Almost 300 migrant children removed from Texas facility described as 'appalling'

[HenryChinaski]

Can someone explain to me why we are now calling the children of illegal immigrants, migrant children? Migrant children makes it sound as if their parents or whomever brought them into this country did so legally. Which definitely isn't the case. If the so called migrant children, (Illegal Immigrant Children) were brought there legally they wouldn't be in a border patrol facility.

This all sounds like a political ploy to me.

How about we just call them "children" that are here at no fault of their own and in the care of the US government which is allowing them to sit in their own waste without food soap, toothpaste or medical care.

 

[jmotivator]

Fine. So before spending billions, you should be able to direct me to studies which demonstrate building more walls is a cost effective strategy for limiting illegal immigration.

Moving goal posts. I said walls are an effective deterent... how many border patrol personnel need to be hired to cover the entire southern boarder 24/7/365?

So you're going to spend billions of dollars to slow them down by 3 minutes?

How about 300 would-be illegals arrive at a wall, while another 300 would-be illegals arrive facing 10 border security personnel. Which group gets across first?

Again, where are the studies showing this is a cost effective strategy?

Do you think it takes a caravan of hundreds only three minutes to scale a 30 foot wall? Who the hell do you think is breaking in, Jackie Chan? :lamo

The group that has run into Border patrol personnel, instead of a wall (see above).

You don't grasp the problem. See Above.

The group that encountered the wall instead of actual personnel. (see above)

Walls are meant to slow egress in order to maximize the probability that patrols will catch those scaling the walls. Walls in prisons also don't keep prisoners from escaping, but they make keeping prisoners in prison SO much easier than having no fences. I mean hell, you know WHY these camps manage to keep all those border crossers in one place? Because they are surrounded by walls. This isn't rocket science but you seem determined to play stupid in order to support your position.

"I find it utterly bizarre to see the Republicans and their followers trying to pretend that walls " which are miles long, in the middle of the desert, are somehow comparable to a tiny fence enclosing some property in the middle of a populated area.

"I find it utterly bizarre to see the Republicans and their followers trying to pretend that walls are " a cost effective strategy for dealing with illegal immigration when so far they haven't been able to produce a shred of evidence to support this.

... You do realize that for all of your stupid hand waving, that people actual are crossing the border in those desert areas? You also realize that border patrol actually patrols those areas .. and that a wall that will definitely slow down border crossing helps border patrol actually patrol those areas? Why do you find the obvious so difficult to comprehend?

 

[jmotivator]

Uh,No. but then i don’t watch CNN.

There was little sign of any crisis when Trump arrived.

You can date the crisis almost from the day Jeff Sessions announced his zero tolerance policy.

Of course, the Administration has tried their best to cover it up. Moving people in the dead of night, lying to the public, and barring the press and elected officials from seeing inside.

Bull****. There has been a growing crisis on the boarder for over a decade. There have been numerous waves that have inundated the southern security system over that time, and they keep getting bigger, all while the Democrats keep selling them on bigger and better benefits if they make it across.

 

[TomFitz]

You're completely wrong of course, but I understand why you're trying to pitch your opinion.

How can the US Government plan for the response to the New Democratic Party's invitation to illegals?

Over 1,000,000 will have accepted the invitation this fiscal year alone.

All of them require processing. Where are they going to be housed while scam the NDP instructed them to use runs it's course through the immigration courts?

Obviously the NDP leadership doesn't care. There is no escaping that. They shut down the government to prove they don't care.

I get you think the analogies to police states and all that hype sounds cool and effective, but only to those in the liberal sphere who have been indoctrinated with the language.

Everyday Americans are far from that kind of person.

A non existent invitation from a nonexistent political party.

Now that’s an argument only a harp core Trumpster would make with a straight face!

As for the police state. &ou know as well as I do that Trump thinks he is above the law. you also can’t deny or refute the fact that the administration is trying to hide refugees and cover up the scandal. Nor can you deny that Trump has publicly called for harassment and censorship of the press.

I can document all of that,as you know.

You won’t be able to document the existence of your favorite fictional political party.

 

[TomFitz]

Bull****. There has been a growing crisis on the boarder for over a decade. There have been numerous waves that have inundated the southern security system over that time, and they keep getting bigger, all while the Democrats keep selling them on bigger and better benefits if they make it across.

Neither of your claims are true.

the flow of illegals across the border fell throughout the late 1990’s and throughout the Obama years.

Name those “bigger and better” benefits, and tell us w/hen they became law.

 

[Perotista]

How about we just call them "children" that are here at no fault of their own and in the care of the US government which is allowing them to sit in their own waste without food soap, toothpaste or medical care.

