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13 arrested, 4 injured at Portland right wing rally: Police

Except that fascism is defitionally an ultra right wing nationalist philosophy.

Except, not.

That's revisionist spin talking. The National Socialist party was nothing like right-wing. The fascists were the more mainstream socialist party, comfortably left of center, and the Communists were the more extreme version. One reason they hated each other is that they were fighting for the same political turf.
 
Seems like a rather dramatic rewriting of history. The US fought fascism because they declared war on the US and dragged them into the war. In fact you can pretty much make the argument that FDR was a fascist himself who took many of his ideas from Hitler and Mussolini.

That would be a bit much, but fascism was mainstream left in its day. Hitler's racial cleansing by genocide gave it a bad name but it used to be quite respectable.
 
Seems like a rather dramatic rewriting of history. The US fought fascism because they declared war on the US and dragged them into the war. In fact you can pretty much make the argument that FDR was a fascist himself who took many of his ideas from Hitler and Mussolini.

You can make such an argument.
It would be the argument of someone who thinks that Hitler was a lefty.
That means it would be a revisionist argument.
No wonder it seems like a dramatic rewriting of history.
Reality always seems dramatic to revisionists.
 
Except, not.

That's revisionist spin talking. The National Socialist party was nothing like right-wing. The fascists were the more mainstream socialist party, comfortably left of center, and the Communists were the more extreme version. One reason they hated each other is that they were fighting for the same political turf.

Seems like we have this tired argument about once a week.
It never ends well for the revisionists, which by the way are the ones who think the National Socialists were lefties.
 
This is what happens when idiots like Jonah Goldberg get treated as if they actually know anything.
Ptolemy was more credible.
 
It never ends well for the revisionists, which by the way are the ones who think the National Socialists were lefties.
True... who in their right mind would call a bunch of big government, collectivist, anti-capitalist, anti-big business, identitarian social justice warriors left wing?
 
Grow up. The "Nazis" weren't at Berkeley when Antifa was attacking people and vandalizing buildings.

Berkely was not the subject of this thread. Maybe you should address what is being talked about before telling anyone to grow up.
 
easy they shout down the freedom of others.
they loot attack and threaten people for voicing opinions that
are different than theirs.

They do not believe in free speech or other freedoms unless it is theirs.
They oppose any and all opposition to them with threat of force and use of force.

that pretty much is fascism to a tee.
fascism by definition.

dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy.

while they do not have dictatorial power they are using other methods to accomplish the same goals.

Ummm... yeah no thats a very limited definition. Fascism is not merely dictatorial power.
 
There is nothing anyone from the left can do in terms of civi disobedience that would be acceptable to you. In the case of the extremists acting out in Portland the only difference between them is the ones from the right got a permit to demonstrate and that government permission makes them acceptable to you and the other lunatics, the ones from the left, are unacceptable because they don't have a piece of paper with a bureaucrat's hoofprint on it. But none of that means a damned thing at the street level.
I'm not expressing approval of street violence, just contempt for the idea that permission from the government makes a damned bit of difference. It doesn't.

Hell i was personally vilified on this very forum for peacefully protesting the klan. Shows how dishones many of these calls for non violence really are.
 
Antifa are not anarchists. You are confusing the two groups (Antifa and Blackbloc anarchists) because they both dress in black and wear masks. They have different goals, despite the common dress. Antifa (Anti-fascist) exists only to oppose the Alt-right such as Neo-nazis, Klan and white nationalists, but they use their own violent tactics against them. You cant fight the alt-right peacefully, so the Antifa have turned their own tactis on them.


What are black bloc anarchists? - Big Think

One should remember black bloc is not a group, but a tactic.
 
KKK = Nazis
Americans = Anti-facists

Seems clear to me which side to support. :shrug:

Yes, most Americans are anti fascism. However, antifa is anti American, anti freedom (obviously, they aim to suppress free speech), and all in on anarchy. So, no, they would not be too keen on American troops trying to restore freedom.

Oh, are you falling for the name "antifa" and thinking they are somehow pro freedom and liberty? They obviously are not.
 
Not only did Hitler detest socialism, liberalism and communism, but he was appeased in Europe partly because powerful American industrialist and some of the European right saw him and Mussolini as valuable strong men against Stalin.
Henry Ford, perhaps this nation's leading antisemite AND right wing industrialist, was awarded the highest civilian honor Hitler could bestow upon him, in 1938.
In America for some, the appeasement continued apace.
Prescott Bush was indicted under the "Trading With the Enemy Act" of 1942.

"While Hitler's attitude towards liberalism was one of contempt, towards Marxism he showed an implacable hostility… Ignoring the profound differences between Communism and Social Democracy in practice and the bitter hostility between the rival working class parties, he saw in their common ideology the embodiment of all that he detested -- mass democracy and a leveling egalitarianism as opposed to the authoritarian state and the rule of an elite; equality and friendship among peoples as opposed to racial inequality and the domination of the strong; class solidarity versus national unity; internationalism versus nationalism".
--Alan Bullock, "Hitler: A Study in Tyranny", abridged edition, (New York: HarperCollins, 1971)

FACT:
The very last vestiges of socialism were viciously purged from the NSDAP on The Night of the Long Knives.

FACT:
An entire security apparatus, the Left wing SA (Sturmabteilung) was outright ELIMINATED and REPLACED by the SS (Schutzstaffel).

FACT:
Gregor Strasser was assassinated and his brother Otto, the leading light of the leftist faction of the party, was exiled, first to Austria, then to Prague, Switzerland and France.

