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Who do we believe in the FBI Spying reports?

Given an entire major political party and its fellow travelers have gone over to the Russian enemies of the United States, a massive national reconstruction will be needed once Trump is gone whether Trump vacates the office voluntarily or is vacated from it involuntarily. While it will be done Constitutionally, there will be no more Mr. Nice Guy as occurred with the original reconstruction that ended up being derailed by its defeated enemy and other opportunist domestic enemies of the United States.
 
Tangmo said:
Given an entire major political party and its fellow travelers have gone over to the Russian enemies of the United States, a massive national reconstruction will be needed once Trump is gone whether Trump vacates the office voluntarily or is vacated from it involuntarily. While it will be done Constitutionally, there will be no more Mr. Nice Guy as occurred with the original reconstruction that ended up being derailed by its defeated enemy and other opportunist domestic enemies of the United States.
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Agreed....Completely. They can start by pulling Domestic Intelligence out of the FBI and creating a new Agency specific to the Domestic Intelligence mission. Pull in the FBI agents that satisfy the Domestic Intelligence mission currently but only after each and every one of them goes through a review and they are determined to meet the specific needs of a Domestic Intelligence role. The new Agency should have much tighter controls and protocols that can be more readily monitored than appears to be the case today within FBI's muddled dual mission.

FBI is a muddled agency with a muddled mission and muddled leadership and I think the only way out of that situation is to stop listening to "leaders" that are just fine with continuing with this muddled role for the Agency and stop thinking the cure is in the man that sits at the top of the FBI or for that matter the man that sits in the WH and deal with the simple fact That Osama still talks to us from the grave. Regardless of which President was in office when he was finally killed, it hardly matters at this point. We never recovered from that blow and that blow made us less capable when the next two big blows of OUR 21st Century experience hit us.

We have been a screaming mess in this country since 9/11, 2001. As much as has been wrong with FBI, it has all gotten much worse since 9/11 2001 and the effect of 9/11 2001 was to make the two other big 21st Century blows to America, the 2008 Financial Meltdown and the 2016 Russian Maligned Election Interference harder to handle, get our arms around, manage, get ahead of or even deal with the consequences of at all!

So one reason this is important is that we are totally frigged up at present. Senate Majority Leader just announced that he will be working hand in glove with WH lawyers as he fashions the framework for the Impeachment Trial in the Senate. How frigged up is that??

So we are a mess. But we have to start somewhere to clean it up and move forward. I would suggest that one method, one area of cleaning it up would be separating Domestic Intelligence out of the FBI and sanctioning it to a new agency fashioned specifically to the Domestic Intelligence mission that also features much tighter controls on documentation and protocols including much tighter management of the FISA Warrants process.
 
jnug said:
Agreed....Completely. They can start by pulling Domestic Intelligence out of the FBI and creating a new Agency specific to the Domestic Intelligence mission. Pull in the FBI agents that satisfy the Domestic Intelligence mission currently but only after each and every one of them goes through a review and they are determined to meet the specific needs of a Domestic Intelligence role. The new Agency should have much tighter controls and protocols that can be more readily monitored than appears to be the case today within FBI's muddled dual mission.

FBI is a muddled agency with a muddled mission and muddled leadership and I think the only way out of that situation is to stop listening to "leaders" that are just fine with continuing with this muddled role for the Agency and stop thinking the cure is in the man that sits at the top of the FBI or for that matter the man that sits in the WH and deal with the simple fact That Osama still talks to us from the grave. Regardless of which President was in office when he was finally killed, it hardly matters at this point. We never recovered from that blow and that blow made us less capable when the next two big blows of OUR 21st Century experience hit us.

We have been a screaming mess in this country since 9/11, 2001. As much as has been wrong with FBI, it has all gotten much worse since 9/11 2001 and the effect of 9/11 2001 was to make the two other big 21st Century blows to America, the 2008 Financial Meltdown and the 2016 Russian Maligned Election Interference harder to handle, get our arms around, manage, get ahead of or even deal with the consequences of at all!

So one reason this is important is that we are totally frigged up at present. Senate Majority Leader just announced that he will be working hand in glove with WH lawyers as he fashions the framework for the Impeachment Trial in the Senate. How frigged up is that??

So we are a mess. But we have to start somewhere to clean it up and move forward. I would suggest that one method, one area of cleaning it up would be separating Domestic Intelligence out of the FBI and sanctioning it to a new agency fashioned specifically to the Domestic Intelligence mission that also features much tighter controls on documentation and protocols including much tighter management of the FISA Warrants process.
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My starting point of a Second National Reconstruction post Putin-Trump & Rowers is to restore and revise the Constitution. Among other changes to it would be to ditch the electoral college. We'd need new definitions of treason, espionage, subversion, sabotage and so on to include new authority to the FBI.

