2246 preserved fetal remains found in abortionist's garage

[minnie616]

Good post Minnie. If this is actually your belief then I think we have something in common. My position is rather simple. If life ends when a person takes their last breath then by logic it must begin when a person takes their first breath. However I still struggle with the fact that a fetus is breathing while in the womb. Definitely not air, but still filling it's lungs for the moment when it's birthed.

Actually the lungs are filled with fluid when it is birthed. From the flowing:

At birth, the baby's lungs are filled with fluid. They are not inflated. The baby takes the first breath within about 10 seconds after delivery. This breath sounds like a gasp, as the newborn's central nervous system reacts to the sudden change in temperature and environment.

Once the baby takes the first breath, a number of changes occur in the infant's lungs and circulatory system:

Increased oxygen in the lungs causes a decrease in blood flow resistance to the lungs.
Blood flow resistance of the baby's blood vessels also increases.
Fluid drains or is absorbed from the respiratory system.
The lungs inflate and begin working on their own, moving oxygen into the bloodstream and removing carbon dioxide by breathing out (exhalation).

Changes in the newborn at birth: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Also it is the woman’s placenta not the lungs of the of the fetus that does the exchange of oxygen and carbon dioxide while inside the womb.

The mother's placenta helps the baby "breathe" while it is growing in the womb.

Oxygen and carbon dioxide flow through the blood in the placenta. Most of it goes to the heart and flows through the baby's body.

Changes in the newborn at birth: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

 

[Overitall]

Actually the lungs are filled with fluid when it is birthed. From the flowing:



Changes in the newborn at birth: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Minnie I think we generally agree on this. I would, however, cite this . . .

How do babies breathe in the womb?

By 10–12 weeks of gestation, developing babies begin taking "practice" breaths. But these breaths provide them with no oxygen, and only refill the lungs with more amniotic fluid.

. . . for your consideration. It's what I meant in regards to a fetus "breathing".

 

[minnie616]

Minnie I think we generally agree on this. I would, however, cite this . . .

How do babies breathe in the womb?


. . . for your consideration. It's what I meant in regards to a fetus "breathing".

I understand your confusion.

The article talks about “ practice breathing” which is not really the correct term for what is happening.

What they are describing is lung development and the lungs getting ready to take the first breath.

Your own link says :

Together, the umbilical cord and placenta deliver nutrients from the mother to the baby. They also provide the baby with the oxygen-rich blood necessary for growth.

This means that the mother breathes in for the baby, and the oxygen in her blood is then transferred to the baby's blood. The mother also breathes out for the baby, as carbon dioxide from the baby is moved out through the placenta to the mother's blood, the removed with exhale.

The part about “ practice breaths “ in the womb is not breathing ....it helps the lungs prepare for birth when the baby will take its first breath.

From your link:

Together, the umbilical cord and placenta deliver nutrients from the mother to the baby. They also provide the baby with the oxygen-rich blood necessary for growth.

This means that the mother breathes in for the baby, and the oxygen in her blood is then transferred to the baby's blood. The mother also breathes out for the baby, as carbon dioxide from the baby is moved out through the placenta to the mother's blood, the removed with exhale.

Substances going into the developing baby, such as oxygen, never interact with the substances leaving the baby, such as waste products. They travel through the umbilical cord through two separate blood vessels.

Lung development in the womb

Lung development is normally complete after 35-36 weeks of pregnancy. However, development varies and it's possible to miscalculate when a baby was conceived. This is why even late preterm babies often experience difficulties breathing.

Changes in the newborn at birth: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

 

[Overitall]

The part about “ practice breaths “ in the womb is not breathing

If I recall even plants "breathe". Not as we (living beings) do but it's nevertheless considered breathing. So what do you want to call what a fetus is doing when it takes in and releases amniotic fluid? It's not oxygen but the act is the same as what we do.

Edited to add: I see you edited your post. I may be confused but still I'd like to know what you would call it.

 

[Overitall]

Here's another link basically stating the same thing Minnie

Amniotic fluid: Functions and disorders

Lung and digestive system development: By breathing and swallowing the amniotic fluid, the baby practices using the muscles of these systems as they grow.

 

[minnie616]

If I recall even plants "breathe". Not as we (living beings) do but it's nevertheless considered breathing. So what do you want to call what a fetus is doing when it takes in and releases amniotic fluid? It's not oxygen but the act is the same as what we do.

Edited to add: I see you edited your post. I may be confused but still I'd like to know what you would call it.

I would call it swallowing the amniotic fluid.

In fact it is important during pregnancy that the ambiotic fluid stay at an appropriate level.

That indicates the fetus is swallowing an appropriate amount and fetus is excreting enough to remain healthy.

 

[Overitall]

I would call it swallowing the amniotic fluid.

Fair enough. I'm just citing the info one can find on medical cites. They use both terms. Is there something about their use of the term that bothers you?

 

[minnie616]

Fair enough. I'm just citing the info one can find on medical cites. They use both terms. Is there something about their use of the term that bothers you?

The term “ practice breathing” does not bother me since I know it is describing the way the lungs of the fetus prepare for birth.

But that term is somewhat confusing to a layperson.

 

[Overitall]

The term “ practice breathing” does not bother me since I know it is describing the way the lungs of the fetus prepare for birth.

But that term is somewhat confusing to a layperson.

Ok. Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective. I appreciate it.

 

[minnie616]

Ok. Thank you for taking the time to share your perspective. I appreciate it.

My pleasure.

