUN CONTROL

By all means start your own thread.

Why don't you include legalizing heroin because that's how you really feel about human life.

So enough of your what-about-ism
Enough of your crocodile tears.

 

[Divine_Wind]

That's what the gun control lobby use as motivation for GUN CONTROL

By all means start your own thread.

Why don't you include legalizing heroin because that's how you really feel about human life.

So enough of your what-about-ism
Enough of your crocodile tears.

What thread do you want me to start? You made a false statement and I corrected your perception with an example. I’m on topic. If I was off topic, then you were off topic first.

 

[Rich2018]

...you made a false statement and I corrected your perception with an example. I’m on topic. If I was off topic, then you were off topic first.

Which one was that ?


This is a gun control debate.


You have previously argued for legalizing heroin - a move resisted by law makers for obvious reason regarding public health, so don't try to pretend to be concerned about deaths caused by motor accidents, because you're not.

So enough of your what-about-ism and crocodile tears.

 

[Divine_Wind]

...This is a gun control debate.

You have previously argued for legalizing heroin - a move resisted by law makers for obvious reason regarding public health, so don't try to pretend to be concerned about deaths caused by motor accidents, because you're not.

So enough of your what-about-ism and crocodile tears.

ROFLMAO! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for typifying the average anti-gun proponent’s debate technique: Slam people for being off-topic then go off-topic with a personal attack.

Anyone who reads this has an opportunity to see your views and mine. They can decide in the voting booth which view is an authoritarian deception and which side supports their Constitutional rights.

 

[Rich2018]

ROFLMAO! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for typifying the average anti-gun proponent’s debate technique: Slam people for being off-topic then go off-topic with a personal attack.

Anyone who reads this has an opportunity to see your views and mine. They can decide in the voting booth which view is an authoritarian deception and which side supports their Constitutional rights.

It was intended to show your lack of concern over human life is less than genuine.

 

[Divine_Wind]

It was intended to show your lack of concern over human life is less than genuine.

I’m confident most members of this forum can decide for themselves which of us is more concerned about saving both American lives and American rights and who is just an agent seeking to deprive them of those rights and lives.

 

[Rich2018]

I’m confident most members of this forum can decide for themselves which of us is more concerned about saving both American lives and American rights and who is just an agent seeking to deprive them of those rights and lives.

I'm confident in saying that anyone promoting the legalization of HEROIN doesn't care about life and is at best disingenuous when speaking about it.

 

[Nickyjo]

Well.. yes.. because all the available research SHOWS THAT THE "easily available weapons".. ARE NOT.. ARE NOT... ARE NOT.. a factor. Japan..where guns are almost non existent. Higher suicide rate than the US. Mexico.. with fewer guns than the US..with draconian gun laws.. more dangerous than the us.

We KNOW.. without a doubt.. that "easily available weapons".. are not a factor. We KNOW.. as all studies and information show.. that things like demographics, law enforcement, economics and healthcare are the factors that matter.

BUT.. despite KNOWING THIS.. what is the focus "but its the guns".. from folks like yourself. No matter the facts... you focus on the guns. And completely divert from the factors that WORK.

The fellow in Sandyhook had a history of mental illness.. his mother apparently tried to get him help and failed. He KILLED HER AND STOLE HER GUNS..

And your answer? Its not.. "gee maybe we need to have better mental health"...its "BACKGROUND CHECKS".

The same with the young man in florida.. the same with the soldier with the PTSD that shot up a nightclub.

PERISH the THOUGHT.. that gee...maybe we need to address the giant hole we have in mental health services in this country..and stop not only a good portion of the mass shootings like Sandyhook.. but also dramatically reduce suicides of ALL TYPES.... not just "suicide with gun".. which you liberal seem to only care about.

Yeah.. as a medical provider.. that's what I fear.. that we continue to focus on the gun.. when every piece of information shows is not the issue... and not on the factors that REALLY matter.

My only point is that to deny that guns are NOT a factor. I was nearly shot by three plain clothes cops. They assumed I was Puerto Rican, they didn’t ID themselves, they were narcs awakened early and looked scruffy. I almost flooded the car in reverse towards the uniforms 100 feet behind me. My pal said to wait. So perhaps racism, lack of sleep, and sloppy police work were factors. So was their assumption that and the fellow with me had guns. When the dust settled, I asked them why they didn’t flash badges to begin with. One replied that the last time he did that it was almost shot out of his hand. So sloppy police work, their prejudices and the omnipresence of weapons. The other case I have brought up involved a friend paralyzed who might be walking if the jealous guy who shot him couldn’t easily find a gun. Yes, guns are not the only cause of such incidents. It to discount them is absurd.

