‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement[W:25]

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Black September ring a bell?

You mean when the Jordanians kicked out the PLO guys in their country? That's not the subject we were talking about, but hey, on the plus side, even the "incredibly evil" Jordanians(according to those defending the land grab, anyway) have been fighting terrorists.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

You mean when the Jordanians kicked out the PLO guys in their country? That's not the subject we were talking about, but hey, on the plus side, even the "incredibly evil" Jordanians(according to those defending the land grab, anyway) have been fighting terrorists.

You asked for slaughter...

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Which has zero to do with the Sinai. Or, actually, anything I've said in that post.

Gaza?

Here is a clue. Two nations. Israel for it. Palestinians sided with other Arabs states and refused the idea of two states. ISREAL won. And absorbed what she could. The rest became Jordanian or Egypt. There was no modern state of Palestine until Gaza was ceded over.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

You asked for slaughter...

Is the PLO now composed of unarmed Jewish civilians and nobody informed us? It's irrelevant to what is being discussed.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Gaza?

Here is a clue. Two nations. Israel for it. Palestinians sided with other Arabs states and refused the idea of two states. ISREAL won. And absorbed what she could. The rest became Jordanian or Egypt. There was no modern state of Palestine until Gaza was ceded over.

Yet Israel still grabbed the Sinai even though there was no justification for it whatsoever, ensuring that there would be yet another war.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Yet Israel still grabbed the Sinai even though there was no justification for it whatsoever, ensuring that there would be yet another war.

And?

Egypt seized Gaza with no justification prior. Jordan seized the West Bank with no justification prior.

They had been at war since 1948..... With intermittent cease fires in between.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

And?

Egypt seized Gaza with no justification prior. Jordan seized the West Bank with no justification prior.

They had been at war since 1948..... With intermittent cease fires in between.

And.....it's a habit of constantly seizing more and more land, and then pretending like they are "liberating it". With, of course, history being suitably altered to fit the narrative.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

No, actually I do believe it was the US doing the heavy lifting of occupying Germany as well, or the Western chunk at least as "Europe" couldn't do anything as a whole at that point for the simple reason that Europe was totally fragmented and basically leveled.

The fact remains that Israel had no rightful claim to the Sinai yet occupied it anyway in what was little more than a land grab. All they did was ensure that there would be another war, because Egypt was not going to let Israeli occupation of that land go unanswered. As I recall, that directly lead to the Yom Kippur War, where the Arabs came within inches of crushing the Israelis.

There is no fact about it, as you just tried to say.

Israel most certainly had to right to claim possession of the Sinai until they felt secure.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Except we've already been over this repeatedly, and I have shown that despite your claims, Israeli tactics still inflict huge amounts of civilian casualties. But as usual you like the mental capacity to comprehend the facts of the situation, and thus have to try to justify your arguments with the usual nonsense of "you hate Jews!" As usual, you can't seem to comprehend the very obvious fact that there was no "oppression" involved.

Except you only strengthen the terrorists with your indiscriminate slaughter of random bystanders. You don't care about them since they are only "barbarians", but others do.

Yes, your delusional claims are incredibly stupid. Where exactly have I said all Jews, or even some Jews, must die?

The blame for civilian casualties in Israeli strikes goes directly to Hamas, Hezbollah, and the other terrorist groups, that intentionally use civilians as human shields. It does not go to the Israelis. Israel does not target innocent civilians. Hamas and Hezbollah do.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

And.....it's a habit of constantly seizing more and more land, and then pretending like they are "liberating it". With, of course, history being suitably altered to fit the narrative.

Land that was used to attack Israel. I assure you that if Mexico used Tijuana to stage terrorist attacks on the American Soutwest, US troops would occupy Tijuana.

 

[What if...?]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Land that was used to attack Israel. I assure you that if Mexico used Tijuana to stage terrorist attacks on the American Soutwest, US troops would occupy Tijuana.

And if San Diego was slowly annexing parts of Tijuana and part of San Diego was supposed to remain Tijuana all along?

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Land that was used to attack Israel. I assure you that if Mexico used Tijuana to stage terrorist attacks on the American Soutwest, US troops would occupy Tijuana.

The Sinai Penisula was not being used to “stage terrorist attacks”. It was Egyptian land that the Israelis grabbed and sparked another war as a result.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

The blame for civilian casualties in Israeli strikes goes directly to Hamas, Hezbollah, and the other terrorist groups, that intentionally use civilians as human shields. It does not go to the Israelis. Israel does not target innocent civilians. Hamas and Hezbollah do.

It’s pretty clear that when you fire rockets into a densely populated civilian area, you are going to kill civilians, yet that does not deter the Israelis. First responsiblity for civilian casualties goes to the people who are actually inflicting them.

 

[rocket88]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

And?

Egypt seized Gaza with no justification prior. Jordan seized the West Bank with no justification prior.

They had been at war since 1948..... With intermittent cease fires in between.

Jordan didn't seize the West Bank, it was given to them by the allies after WWI. The whole Kingdom of Jordan (originally Transjordan - as in "across the Jordan") was created after the fall of the Ottoman Empire to reward the Hashemi family for siding with the allies. The West Bank was put within the borders of this Kingdom that was created.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Jordan didn't seize the West Bank, it was given to them by the allies after WWI. The whole Kingdom of Jordan (originally Transjordan - as in "across the Jordan") was created after the fall of the Ottoman Empire to reward the Hashemi family for siding with the allies. The West Bank was put within the borders of this Kingdom that was created.

