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Charlize Theron Is An Idiot

And the German thing?

It proves my point. Its an easy example that natural rights exist. IF rights don't exist unless its law.. then you should proudly and easily state that the holocaust WAS NOT a violation of human rights. that no rights were violated because what was done was legal in Germany.

but you won't state that will you.? Why not? Because.. regardless of the law.. you and most people.. would say that regardless of the law.. the holocaust was a human rights violation.

Proves nothing...if anything it proves I'm correct.

The Germans recognized no rights for the Jews.

We do.

WHich is correct? How do you know?
 
Humans have invented lots of things. Where did religion come from? Where did democracy come from? Where did Communism come from? Where did poetry come from? Where did philosophy come from?

And the concept of rights also came from human consciousnesses. We invented the concept.

Exactly.. we humans invented the concept.. it came from us naturally. .. No need for government or laws...

Our laws often reflect what we naturally believe.

Now.. whether you want to say that its "god given".. or that its because of genetics expression or even cultural evolution... It originates with us naturally.
 
Proves nothing...if anything it proves I'm correct.

The Germans recognized no rights for the Jews.

We do.

WHich is correct? How do you know?

Its not a matter of "who is correct"..

the minute that you acknowledge that people recognize that the Jews had rights despite the law.. you have admitted that there is such a thing as natural rights.
 
I never wrote that rights exist with or without law. I do claim that we use laws to protect and enforce rights.

Well that's the question of whether natural rights exist or not.

IF you think a right can exist despite the law (for example that the Holocaust was a human rights violation.. or that forced female circumcision is a human rights violation) .. then you believe in "natural" rights.

IF you think that rights only exist when a government/law makes it a right.. then you don't believe in natural rights. But then.. it means that you think that the government is the source of your rights.. And if that government determines that a right doesn;t exist.. well then you really can't complain about having your rights violated.

.
 
Inherent how? What genes? Where do they come from? And if we have them naturally, why dont animals? (And the part I bolded explains it...for all animals including humans)

Edit: exactly what separates humans from the other animals in this naturally inherent concept? Not sentience, animals have lives and needs and instincts even without the same level of sentience as humans.. You make it sound like some super-power.

And the bold pretty much means exactly what I've been saying. If we didnt conceptualize them...recognize them...they wouldnt exist.

So we conceptualize them. It's not like I'm suggesting that God gave them to us. The point is that natural don't come from a legal system. They don't require a legal system. They are widely recognized as rights that are part of being human. You can, and did, point out some outlier societies that don't recognize a right to life or property rights but they are a tiny minority over the span of 2000+ years since the Greeks came up with the initial idea. You don't need a law that says "murder is wrong" because pretty much everyone agrees it is. You don't need a law that says "someone has a right to self defense" because it's been recognized that humans are allowed to defend themselves since the time we lived in caves.
 
And yet, I vividly remember people on this board arguing that allowing people to bring guns in bars on a large scale is a good idea

Well I do think its a good idea to have armed security at bars.
 
Oh, I certainly wouldn't assume that. People have this interesting habit of not following laws they don't happen to like,
No. I sometimes don't like low speed limits on certain roads and I often don't like getting red lights, but I still obey the speed limit and I still stop at red lights.

and I would definitely say those who get concealed carry permits are no exception to that rule.
If somebody is out to break the law why would they bother to get a carry permit? Why wouldn't they just carry without the permit?

The problems with legit dealers selling to Mexican drug cartels is a serious issue, especially given that everything up to and including .50 sniper rifles have made their way across the Rio Grande.
Or they just might manufacture them in Mexico.
 
Carry on.

Typical American hate.

You disagree with someone therefore they are an "idiot"

No, if Charlize's dad was an innocent man who was killed by a criminal with a gun and as a result she becomes anti gun rights than I might sympathize with her a bit. I wouldn't agree with her but I would see where she's coming from. But that was not the case, her dad was an abusive drunkard who was shot in self defense by her mom and as such she's become anti gun rights. That's why I call her an idiot.