The food, soap, toothpaste, along with more facilities have been asked for for years. Congress keeps denying the funds. Even with a switch of parties, congress really doesn't want to provide any more money. In reality these kids have become political pawns in the larger game to attain political power by one or the other major political party.

I prefer to call them what they are. Children of illegal immigrants or even the old fashioned illegal aliens. Until the political games being played on immigration is ended, these kids will continue to suffer. But illegal immigration for both parties is too important of a campaign issue to solve the problem. That my friend is the bottom line.

 

[jmotivator]

Neither of your claims are true.

the flow of illegals across the border fell throughout the late 1990’s and throughout the Obama years.

LOL. No, while illegal immigration was very high in the early 2000s, we have been building towards this crisis for over a decade. And while the administration and border patrol were telling everyone what was happening on the boarder the democrats and their faithful followers scoffed at it and said it wasn't happening. Now that they have had reality slap them in the face they want to blame everyone but themselves... but they are largely responsible.

Name those “bigger and better” benefits, and tell us w/hen they became law.

Which party is currently offering free college and free healthcare for illegals?

Tell me, which do you think is more likely to attract boarder crossers? A promise of free healthcare and schooling, or a promise of incarceration and deportation? Which of those two messages drive these people north?

 

[bluesmoke]

While many attempt to hijack this thread, I’ll try to stay with what is relevant to the original subject. I take that to be it is a given that conditions in a border patrol facility housing children (under 18 years of age) are as described in the OP. And, that the poster is positing such is “a serious black eye on us as a so called “civilized and compassionate” nation.” I haven’t seen any post with proof that refutes the stated condition of the facility. I also haven’t seen any proof that these conditions could not have been avoided or be rectified now without having to pass legislation. Therefore the fault lies with the current administration regardless of who did what in the past. Nothing stops Trump from fixing this matter.

 

[TomFitz]

LOL. No, while illegal immigration was very high in the early 2000s, we have been building towards this crisis for over a decade. And while the administration and border patrol were telling everyone what was happening on the boarder the democrats and their faithful followers scoffed at it and said it wasn't happening. Now that they have had reality slap them in the face they want to blame everyone but themselves... but they are largely responsible.



Which party is currently offering free college and free healthcare for illegals?

Tell me, which do you think is more likely to attract boarder crossers? A promise of free healthcare and schooling, or a promise of incarceration and deportation? Which of those two messages drive these people north?

First of all, you tried rather weakly to walk back your own claim. Migrant families started showing up toward the end of the Obama administration.

But Trump’s bullying, blustering, race baiting and yelling for a wall made the trickle a flood.

And nobody is offering illegal aliens anything specifically. Tuition free higher education and single payer health insurance are not being touted as recruitment tools for illegal aliens, no matter how hard you try and make that substitution. One has nothing to do with the other.

I have often wondered why right wingers love this “free stuff” argument so much. Many of the people who use it bristle at even the suggestion that their benefits be cut, and rant that all the people that don’t look like them are “underserving” It’s all over forums like this all the time.

If getting “free stuff” was the real goal, instead of one imagined by right wing AM talk radio listeners, than any of these refugees could get on an airplane and go to virtually any country in the industrialized world and get a better deal.

 

[TomFitz]

While many attempt to hijack this thread, I’ll try to stay with what is relevant to the original subject. I take that to be it is a given that conditions in a border patrol facility housing children (under 18 years of age) are as described in the OP. And, that the poster is positing such is “a serious black eye on us as a so called “civilized and compassionate” nation.” I haven’t seen any post with proof that refutes the stated condition of the facility. I also haven’t seen any proof that these conditions could not have been avoided or be rectified now without having to pass legislation. Therefore the fault lies with the current administration regardless of who did what in the past. Nothing stops Trump from fixing this matter.

That’s the real pathetic aspect to this discussion.

Right wingers don’t even deny that this is a human right’s catastrophe.

Of course, blame the victims is always at the top of the list.


But they offer a range of excues. They mysteriously blame Demcrats, even though a Democratic Congress passed an Immigration REform bill years ago and Mitch McConnell has it bottled up.

Then they try to blame Democrats for not giving Trump is idiotic wall, even though it’s obvious to the entire world that Trump is trying to hold these refugees hostage over it, and equally obvious that neither he, nor his base, care about the human rights abuses being carried out in their name.

Right wingers here have tried to deny the lying and secrecy around it, too. But that hasn’t worked either.

BTW, we’ve had four DHS secreataries in two and a half years , and the post is now vacant.