And thanks for sharing yours.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

A fetus is both human (adj) and a (human) noun by definition, this fact will not change. If you disagree simply post one fact that proves otherwise . . .one. thanks!

You continue repeating the same made up line over and over, purporting it as proof. Sorry, your fake definition isn’t a valid argument, it’s a pathetic and obvious attempt at avoiding acknowledging the truth, that you have no evidence at all to support your false assertion.

 

[Scrabaholic]

1.) no i havent this whole thing started from someone else spouting lies. If you disagree then prove what i moved because the fact is i moved absolutely nothing . .l the whole thing was out of my hands
2.) again i made no such claim, i pointed out the fact a fetus is human when somebody else falsely claimed otherwise and then i proved that fact using their own type of sources and it was hilarious
3.) again factually wrong it has nothing to do with "ME" . .I didn't mention homosapien THE DEFINITION mentions homo sapien and uses that term to define the word HUMAN (noun) NOT ME.

YOU took it from 'human being' to 'homo sapiens'. The posts are there for all to see. I will not go around and around w/ you.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Take the argument and break it down. If life ends when a person takes their last breath then by logic it begins when they take their first.

They take their first upon live birth. However, an individual life begins at fertilization.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

No pro-choice woman has ever dehumanized a fetus and pro-choice women are no more lacking in moral conscience than ignorant males who assume they have a moral right to judge women's reproductive decisions. Who are you to claim your morality is more highly valued by God than that of a woman who makes the moral decision not to bring a child into an unsafe, unstable environment destitute of emotional and financial support. Did you think God died and appointed you judge and jury over all women?

So why do you demand exclusive rights to the fetus and exclusive rights to the man's money? Seems you want to grab rights with both hands and leave men none.

Men should have the right to abort too and if the female refuses then she has access to zero of his money.

 

[minnie616]

They take their first upon live birth. However, an individual life begins at fertilization.

I agree the first breath is upon live birth. I would also agree the embryo and pre viable fetus is scientifically alive but it’s important to remember that it remains alive only because of the woman’s life functions , her respiratory system supplying oxygen, her excretion system taking the toxins out of amino fluids , her digestive system suppling nutrients to the embryo/ pre viable fetus ect.

If a pregnant were to die and her life systems ceased to work , a pre viable fetus would die, even if removed quickly and given the very best medical care and technology avaible.

 

[weaver2]

So why do you demand exclusive rights to the fetus and exclusive rights to the man's money? Seems you want to grab rights with both hands and leave men none.

Men should have the right to abort too and if the female refuses then she has access to zero of his money.

Women do discuss pregnancy with their husband, partner, boy friend and the decision is usually mutual. The question is not about men's money. The questions is why do religious conservative males think they have a right to dictate to women that they must carry any pregnancy because they have determined a fetus is a homunculus.

 

[weaver2]

The topic is supposed to be about a dead man's collection of preserved fetal remains. Which should have engendered only one post. He's dead. Forget about it.

 

[Iron_Merc]

Abortionist enthusiasts are some of the most sick people on the planet. They will use the Constitution when it suits them and at the same time turn those backs on it. These people actually believe you should have the right to kill your offspring. In the absence of God's law you have Satan's law.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

Abortionist enthusiasts are some of the most sick people on the planet. They will use the Constitution when it suits them and at the same time turn those backs on it. These people actually believe you should have the right to kill your offspring. In the absence of God's law you have Satan's law.

According to Biblical law, you have the right to kill your child for being rebellious. Leviticus 20:9. At least the pro-choice camp supports human life once it's capable of choice.

 

[Brochacholomigo]

Hardly. When you take your last breath you die. No life at that point. A baby/fetus is a living being while inside the mothers womb. Refusal of the left to acknowledge that a baby is living is just their choice.

We acknowledge that it's a living organism, but that doesn't mean it has any more of a claim to personhood than the placenta it's stored in.

 

[Overitall]

They take their first upon live birth. However, an individual life begins at fertilization.

That the embryo and fetus holds the status of life is without question. But cancer cells are likewise life. We don't object to the removal of them from a person when medically necessary. Why should a fetus get any more consideration?

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[Scrabaholic]

That the embryo and fetus holds the status of life is without question. But cancer cells are likewise life. We don't object to the removal of them from a person when medically necessary. Why should a fetus get any more consideration?

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I am pro choice.

 

[Iron_Merc]

The trespass in question was not a casual, slip-of-the-tongue curse, but a deep-seated rebellion, an ongoing attitude of hatred that had to be dealt with severely. In other words, the punishment was not for minor infractions but for determined defiance. Also note this is old testament and we are no longer under the law. We are under the dispensation of Grace. Also this doesn't speak to abortion it speaks to extreme crime and extreme punishment. Also note this punishment could not be rendered by the parent they would have to go through proper judicial channels to carry it out.

Also you believe in God? Do you have a faith that he is real and God's word is true?

 

[Overitall]

I am pro choice.

My bad Scrabaholic, usually when I piggy back off of another's post I will indicate it.

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[AGENT J]

You continue repeating the same made up line over and over, purporting it as proof. Sorry, your fake definition isn’t a valid argument, it’s a pathetic and obvious attempt at avoiding acknowledging the truth, that you have no evidence at all to support your false assertion.

Aaaand another dodge that changes zero FACTS. sWEET!
A fetus is both human (adj) and a (human) noun by definition, this fact will not change. If you disagree simply post one fact that proves otherwise . . .one. thanks!