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It finally happened in my hometown

vegas giants said:
You can't get perfect enforcement of laws unless you live in a police state. We have the most effective law enforcement in the world that is very high tech and we also incarcerate more people than anyone on earth.

It cant be done with lax gun laws
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“Perfect” is ideal, not realistic. There are already thousands of gun laws on the books around the country that are minimally enforced or not enforced at all. I’m not suggesting anything even remotely comparable to a police state. Just enforcing the laws we already have would go a long way towards reducing firearms related deaths/murders.
 
vegas giants said:
Did you read the methodology of your safewise link?

I did. It excludes 3 states....one being the safest state in America....and is a list of median cities not large cities.


Dude...major fail. You are done here
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You are welcome to provide your own evidence that NYC is the safest city in America. I presented evidence that questions that assertion..... you disagree.. that's fine.. you don't like the evidence.. that's also fine. BUT you also have have the opportunity to present your own evidence to back up your assertion.

Which so far.. twice you have failed to do so... so.. the only one failing here.. is you.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
“Perfect” is ideal, not realistic. There are already thousands of gun laws on the books around the country that are minimally enforced or not enforced at all. I’m not suggesting anything even remotely comparable to a police state. Just enforcing the laws we already have would go a long way towards reducing firearms related deaths/murders.
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It cant be done. If it could you could name me a place that has done it. Basically you would need to double the prison population which would be massively expensive. They have tried this for brief periods but always give up in the end due to the massive costs.
 
vegas giants said:
It cant be done. If it could you could name me a place that has done it. Basically you would need to double the prison population which would be massively expensive. They have tried this for brief periods but always give up in the end due to the massive costs.
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Now we’re talking about two separate issues, law enforcement and criminal justice.

Enforcing existing laws is possible. In many locales, I’d guess it would require additional resources to achieve, but still doable.

Criminal justice, on the other hand, has been very badly in need of review and change for a long time. Prisons are overpopulated, in large part, due to excessively harsh and unbalanced sentencing guidelines. Trump’s recently signed prison reform was a step in the right direction.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Not at all. I appreciate truth and a funny joke too. You missed the mark on the former, but hit the bullseye on the latter. :mrgreen:
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If I hit the bullseye on the latter that must mean you're hurt by the fact that most gun deaths in the USA that are not suicides or gang related are in fact, justifiable homicides.

RaleBulgarian said:
Absolutely, existing laws should be enforced. No argument there however, laws aren’t what is being discussed. Numbers/statistics are, and factually speaking, more innocent people are murdered by firearms in America than any other 1st world country. By multiples.
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Not when you subtract suicides, gang related gun killings, and justifiable homicides.
 
DebateChallenge said:
If I hit the bullseye on the latter that must mean you're hurt by the fact that most gun deaths in the USA that are not suicides or gang related are in fact, justifiable homicides.


Not when you subtract suicides, gang related gun killings, and justifiable homicides.
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Prove both of your assertions.

* No such thing as justifiable homicide.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
1. Factually, more innocent people are murdered by firearms in America than any other 1st world country, by multiples.
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Even if that's true, that doesn't mean people don't get murdered by other means in other 1st world countries.
 
jaeger19 said:
You are welcome to provide your own evidence that NYC is the safest city in America.
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vegas giants has been asked time and time again to provide evidence about NYC being the safest city in the USA, he has failed miserably each time.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Even if that's true, that doesn't mean people don't get murdered by other means in other 1st world countries.
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Uh-huh. That isn’t what we’re talking though, is it?

You gonna provide proof to support the claim you made in post #831?
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Uh-huh. That isn’t what we’re talking though, is it?

You gonna provide proof to support the claim you made in post #831?
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How about you go to these other 1st world countries, find the families of the victims who were killed by bombings, stabbings, vehicle ramming, etc. and tell them that at least their loved ones weren't killed by guns.
 
vegas giants said:
Our murder rate is highest too
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Overall perhaps but when you look at it at a state by state basis that changes. New Hampshire which is one of the most gun friendly states in the country has an intentional homicide rate of 1.0 per 100,000 people. That is better than Canada which is 1.68, France which is 1.35, and the United Kingdom which is 1.2

On the other hand if you want to look at Maryland which is one of the least gun friendly states in the country its got an intentional homicide rate of 9.0 per 100,000 people. That is way above the national average of 5.35 and even higher than some undeveloped countries.