I love how you attack her family, really adds to the flavor of the item,
Im not attacking her family, at least not intentionally. Im attacking a drunken deceased (which is a good thing) loser that just happened to be her dad.

and is solid proof to me the United States is dying a slow, hateful death.
Hate on, hate on.
The USA is not dying, its coming back stronger than ever and it will continue to do so especially with Trump as President.
 
Guns are just like smack. A false sense of security. Y'all are holding the wolf by the ears all over again.
If guns were just a false sense of security than police wouldn't carry them.
 
Unless you want to claim that being a drunken loser should earn the death penalty you dont have a case.

No, violently attacking somebody should in some cases earn the death penalty in that the victim should be justified in using deadly force in self defense. And drunken losers do happen to often violently attack people.
 
No, violently attacking somebody should in some cases earn the death penalty in that the victim should be justified in using deadly force in self defense. And drunken losers do happen to often violently attack people.

Life is getting cheaper everyday.
 
Its not a matter of "who is correct"..

the minute that you acknowledge that people recognize that the Jews had rights despite the law.. you have admitted that there is such a thing as natural rights.

Not at all...we believe the Jews had rights because we accorded them rights that we conceived. There's no acknowledgement of some natural endowment. None at all. And the fact that another culture chose to not believe they did...did not accord them rights...pretty much proves it.
 
Well that's the question of whether natural rights exist or not.

IF you think a right can exist despite the law (for example that the Holocaust was a human rights violation.. or that forced female circumcision is a human rights violation) .. then you believe in "natural" rights.

WHo says? You are providing all examples that prove me right: if those people have natural rights...why are they ignored by those cultures? Because those cultures do not acknowledge rights for those people. It's completely a mechanism of social convention.

IF you think that rights only exist when a government/law makes it a right.. then you don't believe in natural rights. But then.. it means that you think that the government is the source of your rights.. And if that government determines that a right doesn;t exist.. well then you really can't complain about having your rights violated.

.

Never said that either. What I said was: rights are a man-made concept. If a govt chooses to create laws that recognize, protect, and enforce those rights, that's fine. Are you saying that rights dont exist if there are no laws upholding them?

Any entity that can conceive of its own set of rights and has the power to protect them...or violate them...has rights. They may or may not be ones that you agree with but as demonstrated by Nazi Germany...certainly that entity can declare rights AND act on them.

None of that makes rights 'natural'.
 
So we conceptualize them. It's not like I'm suggesting that God gave them to us. The point is that natural don't come from a legal system. They don't require a legal system. They are widely recognized as rights that are part of being human. You can, and did, point out some outlier societies that don't recognize a right to life or property rights but they are a tiny minority over the span of 2000+ years since the Greeks came up with the initial idea. You don't need a law that says "murder is wrong" because pretty much everyone agrees it is. You don't need a law that says "someone has a right to self defense" because it's been recognized that humans are allowed to defend themselves since the time we lived in caves.

How are they remotely even relevant if there's no legal system? What use are they? For the 'glorification of man?'

Lots of cultures have mores and laws and behaviors that are widely accepted. They have those things in common because they enabled humans to live together in social units without killing each other.

And nobody ever 'allowed' humans...or other animals...to protect themselves (self-defense). That's an instinct and people just defended themselves...and if it didnt work, they got eaten or their mate stolen.
 
No, if Charlize's dad was an innocent man who was killed by a criminal with a gun and as a result she becomes anti gun rights than I might sympathize with her a bit. I wouldn't agree with her but I would see where she's coming from. But that was not the case, her dad was an abusive drunkard who was shot in self defense by her mom and as such she's become anti gun rights. That's why I call her an idiot.


Im not attacking her family, at least not intentionally. Im attacking a drunken deceased (which is a good thing) loser that just happened to be her dad.


The USA is not dying, its coming back stronger than ever and it will continue to do so especially with Trump as President.



Hate and more hate

Calling someone an idiot or moron because you disagree with them is childish and hateful

and anymore typically American


we will not speak again

i don't deal with socks
 
Life is getting cheaper everyday.