Except after WWII it was ceded to the Palestinians... As part of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine....



As soon as the bullets started flying Jordan dropped all pretenses and occupied the West Bank.

Jordan's annexation wasn't recognized by anyone but England.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

It’s pretty clear that when you fire rockets into a densely populated civilian area, you are going to kill civilians, yet that does not deter the Israelis. First responsiblity for civilian casualties goes to the people who are actually inflicting them.

Take a moment and think....

If one targets the TERRORISTS and the TERRORISTS hide among the civilians you will have some collateral damage.

On the other hand the TERRORISTS are INTENTIONALLY targeting civilians.

A teensy weensy difference that appears lost on you.

Add to that the Israeli's don't fire rockets every day into Palestinian land. However in many cases the rockets and mortars were an everyday thing.

 

[joG]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Which has zero to do with the Sinai. Or, actually, anything I've said in that post.

It has to do with the nonsensical pining for the rights one the palestiniens gave up by those attacks. Those prior demands lost their legitimacy.

 

[joG]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

There was no "liberation" involved; we've been over this. Nobody even died in the "cleansing" when the Jordanians were in charge. The random thought of turning over a chunk of Germany for a Jewish state was a nonstarter from what I've heard.

- you are referring to 1916?
- as I said, we made a mistake.

 

[CJ 2.0]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Except we've already been over this repeatedly, and I have shown that despite your claims, Israeli tactics still inflict huge amounts of civilian casualties. But as usual you like the mental capacity to comprehend the facts of the situation, and thus have to try to justify your arguments with the usual nonsense of "you hate Jews!" As usual, you can't seem to comprehend the very obvious fact that there was no "oppression" involved.

Except you only strengthen the terrorists with your indiscriminate slaughter of random bystanders. You don't care about them since they are only "barbarians", but others do.

Yes, your delusional claims are incredibly stupid. Where exactly have I said all Jews, or even some Jews, must die?

This post is not even remotely fact-based, beginning to end.

- there are not “huge civilian casualties” and to say that given the numerous other examples in the region (both involving the US and exclusively with Arab nations) is to clearly and unambiguously demonstrate ideological bias

- re “oppression”, systematic and complete ethnic cleansing of people who had lived in the territory unbroken for thousands of years and desecration of religious sites, combined with reducing Christians to subservient subjects woth reduced rights is generally viewed as oppressive.

- “indiscriminate” is a transparent falsehood and you should know better


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[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

And if San Diego was slowly annexing parts of Tijuana and part of San Diego was supposed to remain Tijuana all along?

That statement makes no sense.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

This post is not even remotely fact-based, beginning to end.

- there are not “huge civilian casualties” and to say that given the numerous other examples in the region (both involving the US and exclusively with Arab nations) is to clearly and unambiguously demonstrate ideological bias

- re “oppression”, systematic and complete ethnic cleansing of people who had lived in the territory unbroken for thousands of years and desecration of religious sites, combined with reducing Christians to subservient subjects woth reduced rights is generally viewed as oppressive.

- “indiscriminate” is a transparent falsehood and you should know better


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We've been over this before. In the 2014 conflict alone there were more than three thousand children killed and wounded. That's not a small sum, and trying to play the "but America" card does not absolve you of that. Hell, there were more kids and wounded in that conflict by Israeli strikes than Israeli casualties, both dead and wounded, civilian and military, total.

"Between 2,125[22] and 2,310[20] Gazans were killed and between 10,626[20] and 10,895[53] were wounded (including 3,374 children, of whom over 1,000 were left permanently disabled[54]). 66 Israeli soldiers, 5 Israeli civilians (including one child)[55] and one Thai civilian were killed[16] and 469 IDF soldiers and 261 Israeli civilians were injured.[19]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel–Gaza_conflict

People who use the "holy war" rational have no room to scream "you are being biased" ever, by the way.

Nice use of melodramatics but whether or not someone is "unbroken" is totally irrlevent, and considering how many of the first Israeli settlers came from the remnants of the European Jewish populations and were largely armed by European governments such as Czechoslovakia, it's also not entirely factual. Perhaps you should have included the people of the city in your very detailed armistice if you were particularly concerned about them being kicked out. As it was, the worst thing you can say is "they smashed up a few historical sites". And frankly, compared to the kind of atrocities which happened throughout the twentieth century, that's not even an issue.

You killed or crippled thousands of kids alone. The strikes are incredibly indiscriminate--- but hey, it's only "barbarians" right?

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

- you are referring to 1916?
- as I said, we made a mistake.

No, we have been referring to this period

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

- you are referring to 1916?
- as I said, we made a mistake.

No, we have been referring to this period

This period

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

- you are referring to 1916?
- as I said, we made a mistake.

No, we have been referring to this period

This period.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

There is no fact about it, as you just tried to say.

Israel most certainly had to right to claim possession of the Sinai until they felt secure.

There was no "right" to a territorial land grab in order to pretend that they "didn't feel secure". Stealing the Sinai directly undermined Israeli security because it lead to another war.