 

[jmotivator]

First of all, you tried rather weakly to walk back your own claim. Migrant families started showing up toward the end of the Obama administration.

But Trump’s bullying, blustering, race baiting and yelling for a wall made the trickle a flood.

HAHAHAHA!!*GASP*HAHAHAHAHA!!! It is amazing that you probably actually believe that. Please show you work on how that logic flow goes....

And nobody is offering illegal aliens anything specifically. Tuition free higher education and single payer health insurance are not being touted as recruitment tools for illegal aliens, no matter how hard you try and make that substitution. One has nothing to do with the other.

People specifically offering free higher education and health care for illegals don't need to tout them as recruitment tools, they are, by their very nature, recruitment tool.

By your utterly broken logic, "bullying" and "race baiting" is a better draw than free college and healthcare? :roll:

Or is your assertion that these illegal immigrants believe that a wall would be effective, so they are running here while they still can? :lamo

I have often wondered why right wingers love this “free stuff” argument so much. Many of the people who use it bristle at even the suggestion that their benefits be cut, and rant that all the people that don’t look like them are “underserving” It’s all over forums like this all the time.

I'm finding it funny watching a Socialist demand that there is nothing appealing about free government funded healthcare and college. :lamo

If getting “free stuff” was the real goal, instead of one imagined by right wing AM talk radio listeners, than any of these refugees could get on an airplane and go to virtually any country in the industrialized world and get a better deal.

Oh good grief.... so you think that Trump yelling at and bullying impoverished people in Central America is why they are coming to America instead of, what, Norway? :roll: :lamo

 

[Taylor]

The Democrats simply wanted a bill in which the funds would be used ONLY for humanitarian assistance and not dispersed for immigration enforcement policies.

Yes, while it's at least a step in the right direction that Nancy "fake crisis on the border" Pelosi and Steny "there is no crisis on the border" Hoyer are finally onboard with reality, it's a shame that they just want to hand out toothpaste and not do anything to actually address the problem.

 

[Trump]

Yes, while it's at least a step in the right direction that Nancy "fake crisis on the border" Pelosi and Steny "there is no crisis on the border" Hoyer are finally onboard with reality, it's a shame that they just want to hand out toothpaste and not do anything to actually address the problem.

they want it to act like a "MASH UNIT"..no more no less

Dems want control....win the white house:doh

 

[pamak]

Yes, while it's at least a step in the right direction that Nancy "fake crisis on the border" Pelosi and Steny "there is no crisis on the border" Hoyer are finally onboard with reality, it's a shame that they just want to hand out toothpaste and not do anything to actually address the problem.

The claim was about the manufactured supposedly crisis of national security against the "invaders," which supposedly forced Trump to send more troops to the border.
Democrats never denied that there was not a humanitarian crisis. On the contrary, they consistently showed more concern that this administration regarding the treatment of immigrants and kids, like when they protested the long-term separation from their families.

 

[Taylor]

The claim was about the manufactured supposedly crisis of national security against the "invaders," which supposedly forced Trump to send more troops to the border.
Democrats never denied that there was not a humanitarian crisis. On the contrary, they consistently showed more concern that this administration regarding the treatment of immigrants and kids, like when they protested the long-term separation from their families.

Well, no. Trump specifically referenced a "humanitarian crisis" at the border in January, during the SotU address, to which the Democrats guffawed. It would be months before they would acknowledge the fact.

And let's not forget that way back in 2014, when Obama faced a similar situation, Pelosi was quite reluctant to call kids without beds or soap or toothpaste a "crisis" - instead calling it an "opportunity" - no doubt that's the way she sees things now.

And this crisis - that some call a 'crisis' - we have to view as an opportunity,"

 

[pamak]

Well, no. Trump specifically referenced a "humanitarian crisis" at the border in January, during the SotU address, to which the Democrats guffawed. It would be months before they would acknowledge the fact.

And let's not forget that way back in 2014, when Obama faced a similar situation, Pelosi was quite reluctant to call kids without beds or soap or toothpaste a "crisis" - instead calling it an "opportunity" - no doubt that's the way she sees things now.

I do not care what Trump said!

I judge him based on his actions which showed clearly that his administration was neglecting the humanitarian issue and was focusing on the enforcement one. There is a consistent policy here going back to the administration's effort to ignore legal decisions and separate kids from their families. If Trump was REALLY interested in the humanitarian aspect of the issue, he could have used the fed power to at least try to address the problems. I gave examples before about how a fed government can cooperate with a state and use FEMA resources to shelter and supply victims of natural disasters after declarations of national emergencies. And there have been other posters here showing things like fed agencies turning away donations offered by private organizations.

