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Gun control sure works NOT

VanceMack said:
You aren’t doing yourself any favors.
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I don't seek to.

The point is that gunlovers, when presented with a story of a mass shooting, dismiss it as a single anecdote.

Yet jump with glee when there's a fatal shooting in a country with strict gun control.

The contradiction is lost on them.


The fact that a story of a British guy being shot dead makes the news is because it's so rare.


A story of a US guy getting shot dead only ever makes the local news.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Because the U.S. is not the UK
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No s**t Sherlock !


No, the USA doesn't have anything like the gun control laws that the UK does.

Give Americans the protection of UK-style gun control laws and see the difference in lives saved.
 
Rich2018 said:
No s**t Sherlock !
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but somehow you expect me to believe that one-size-fits-all when it comes to law?


No, the USA doesn't have anything like the gun control laws that the UK does.
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Well yeah it's a different country. I thought that was clear.

Give Americans the protection of UK-style gun control laws and see the difference in lives saved.
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If they wanted that kind of law that would vote for legislators that would propose that kind of law and that would pass that kind of law.
 
CLAX1911 said:
but somehow you expect me to believe that one-size-fits-all when it comes to law?
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Why wouldn't British style gun laws work in the USA ?

Is it because it would be 1776 all over again if any US government tried to pry our guns from our cold, dead fingers ???

C'mon tell us why America is so special it couldn't adopt gun control laws....


Sounds like gun lovers' excuse 3a and 3b


...well yeah it's a different country. I thought that was clear....
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The same country that US law was based upon ?


...if they wanted that kind of law that would vote for legislators that would propose that kind of law and that would pass that kind of law.
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Yes they would


So far not enough people have been killed to sway public opinion

Clearly you're OK with 40,000+ firearms deaths per year.
 
Rich2018 said:
I don't seek to.

The point is that gunlovers, when presented with a story of a mass shooting, dismiss it as a single anecdote.

Yet jump with glee when there's a fatal shooting in a country with strict gun control.

The contradiction is lost on them.


The fact that a story of a British guy being shot dead makes the news is because it's so rare.


A story of a US guy getting shot dead only ever makes the local news.
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In a country where guns are banned, the fact that criminals can still get guns and commit murders SHOULD be a big deal. Makes all those people clamoring for gun bans look rather stupid and it proves all they really care about is targeting law abiding citizens.


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VanceMack said:
In a country where guns are banned, the fact that criminals can still get guns and commit murders SHOULD be a big deal. Makes all those people clamoring for gun bans look rather stupid and it proves all they really care about is targeting law abiding citizens.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Firearms are NOT BANNED in the UK; rather they are more difficult to obtain than in the US.
 
Somerville said:
Firearms are NOT BANNED in the UK; rather they are more difficult to obtain than in the US.
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Sure. Just like when leftists claim they aren’t ‘banning’ guns here...just ARs, semiautos, any weapon with detachable magazines, any weapon that can hold more than 10 rounds, etc. plus a requirement for applications, permits and licenses, registration, have them stored at certain places...but not ‘banned’. And it still doesn’t stop criminals.


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CLAX1911 said:
Culture, history. The fact that the United States isn't there UK.
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So, ban guns and seize all illegal guns.

The USA now has British levels of gun ownership.


What's the problem.

You're just parroting excuse # 3
 
VanceMack said:
In a country where guns are banned, the fact that criminals can still get guns and commit murders SHOULD be a big deal. Makes all those people clamoring for gun bans look rather stupid and it proves all they really care about is targeting law abiding citizens.
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is that like saying the USA has laws outlawing rape but rapes still occur...and this makes people who promote legislation to punish rapists and sex offenders look stupid.


Yes there are still a small number of people shot in the UK. But it is WAY lower than in the USA.


UK gun laws prove that you CAN significantly reduce gun crime by banning guns.


Since the last piece of gun legislation in the UK (1996), there has been ONE mass shooting.



The USA had 345 mass shootings in 2017 alone.



Are you REALLY saying that isn't something worth achieving ?
 
VanceMack said:
Sure. Just like when leftists claim they aren’t ‘banning’ guns here...just ARs, semiautos, any weapon with detachable magazines, any weapon that can hold more than 10 rounds, etc. plus a requirement for applications, permits and licenses, registration, have them stored at certain places...but not ‘banned’. And it still doesn’t stop criminals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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But it might reduce the number of suicides, almost 60% of suicides in America are by a self-inflicted gunshot.
 
Rich2018 said:
is that like saying the USA has laws outlawing rape but rapes still occur...and this makes people who promote legislation to punish rapists and sex offenders look stupid.


Yes there are still a small number of people shot in the UK. But it is WAY lower than in the USA.


UK gun laws prove that you CAN significantly reduce gun crime by banning guns.


Since the last piece of gun legislation in the UK (1996), there has been ONE mass shooting.



The USA had 345 mass shootings in 2017 alone.