Because some people believe there's justification for drunks violently beating other people? I agree.
 
Because some people believe there's justification for drunks violently beating other people? I agree.

You know or should know what I meant, so I conclude that your post sucks.
 
You know or should know what I meant, so I conclude that your post sucks.

After reading many of your other posts...pretty sure I nailed it.
 
This is why, even though I am liberal, I cannot be a gun banner.
Wifey is a 100% service connected disabled Navy vet who uses a power wheelchair full time.
I look at her little 115 pound body and see a large slow moving target, and I'd be just fine with her having a CCW permit.
I shudder at the thought of her being victimized by an attacker and even though we both know there's never any guarantee, we both also know she may increase her chances of survival if she is well trained and armed.
 
This is why, even though I am liberal, I cannot be a gun banner.
Wifey is a 100% service connected disabled Navy vet who uses a power wheelchair full time.
I look at her little 115 pound body and see a large slow moving target, and I'd be just fine with her having a CCW permit.
I shudder at the thought of her being victimized by an attacker and even though we both know there's never any guarantee, we both also know she may increase her chances of survival if she is well trained and armed.

I too am a liberal who is against banning guns. Good responsible sane people should be able to have them if they choose. You can have guns and gun control
 
I too am a liberal who is against banning guns. Good responsible sane people should be able to have them if they choose. You can have guns and gun control

Goddammit, why is that SO hard for some people to understand? :lamo
I grew up around a bunch of old guys who were like Elmer Fudd.
You never had to worry about these people. All they wanted to do was be able to go out and bag themselves a duck or a wascally wabbit, or a deer, and they didn't want any nonsense happening around their homes and shops.

I dated their daughters fer chrissakes. You might be in a spot of trouble if you "treated them like a whoo-urr" and they found out (did you ever get that "don't you go treatin' her like some whoo-urr" talk from one of these old dudes?) but you knew they probably weren't going to shoot you as much as make you marry the daughter.
You'd have to screw up pretty bad, in which case I guess you had it coming anyway, right?
They'd much rather be your daddy than be your killer.

You pretty much knew that they were ingrained with some kind of "what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong" sensibility. Most of them were from The Greatest Generation, and you knew that, too. They understood that being a gun owner meant they had to carry a helluva lot of responsibility, and they were sometimes the first to stand up and tell anyone that "so and so down the road had no business owning a goddam gun because he's two beers short of a six-pack" and that the G-men oughta go pay a visit and take his guns away "because that boy ain't right."

For me, that IS what GUN CONTROL is all about...a way to determine if "the boy ain't right" and has no earthly business being around any kind of guns, even as good folks get to continue enjoying the exercise of the Second Amendment.
It isn't a liberal issue, it's a universal issue that transcends party ideology.

When I lived in Texas I knew people who were the biggest ultra-Right ass clowns imaginable as far as their politics were concerned, and they had tonz o' gunz, but I also knew instinctively that they had that same "what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong" sensibility about them.

So I trusted them to have their tonz o' gunz because I also knew that they thought anyone running around in the middle of town strapped with a major piece of shooting hardware was probably some kook with a chip on their shoulder and a pee-pee that wasn't enough to satisfy anyone.
The lawmen ought to have a lot of leeway in getting to know who's who and whether or not they deserve the responsibility, and they ought to have the ability to make that determination in a way that services the security needs of the community at large.

Heavy duty hardware carries an extra demand to demonstrate extra responsibility, that's all.
It's more power, so it's more important that a person show good cause.

Even in the olden days, back in the Wild West, local sheriffs had the power to pass ordinances that said that there were to be no guns carried around in town, because the sheriff had determined that the town needed that kind of ordinance to maintain civil order.
Alcohol, gambling, and a shortage of women could set off men and have them reaching for their guns. These days it could be Xanax, PTSD or a shortage of common sense, but it's the same problem.
Towns like Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City had some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. They had borders called "dead-lines".
Cross that line carrying a gun and you could wind up dead. Turn in your shooting irons when you come into town, pick em up when you leave.

We used to know how to handle this.
 