 

[Nickyjo]

Fewer cars, fewer car deaths. If your true aim (no pun intended) is to save lives, can you at least consider that? Better mental health care and supporting legislation would help prevent about 2/3s of those gun deaths, if not more.

Absolutely, though I am not sure it would be 2/3.

 

[Rich2018]

Absolutely.

And totally irrelevant.

A case of what-about-ism

 

[Nickyjo]

Do you have *any* evidence to support that?

Again, let me point out something.

In the past 20 years the number of guns in this country has grown by ~50% by most estimates. Most of them high cap handguns and AR type rifles. Over the same period the murder rate has declined heavily.

In countries with mandatory confiscation (uk/au) you have seen their murder rate decline *slower* over the same post-buyback period compared to the US, which was increasing firearm numbers.

Correlation: More guns, less murder. Statistics.

You say: Opposite. No statistics.

You contradicted yourself. So the murder rate declined a a slower rate. The also probably don’t jail as many people as we do in the US. Also a contributing factor.

 

[TurtleDude]

What is your criteria for "minniscule".

You talk like deaths from mass shootings is almost non-existent.

Don't forget that there are far more people shot and survive - at huge personal cost - than die.

far less than those who die from many other things that you gun banners ignore-which prove the gun banning is a political weapon motivated by political hatred, not by a desire to save lives

 

[Divine_Wind]

I'm confident in saying that anyone promoting the legalization of HEROIN doesn't care about life and is at best disingenuous when speaking about it.

ROFLMAO! Says the guy who has made several posts like this:

"What-about-ism"

What about swimming pools

This is about GUN CONTROL

Stay on topic.

The fact remains you and yours seek to shred the Constitution of the United States and you don’t give a damn about how many lives are lost doing it.

Now make it all my fault and refuse to take any blame for yourself.

 

[jaeger19]

My only point is that to deny that guns are NOT a factor. I was nearly shot by three plain clothes cops. They assumed I was Puerto Rican, they didn’t ID themselves, they were narcs awakened early and looked scruffy. I almost flooded the car in reverse towards the uniforms 100 feet behind me. My pal said to wait. So perhaps racism, lack of sleep, and sloppy police work were factors. So was their assumption that and the fellow with me had guns. When the dust settled, I asked them why they didn’t flash badges to begin with. One replied that the last time he did that it was almost shot out of his hand. So sloppy police work, their prejudices and the omnipresence of weapons. The other case I have brought up involved a friend paralyzed who might be walking if the jealous guy who shot him couldn’t easily find a gun. Yes, guns are not the only cause of such incidents. It to discount them is absurd.

Its not absurd at all. Its the facts.

I really don't understand your situation and what you are trying to say with your example.. but I wil gets.

So.. you were nearly shot by three plain clothes police. How did that occur? You think because they "assumed you had guns?"...

So... you didn't right? And so your thought is that the police would have been less racist, and less sleepy and less sloppy with police work... if we banned guns?

Do you understand just how absurd that is? Think about the fact that most of the police shootings that aren't justified.. usually happen in areas that have strict gun control.. where the number of armed people is a heck of a lot less than say out in the rural areas where just about everyone has a firearm of some kind.

Sorry man but that just doesn't compute.

Now the paralyzed friend "who might be walking".. if the jealous guy couldn't "easily find a gun". Well or a car to run him over.. or a bat to hit in the head.. or a myriad of other ways that your friend could have been paralyzed by being attacked. Its absurd to think its about the gun. Think about it for more than a second.

Every piece of information shows its not the issue...

 

[jaeger19]

I'm confident in saying that anyone promoting the legalization of HEROIN doesn't care about life and is at best disingenuous when speaking about it.

You would likely be wrong about that.

 

[Rich2018]

far less than those who die from many other things that you gun banners ignore-which prove the gun banning is a political weapon motivated by political hatred, not by a desire to save lives

What-about-ism

A move to deflect criticism by the gun owning lobby.


You have convinced yourself that the desire to take your guns have some other mythical motivation.

Now what possible reason would the gun control lobby have for taking your guns? They just don't like you and want to take away your toys


Or maybe the want to install a communist tyrant in the White House and need your guns so as to stop an uprising and restore the Republic.

 

[Rich2018]

ROFLMAO! Says the guy who has made several posts like this:
The fact remains you and yours seek to shred the Constitution of the United States and you don’t give a damn about how many lives are lost doing it.

Now make it all my fault and refuse to take any blame for yourself.

Duplicate post.
Already answered.