Are you REALLY saying that isn't something worth achieving ?
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You keep referring to the Vegas shooter. What effect did registration have on him?
 
Somerville said:
But it might reduce the number of suicides, almost 60% of suicides in America are by a self-inflicted gunshot.
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How? 1-There is no statistical evidence that idnicates people are running out to buy firearms to commit suicide. 2-The UK has suicide rates that mirror ours and their preferred method is hanging. Japans suicide rate is greater than ours and they use poison, jumping from tall buildings, and stepping in front of trains. New Zealand, Australia, Sweden, slightly lower but comparable, Finland slightly higher but comparable...and all that proves is that people that are motivated to commit suicide WILL. Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Belgium, India, all higher.

Ah...but the US researchers say if the people in the US didnt use guns, they would be less successful right? EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET manages to find a way to commit suicide by means OTHER than firearms but YOU would maintain that if Americans couldnt use guns, THEY would be different than everyone else.

:roll:

Such a ridiculous argument.
 
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Rich2018 said:
is that like saying the USA has laws outlawing rape but rapes still occur...and this makes people who promote legislation to punish rapists and sex offenders look stupid.


Yes there are still a small number of people shot in the UK. But it is WAY lower than in the USA.


UK gun laws prove that you CAN significantly reduce gun crime by banning guns.


Since the last piece of gun legislation in the UK (1996), there has been ONE mass shooting.



The USA had 345 mass shootings in 2017 alone.



Are you REALLY saying that isn't something worth achieving ?
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You are being ridiculous. I said from the get go you cant compare the countries. I also pointed out the FACT that PRIOR to the gun ban in Australia there have been 25 mass killings in 22 years. There were 19 in the 25 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_in_Australia

In the UK, prior to the Dunblane Massacre which triggered their extreme gun laws, there was ONE mass murder in the prior 25 year...The Hungerford massacre. SINCE the Dunblane Massacre there has been ONE as well, not counting the 4 terrorist attacks.

Your numbers of 'mass shootings' are greatly exaggerated. you are using CNN numbers that count every ganng related activity with multiple victims...and thats fine...but what are you doing to target the actual GANGS and violent criminals that are perpetrating those violent crimes?
Nothing.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
 
VanceMack said:
How? 1-There is no statistical evidence that idnicates people are running out to buy firearms to commit suicide. 2-The UK has suicide rates that mirror ours and their preferred method is hanging. Japans suicide rate is greater than ours and they use poison, jumping from tall buildings, and stepping in front of trains. New Zealand, Australia, Sweden, slightly lower but comparable, Finland slightly higher but comparable...and all that proves is that people that are motivated to commit suicide WILL. Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Belgium, India, all higher.

Ah...but the US researchers say if the people in the UK didnt use guns, they would be less successful riught? EVERYONE ELSE ON THE PLANET manages to find a way to commit suicide by means OTHER than firearms but YOU would maintain that if Americans couldnt use guns, THEY would be different than everyone else.

:roll:

Such a ridiculous argument.
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I didn't and would never, claim that making it more difficult to obtain a firearm would STOP suicides, I simply wrote that it might REDUCE the number as many of the methods used to kill oneself take more time and often allow others to intervene.

Sorry, UK suicide rate is approximately 13.2 per 100,000. The US suicide rate is approximately 15.5 per 100,000. Japan's suicides are 18.5 per 100K

Russian rate is over 30 per 100K -- looks like Putin and the oligarchs are doing a great job running their country into the ground.
 
VanceMack said:
You are being ridiculous. I said from the get go you cant compare the countries....
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Sounds like excuse # 3 coming up:

You can't ban guns in the USA because there's just so many of them.
It's in our culture...it's impossible for Americans (the minority with guns that is) to live without them


Excuse # 3 is ridiculous


...I also pointed out the FACT that PRIOR to the gun ban in Australia there have been 25 mass killings in 22 years. There were 19 in the 25 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre....
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OK, and your point ?


That the Australian gun ban has reduced mass shootings ?




...in the UK, prior to the Dunblane Massacre which triggered their extreme gun laws, there was ONE mass murder in the prior 25 year...The Hungerford massacre. SINCE the Dunblane Massacre there has been ONE as well, not counting the 4 terrorist attacks....
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Correct me if I got you wrong, are you saying that there wasn't much of a gun problem in Australia and the UK before their respective gun control legislation ?

Well yes you may have a point that Aussie and British gun crime was nowhere near as bad as it is currently in the USA...but their respective governments decided to act anyway.

So the conclusion is that gun control is even MORE necessary in the USA than it was in Australia and the UK.



The difference is the 2nd amendment.

Repeal the 2a and we're in business to resolve America's gun problem.
 
noonereal said:
That is because we have no national laws of consequence. You can't have 50 different sets of regulations and different city and town ordinances within that and have anything but the mess we have.
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So are you saying the country should be regulated entirely at the federal level?
 
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