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Too Many Guns, Another Example

Actually gun violence has been going down . We don't need gun control . We need idiot control.
 
Mortician said:
Actually gun violence has been going down . We don't need gun control . We need idiot control.
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And you control idiots with guns by taking their guns away and yes, sadly that means taking everyone's guns away.
 
Bullseye said:
That's not what's been shown. Your examples come nowhere near being a national registry.
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According to the ATF, there were 442,000 requests from law enforcement in 2018 for data that they hold

So yes, it does show that a national database on all guns (and yes it will take time to compile) would be heavily used


You just showed they already have that.
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No, if you read the link, I showed there were 442,000 requests by law enforcement foe data that the ATF had

The ATF does NOT have a registry on gun ownership.
 
Chillfolks said:
Besides they high interest rates their poor security is one of the reasons I don't bank with Capital One.
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So what - you claimed that banks aren't susceptible to data hacks



A CCP databases provides no details about if you do own a weapon or not much less a detailed description of all the firearms you own.

It's not falling apart in the least. You just arent honest enough to admit having a CCP database is not the same as having a detailed list of all firearms owned.
Capital One (above)

[/quoye]
Don't use them



Not true. Guns are valuable to theives. If you're going to break in when noone is home why not target a house you know has valuable items in it verse just wishing to find something of value.


Again this time read it slower see if that helps. A CCP database doesn't show anyone if you even own a gun. A registry would not only show if you did but exactly what types and how many you own. Do you see the difference yet?
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Rich2018 said:
According to the ATF, there were 442,000 requests from law enforcement in 2018 for data that they hold

So yes, it does show that a national database on all guns (and yes it will take time to compile) would be heavily used
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And where do you think that data comes from?



Rich2018 said:
No, if you read the link, I showed there were 442,000 requests by law enforcement foe data that the ATF had

The ATF does NOT have a registry on gun ownership.
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I read the link. Apparently the system is already functioning quite well based on your numbers. What you're showing supports my contention; when law enforcement has the weapon than already have facilities to trace ownership. But when the gun is absent or illegal this system won't do any good.
 
Chillfolks said:
Besides they high interest rates their poor security is one of the reasons I don't bank with Capital One.
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So what - you suggested that banks aren't susceptible to data hacks

Post #167

"I trust my local bank and the security they have in place..."


Shows that someone made a blanket statement with zero research.



A CCP databases provides no details about if you do own a weapon or not much less a detailed description of all the firearms you own.
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No and so what?
It provides important details about you - you know important stuff like your name and address


You just arent honest enough to admit having a CCP database is not the same as having a detailed list of all firearms owned.
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OK so it doesn't list your guns but it lists your name and where you live - you know so people could find you

It also has your photo ID - at least it does in Georgia, far more important than what guns you own


Don't use them
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So what, you trust you "local" bank - are you claiming that their security is better than that at Capital One ?

Not true. Guns are valuable to theives. If you're going to break in when noone is home why not target a house you know has valuable items in it verse just wishing to find something of value.
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A list of CCW holders would also give them a probable list of addresses where guns are likely to be found - if anything a list a addresses where there are guns, is more likely to be a list of houses for criminals to avoid



Again this time read it slower see if that helps. A CCP database doesn't show anyone if you even own a gun....
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But a probable address where there's a gun, so an address for a burglar to avoid.
 
Rich2018 said:
So what - you suggested that banks aren't susceptible to data hacks

Post #167

"I trust my local bank and the security they have in place..."


Shows that someone made a blanket statement with zero research.






No and so what?
It provides important details about you - you know important stuff like your name and address




OK so it doesn't list your guns but it lists your name and where you live - you know so people could find you

It also has your photo ID - at least it does in Georgia, far more important than what guns you own




So what, you trust you "local" bank - are you claiming that their security is better than that at Capital One ?




A list of CCW holders would also give them a probable list of addresses where guns are likely to be found - if anything a list a addresses where there are guns, is more likely to be a list of houses for criminals to avoid






But a probable address where there's a gun, so an address for a burglar to avoid.
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Let's post your personal valuable property and address....
 
Rich2018 said:
Well it would but you're adamant in your certainty that such a ban will never be passed into US law.


So, aside from your paranoia, why do you oppose a mandatory gun registry. What harm could it do to the innocent?
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you want it-I am therefore against it. It imposes unconstitutional hassles on honest gun owners, has no value whatsoever in crime fighting efforts, and doesn't apply to criminals.

but if you oppose my rights and want something-that is reason enough to oppose it
 
Rich2018 said:
So what - you claimed that banks aren't susceptible to data hacks


.
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Completely false. I never claimed any such thing. I said I trusted my banks security more than I did the Federal Government. That is not the same as claiming they are not susceptible to an attack.
 
Bullseye said:
And where do you think that data comes from?
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I honestly don't know.

But the ATF have gun experts; what they don't have data on is who has what guns

So if a gun is found at a murder scene, they can probably tell you when it was made and if it has even been used in a crime, but the can't tell you who owns it.

I read the link. Apparently the system is already functioning quite well based on your numbers. What you're showing supports my contention; when law enforcement has the weapon than already have facilities to trace ownership. But when the gun is absent or illegal this system won't do any good.
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No of course not - it would take years to compile all the data and fill in the blanks.

It could take a long time to trace gun ownership. Assuming all the gun dealers are still in business.