Unlike most other countries, the USA is made up of many states, 50 to be exact, and the laws differ greatly from state to state. So it really needs to be analyzed from a state to state basis.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Overall perhaps but when you look at it at a state by state basis that changes. New Hampshire which is one of the most gun friendly states in the country has an intentional homicide rate of 1.0 per 100,000 people. That is better than Canada which is 1.68, France which is 1.35, and the United Kingdom which is 1.2

On the other hand if you want to look at Maryland which is one of the least gun friendly states in the country its got an intentional homicide rate of 9.0 per 100,000 people. That is way above the national average of 5.35 and even higher than some undeveloped countries.

Unlike most other countries, the USA is made up of many states, 50 to be exact, and the laws differ greatly from state to state. So it really needs to be analyzed from a state to state basis.
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You want to compare one state to a country? Why not compare the US to the EU. Oh....wait....lol
 
vegas giants said:
You want to compare one state to a country? Why not compare the US to the EU. Oh....wait....lol
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The US can't be compared to the EU as the EU is made up of many different countries, each with its own set of laws.
 
DebateChallenge said:
vegas giants has been asked time and time again to provide evidence about NYC being the safest city in the USA, he has failed miserably each time.
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Just add it to the very very long list of assertions he has made with no evidence.
 
DebateChallenge said:
The US can't be compared to the EU as the EU is made up of many different countries, each with its own set of laws.
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Wait...
Didn't you want to compare states to countries??

Major fail
 
DebateChallenge said:
Overall perhaps but when you look at it at a state by state basis that changes. New Hampshire which is one of the most gun friendly states in the country has an intentional homicide rate of 1.0 per 100,000 people. That is better than Canada which is 1.68, France which is 1.35, and the United Kingdom which is 1.2

On the other hand if you want to look at Maryland which is one of the least gun friendly states in the country its got an intentional homicide rate of 9.0 per 100,000 people. That is way above the national average of 5.35 and even higher than some undeveloped countries.

Unlike most other countries, the USA is made up of many states, 50 to be exact, and the laws differ greatly from state to state. So it really needs to be analyzed from a state to state basis.
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This is hilarious
 
jaeger19 said:
Just add it to the very very long list of assertions he has made with no evidence.
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My point exactly. He should crawl back into the hole he was in for the last six months or so.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Prove both of your assertions.

* No such thing as justifiable homicide.
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WTF?

the killing of a person in circumstances which allow the act to be regarded in law as without criminal guilt.
 
TurtleDude said:
WTF?

the killing of a person in circumstances which allow the act to be regarded in law as without criminal guilt.
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Good call. I believed that homicide and murder are synonymous, which is correct, but not completely correct. Just verified that you are correct (as implied by your “WTF?). Killing another in a lawful act of self defense is considered justifiable homicide. My mistake.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Good call. I believed that homicide and murder are synonymous, which is correct, but not completely correct. Just verified that you are correct (as implied by your “WTF?). Killing another in a lawful act of self defense is considered justifiable homicide. My mistake.
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justifiable homicide normally means the person who did the killing was stopping a violent crime, or protecting the safety of himself, others or society. Then there is excusable homicide which is less "favored" but still not a criminal offense. Example-you are engaged in a gun fight with several violent criminals who attacked you on the street, and you return fire at one, but miss-and hit an innocent person 100 yards behind the criminal. Or (this happened years ago), a person who is legally armed, comes across a situation where a person holding a firearm appeared to be about to murder a cop on the ground. The legally armed citizen shot and killed the person with gun, only to find out that the scene was staged by student film makers at a nearby college. The shooter was not charged, since the DA ruled that his actions were excusable
 
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