 

[pamak]

And let's not forget that way back in 2014, when Obama faced a similar situation, Pelosi was quite reluctant to call kids without beds or soap or toothpaste a "crisis" - instead calling it an "opportunity" - no doubt that's the way she sees things now.

Bypassing the "whataboutism" issue, if you REALLY believe what you say, then you also indirectly make the claim that Obama's immigration enforcement policies were similar to those of Trump. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

[pamak]

By the way,

John Kelly joins board of detention center after child separation policy - Business Insider


Former White House Chief of Staff John Kelly set off a firestorm of ethics concerns when it was announced he would be joining the board of a company that detains migrant children.
Kelly, who left the White House in December 2018, was at the front of the administration's policies that separated migrant children from their families at the border.
Several lawmakers condemned the move as corruption, but current laws only constrain certain lobbying activities, so Kelly is technically in the clear to profit off a policy he pushed.

I am pretty sure that the more crowded a detention facility is, the bigger the profit for the company

 

[SheWolf]

Almost 300 migrant children removed from Texas facility described as 'appalling' This is sad and is a serious black eye on us as a so called “civilized and compassionate” nation.

I am not at all surprised. Trump ran on mass deportations and said Muslims should register and their immigration banned. He never cared about the rights of people in this country other than his base, and the base doesn't care about anybody's rights but their own. With the dehumanizing speech like calling these kids invaders and the flippant attitude of kids already having been reported dying and being lost in US custody, it's not surprised Trump and his base got us here.

 

[ocean515]

A non existent invitation from a nonexistent political party.

Now that’s an argument only a harp core Trumpster would make with a straight face!

As for the police state. &ou know as well as I do that Trump thinks he is above the law. you also can’t deny or refute the fact that the administration is trying to hide refugees and cover up the scandal. Nor can you deny that Trump has publicly called for harassment and censorship of the press.

I can document all of that,as you know.

You won’t be able to document the existence of your favorite fictional political party.

LOL

Thanks for sharing your always quaint and entertaining stuff.

 

[morgoth]

I am not at all surprised. Trump ran on mass deportations and said Muslims should register and their immigration banned. He never cared about the rights of people in this country other than his base, and the base doesn't care about anybody's rights but their own. With the dehumanizing speech like calling these kids invaders and the flippant attitude of kids already having been reported dying and being lost in US custody, it's not surprised Trump and his base got us here.

Trump feeds his base daily doses of White "privilege".These people aren't one of us, so they must be shunned, and aren't real Americans.

 

[SheWolf]

Mike Pence was just on national TV lying and snickering that he couldn't get soap and tooth paste to these people, because of Congress. Morning Joe exposed that has a lie when donations were turned away at these detention centers. They have necessities on hand, but for whatever reason, the detention center workers are denying then soap and tooth paste. Pence is a jackass for snickering and misleading the public. He has also used his own religion to push for discrimination in the state of Indiana. So much for good Christian values these days. I know I have lost a lot of respect for American Christians after seeing them flock to Trump, and now this.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Mike Pence was just on national TV lying and snickering that he couldn't get soap and tooth paste to these people, because of Congress. Morning Joe exposed that has a lie when donations were turned away at these detention centers. They have necessities on hand, but for whatever reason, the detention center workers are denying then soap and tooth paste. Pence is a jackass for snickering and misleading the public. He has also used his own religion to push for discrimination in the state of Indiana. So much for good Christian values these days. I know I have lost a lot of respect for American Christians after seeing them flock to Trump, and now this.

I've met actual Christians. Pence is not one.

 

[SheWolf]

Yes, while it's at least a step in the right direction that Nancy "fake crisis on the border" Pelosi and Steny "there is no crisis on the border" Hoyer are finally onboard with reality, it's a shame that they just want to hand out toothpaste and not do anything to actually address the problem.

You are one of the posters here who talks about your religion, and this much more your own personal failure as any else you try to blame. None of you Christian Trump supporters were ready to sound the bell when kids were in cages and sleeping with foil blankets: when children were first reported to die in custody: when the US government admitted to lossing track of kids and essentially creating orphans. The media exposed this one horrible center, and I am sure there are dozens more. Trump and his supporters have shown little to no concern for these people from the beginning. They have been dehumanized as criminals, invaders, and job takers. and here you are wanting to blame it on Obama. This shouldn't be about politics. It's about human rights, and you had to have your concern for human rights on the back burner if you voted for Trump.

 

[SLC]

I've met actual Christians. Pence is not one.

So you have never met Pence. Check!