But what if all you have is a bullet ? Determine the caliber and run a list of all guns in the area firing that caliber. If one belongs to a known associate of the victim, you already have a lead.

I can think of lots of uses for a mandatory gun registry.
 
TurtleDude said:
you want it-I am therefore against it....
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Typical knee jerk gun owner resistance


It imposes unconstitutional hassles on honest gun owners, has no value whatsoever in crime fighting efforts, and doesn't apply to criminals...
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Why would it be unconstitutional ? What clause of the Constitution would it breach ?

It has a ton of value in solving gun crimes

And yes it would also apply to criminals. They may register a gun before becoming a criminal, or the gun they have may have belonged to an "honest" citizen who registered it


but if you oppose my rights and want something-that is reason enough to oppose it
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If I supported your rights, you'd still oppose a gun registry

Do you fear gun confiscation that much ?
 
Chillfolks said:
Completely false. I never claimed any such thing. I said I trusted my banks security more than I did the Federal Government. That is not the same as claiming they are not susceptible to an attack.
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Yes and you were shown how a national bank is susceptible.

If you trust your local bank with your data (knowing that Capital One had a major security breach), why would you not trust the ATF with a national firearms database ?
 
What good would a mandatory registration do if large numbers of gun owners don't comply, seems that it would pretty much nullify any such law.
I know some here are delusional enough to believe everyone would comply, it only goes to show that they really don't understand who their fellow Americans are.
 
Rich2018 said:
Typical knee jerk gun owner resistance





Why would it be unconstitutional ? What clause of the Constitution would it breach ?

It has a ton of value in solving gun crimes

And yes it would also apply to criminals. They may register a gun before becoming a criminal, or the gun they have may have belonged to an "honest" citizen who registered it





If I supported your rights, you'd still oppose a gun registry

Do you fear gun confiscation that much ?
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why would any sane gun owner support something a hard core gun banner wants to hassle gun owners with

what possible benefit do gun owners get from registration
 
Rich2018 said:
So what - you suggested that banks aren't susceptible to data hacks

Post #167

"I trust my local bank and the security they have in place..."


Shows that someone made a blanket statement with zero research.
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I'm married to the person in charge of the security for the bank, technically a Credit Union, so actually yes I have done some reaserch on the subject.

No and so what?
It provides important details about you - you know important stuff like your name and address


OK so it doesn't list your guns but it lists your name and where you live - you know so people could find you
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Yeah so does a phonebook. That's not the same as as listing the amount and types of firearms I own.
It also has your photo ID - at least it does in Georgia, far more important than what guns you own
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No photo in my state.


So what, you trust you "local" bank - are you claiming that their security is better than that at Capital One ?
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They are less of a target.
A list of CCW holders would also give them a probable list of addresses where guns are likely to be found - if anything a list a addresses where there are guns, is more likely to be a list of houses for criminals to avoid
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Its a list of possible, but we disagree on if it's a deterrent.

But a probable address where there's a gun, so an address for a burglar to avoid.
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Or an address to target, especially if it's a registry letting the burglar know exactly how many and what types he can find inside.
 
Rich2018 said:
Yes and you were shown how a national bank is susceptible.

If you trust your local bank with your data (knowing that Capital One had a major security breach), why would you not trust the ATF with a national firearms database ?
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Because I don't trust they would adequately protect such a database. A breach would allow criminals to have a wish list of what guns they would like to steal. Why would you trust the ATF to protect gun owners information knowing they can't? Would the ATF offer restitution to anyone who had their firearms stolen they way a bank would for a hack? Would the ATF offer free private security to anyone effected by a hack the way a bank would threw a Credit monitoring service. We both know the answer is they wouldn't. Why do you want to help criminals victimize citizens that exercise a right you wish they didn't have?
 
Rich2018 said:
I honestly don't know.

But the ATF have gun experts; what they don't have data on is who has what guns

So if a gun is found at a murder scene, they can probably tell you when it was made and if it has even been used in a crime, but the can't tell you who owns it.




No of course not - it would take years to compile all the data and fill in the blanks.

It could take a long time to trace gun ownership. Assuming all the gun dealers are still in business.

But what if all you have is a bullet ? Determine the caliber and run a list of all guns in the area firing that caliber. If one belongs to a known associate of the victim, you already have a lead.

I can think of lots of uses for a mandatory gun registry.
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Gun dealers being out of business was the purpose of the system you cited above. Remember?
 
Rich2018 said:
Seriously, I gave up arguing with him.
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it's predicable. i mention women getting gunned down and they do the Rush/Sean on me.

at least we know what's important.
 
Fledermaus said:
Do you have ANY EVIDENCE she would have been alive if there were no gun involved?
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i get that it's important to you to change the subject.

everyone knows why and that women getting gunned down isn't a subject that you talk about.
 
CaughtInThe said:
i get that it's important to you to change the subject.

everyone knows why and that women getting gunned down isn't a subject that you talk about.
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well it seems everyone now knows that your arguments are not ones you can back up and that you merely continue to insinuate that legal gun ownership is the ONLY reason why these victims are dead
 
Fledermaus said:
Is that a YES or a NO?

Do you have ANY EVIDENCE she would have been alive if there were no gun involved?
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He won't back his claim up, because you do understand what the purpose of constantly posting pictures of people (almost always white women-who are far less likely to be murdered by gun shot than black males) without any support insinuating that they are dead ONLY due to legal gun ownership., is to smear legal gun owners and ownership.
 
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