And when it was clear to him that Hitler's SS still intended to quench their thirst for his blood as well, (to the tune of a $500 thousand dollar bounty on his head) he went to Bermuda by way of Portugal, leaving a wife and two children behind in Switzerland.

In 1941, he emigrated to Canada, where he was the famed "Prisoner of Ottawa".
He never stopped looking over his shoulder for agents of doom.

Right wing political philosophy follows a top-down hierarchy, and Socialism is all about egalitarian ideals, which are horizontal.
Fascism is a top-down hierarchy and in the case of the Nazis, the top people in these groups actually believed there are people beneath them - inferior to them. There is nothing egalitarian about fascism for the simple reason that fascists adhere to the ideology of ultranationalism, which places all others on Earth beneath them.
In the case of Hitler and the Nazis, it was the twin dragons of hypernationalism and white supremacism.

Hitler’s values: radical inequality, the fostering of a tiny elite, belief in ancestral notions of nationhood and racial purity – were values of the far right, not the egalitarian values of socialism or liberalism. Since when do leftists speak of racial purity?

Before attaining dictatorial power Hitler allied himself with political conservatives, he had a fan club of conservatives outside Germany, he was largely funded by union-hating big business (like Ford) that saw him as the man to smash the socialists, and he was appeased internationally in part because of misguided conservatives who thought him a worthwhile ally.

Himmler, well before the Wannsee Conference, and after the "Night of the Long Knives", which eventuated the disposal of any and all left-sympathizing party members, including Gregor Strasser and Ernst Roehm, about 1938, enunciated to a mass meeting of the SchutzStaffel (S.S.):

"We are of the right and of order. We shall sweep away Jews, Bolsheviks, and liberal democracies as one sweeps away flies."

I already beat two others to a rhetorical pulp last week on this whole "Hitler was a lefty" bit of nonsense, three if you count other forums.
It's someone else's turn.
 
Looking back, I thought that turned out to be a false report, perpetrated by the left.

Where are the arrests?

:roll: Your thoughts are irrelevant.
 
Antifa are not anarchists. You are confusing the two groups (Antifa and Blackbloc anarchists) because they both dress in black and wear masks. They have different goals, despite the common dress. Antifa (Anti-fascist) exists only to oppose the Alt-right such as Neo-nazis, Klan and white nationalists, but they use their own violent tactics against them. You cant fight the alt-right peacefully, so the Antifa have turned their own tactis on them.


What are black bloc anarchists? - Big Think

Antifa's two main colors represent something. Black represents anarchy and red represents communism.
That is why the Antifa logo is two flags, a black flag and a red flag.

By the way, the cross pollination between Black Bloc and Antifa is a matter of record.
 
Not really. Anarchists can be dictators in their own right whether they realize it or not.
A dictatorship is nothing more than 1 group of people that lord's its power over others.
often with the use of force to silence people that would stand against them.

That is what antifa does. they very much use force and the threat of force to shut down any and all
conversation that they do not agree with. So yes i do know what i am talking about.

Actually most antifa members are socialists not anarchists. Facism itself is a socialist construct since the only way that facism works is by huge
government control and suppression of speech and thought. which is what antifa does.

you will never find 1 fascist government that steeped itself in conservatism.

Fascism is extreme conservatism. The harkening back to the mythic glorious golden years in the past that never existed, the hatred of degeneracy, the strict adherence to traditional roles, the worship of the alpha male, the worship of strength, etc. Those are extreme right wing values.
 
:roll: Your thoughts are irrelevant.

The link you supplied has no evidence. Only someones words, has other links not supporting that allegation, but shows and only Antifa members were arrested that day.

Did you notice "The Mercury," a Portland publication was involved? I know better than to trust it.

I live in Portland. I'm pretty sure I would have heard of such an incident if valid.
 
Seems like we have this tired argument about once a week.
It never ends well for the revisionists, which by the way are the ones who think the National Socialists were lefties.
Facts are facts. The National Socialist party was socialist. It is what it is.

You say it never ends well for revisionists, which you then prove by attempting a lame deflection. The logical construction is that socialists are lefties and fascists were socialists implies fascists are lefties. A implies B and B implies C means A implies C. It's straight out of the textbook (BTW I aced the course).
 
Facts are facts. The National Socialist party was socialist. It is what it is.

You say it never ends well for revisionists, which you then prove by attempting a lame deflection. The logical construction is that socialists are lefties and fascists were socialists implies fascists are lefties. A implies B and B implies C means A implies C. It's straight out of the textbook (BTW I aced the course).

Except fascists were not socialists, as I just finished proving. I don't know what textbook you're talking about but it is incorrect.
Mussolini was a socialist early on and so was Giovanni Gentile. Mussolini was ousted from the Italian Socialist Party in 1914, and began the process of a radical shift from the extreme Left to extreme Right.
On 5 December 1914, Mussolini denounced orthodox socialism for failing to recognize that the war had made national identity and loyalty more significant than class distinction.
Mussolini admired Plato's "The Republic", which he often read for inspiration.
The Republic expounded a number of ideas that fascism promoted, such as rule by an elite promoting the state as the ultimate end, opposition to democracy, protecting the class system and promoting class collaboration, rejection of egalitarianism, promoting the militarization of a nation by creating a class of warriors, demanding that citizens perform civic duties in the interest of the state, and utilizing state intervention in education to promote the development of warriors and future rulers of the state.

Gentile described characteristics of Italian Fascism at the time: compulsory state corporatism, Philosopher Kings, the abolition of the parliamentary system, and autarky.
 
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They wouldn't have lost rights if they stayed in Florida either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They could march in Florida, if they so choose. They could march in Seattle, if they so choose. Or do they need permission from antifa?
 
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