Goddammit, why is that SO hard for some people to understand? :lamo
I grew up around a bunch of old guys who were like Elmer Fudd.
You never had to worry about these people. All they wanted to do was be able to go out and bag themselves a duck or a wascally wabbit, or a deer, and they didn't want any nonsense happening around their homes and shops.

I dated their daughters fer chrissakes. You might be in a spot of trouble if you "treated them like a whoo-urr" and they found out (did you ever get that "don't you go treatin' her like some whoo-urr" talk from one of these old dudes?) but you knew they probably weren't going to shoot you as much as make you marry the daughter.
You'd have to screw up pretty bad, in which case I guess you had it coming anyway, right?
They'd much rather be your daddy than be your killer.

You pretty much knew that they were ingrained with some kind of "what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong" sensibility. Most of them were from The Greatest Generation, and you knew that, too. They understood that being a gun owner meant they had to carry a helluva lot of responsibility, and they were sometimes the first to stand up and tell anyone that "so and so down the road had no business owning a goddam gun because he's two beers short of a six-pack" and that the G-men oughta go pay a visit and take his guns away "because that boy ain't right."

For me, that IS what GUN CONTROL is all about...a way to determine if "the boy ain't right" and has no earthly business being around any kind of guns, even as good folks get to continue enjoying the exercise of the Second Amendment.
It isn't a liberal issue, it's a universal issue that transcends party ideology.

When I lived in Texas I knew people who were the biggest ultra-Right ass clowns imaginable as far as their politics were concerned, and they had tonz o' gunz, but I also knew instinctively that they had that same "what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong" sensibility about them.

So I trusted them to have their tonz o' gunz because I also knew that they thought anyone running around in the middle of town strapped with a major piece of shooting hardware was probably some kook with a chip on their shoulder and a pee-pee that wasn't enough to satisfy anyone.
The lawmen ought to have a lot of leeway in getting to know who's who and whether or not they deserve the responsibility, and they ought to have the ability to make that determination in a way that services the security needs of the community at large.

Heavy duty hardware carries an extra demand to demonstrate extra responsibility, that's all.
It's more power, so it's more important that a person show good cause.

Even in the olden days, back in the Wild West, local sheriffs had the power to pass ordinances that said that there were to be no guns carried around in town, because the sheriff had determined that the town needed that kind of ordinance to maintain civil order.
Alcohol, gambling, and a shortage of women could set off men and have them reaching for their guns. These days it could be Xanax, PTSD or a shortage of common sense, but it's the same problem.
Towns like Tombstone, Deadwood, and Dodge City had some of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. They had borders called "dead-lines".
Cross that line carrying a gun and you could wind up dead. Turn in your shooting irons when you come into town, pick em up when you leave.

We used to know how to handle this.

We dont trust anymore, in part because the work has been so bad, in part because too many lies have been told, and in part because we have been encouraged to not trust by people who usually have their priorities messed up.
 
We dont trust anymore, in part because the work has been so bad, in part because too many lies have been told, and in part because we have been encouraged to not trust by people who usually have their priorities messed up.

yep, on one hand you have some liberals saying they don't want to ban guns but they also spew hate towards the NRA. you have other lefties demanding gun bans. You have most of them lying about guns and then they complain when we gun owners lump them together. When I see more of the "anti ban" lefties really ripping into the banners and correcting their lies (yes sports fans, an AR 15 is neither a weapon of war nor a "weapon of mass destruction") then maybe I will make a better effort to draw lines between left wing gun restrictionists vs left wing gun banners. But when most of them spew the same anti NRA anti gun owner attitude it really isn't worth our time trying to give some the benefit of the doubt.
 
Not at all...we believe the Jews had rights because we accorded them rights that we conceived. There's no acknowledgement of some natural endowment. None at all. And the fact that another culture chose to not believe they did...did not accord them rights...pretty much proves it.

Of course.. Jews had rights that "we conceived" because we believe in natural rights despite the law. Whether you are willing to verbally acknowledge some natural endowment or not is irrelevant.
 
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