A new national reconstruction is needed and necessary because an entire major political party has gone over to the number one enemy of the United States -- Russia. So the new Constitution and its newly written provisions of treason, espionage, subversion and so on, to include new statutes to apply the new Constitutional provisions, would need to be applied to the suspect perpetrators and their organizations. We're talking a major and large scale undertaking that must needs be done.

Another reason we need a Second National Reconstruction is that the good guys allowed the original Reconstruction to be undermined, undercut and wrecked by its defeated opponents and other opportunists. The direct consequence the present loyalist Americans must deal with derives from the treason of the civil war period being preserved and carried through time to cause and create the current mess. Destruction of the Untied States and its Constitution is the common theme, heritage, lineage.

The Second National Reconstruction must maximize the vow of Never Again into a reality that is lasting and enduring.
 
TamleeB said:
Once again...Horowitz statement: " I think the activities we found here don’t vindicate anybody who touched this". Ironically, James Comey believes he was vindicated of any wrongdoings. The IG says otherwise. Comey is a sanctimonious ass. I thought it was telling that there were many areas yesterday in which the IG could not comment, because of ongoing investigations. It will be interesting to see the results of John Durham's criminal investigation.
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Cynicism springs eternal.
 
marke said:
We allowed Mueller to hand pick 17 Hillary supporters and former associates to run a 3 year hostile investigation of Trump. The least we can do is allow a legitimate investigator to investigate why justice officials lied to a FISA court in order to obtain warrants to spy on Trump.
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eohrnberger said:
Still waiting for the Democrats and their medias ass kissers and boot lickers to apologize for the Russian collusion hoax.
Would seem that this ought to come first.
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Sorry for trump and his sleazy campaign members meeting with russians repeatedly and lying about it,
Sorry about trump repeatedly lying about business with Russians,
Sorry his campaign manager resigned in corrupt disgrace from supporting the russian puppet in ukraine,
Sorry Donald Jr, welcomed dirt from the russian government,
Sorry Trump and his campaign REPEATEDLY used Russian generated content in their social media campaign
Sorry Trump kept spouting wild arsed conspiracy theories and refused to even admit Russia interfered.


Sorry Trumpians are so intellectually bankrupt that they believe their Dear Furhrer knows best.
 
Jonsa said:
Sorry for trump and his sleazy campaign members meeting with russians repeatedly and lying about it,
Sorry about trump repeatedly lying about business with Russians,
Sorry his campaign manager resigned in corrupt disgrace from supporting the russian puppet in ukraine,
Sorry Donald Jr, welcomed dirt from the russian government,
Sorry Trump and his campaign REPEATEDLY used Russian generated content in their social media campaign
Sorry Trump kept spouting wild arsed conspiracy theories and refused to even admit Russia interfered.
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Most of this list has already been debunked or disproven or it is little more than innuendo. So that would be intellectually bankrupt. :shrug:

Sorry Trumpians are so intellectually bankrupt that they believe their Dear Furhrer knows best.
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Yeah, right. Sure, sure.
 
Tangmo said:
My starting point of a Second National Reconstruction post Putin-Trump & Rowers is to restore and revise the Constitution. Among other changes to it would be to ditch the electoral college. We'd need new definitions of treason, espionage, subversion, sabotage and so on to include new authority to the FBI.

A new national reconstruction is needed and necessary because an entire major political party has gone over to the number one enemy of the United States -- Russia. So the new Constitution and its newly written provisions of treason, espionage, subversion and so on, to include new statutes to apply the new Constitutional provisions, would need to be applied to the suspect perpetrators and their organizations. We're talking a major and large scale undertaking that must needs be done.

Another reason we need a Second National Reconstruction is that the good guys allowed the original Reconstruction to be undermined, undercut and wrecked by its defeated opponents and other opportunists. The direct consequence the present loyalist Americans must deal with derives from the treason of the civil war period being preserved and carried through time to cause and create the current mess. Destruction of the Untied States and its Constitution is the common theme, heritage, lineage.

The Second National Reconstruction must maximize the vow of Never Again into a reality that is lasting and enduring.
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Much of that would require a second Constitutional Convention and I am entirely unconvinced that the general level of gray matter in this country is high enough to handle that. There is every possibility that we would come out of a Constitutional Convention if held today with the equivalent of an Autocracy or even close to a Monarchy whatever halfassed halfbaked government form some group of whack-a-doddles thinks will yield them the transactions that they want as opposed to the government that we should have.

We are a total mess today and we will be for a time even after Bozo the President leaves the WH. The thought of a Constitutional Convention under these conditions scares the pure T heck out of me. Hence I would prefer to take these issues on in a way that avoids a Constitutional Convention.
 
We believe the FBI, not Barr or Trump.
 
TamleeB said:
Facts...are facts.
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So say the Putin-Trump Rowers whose only facts and truth are Trump and his Master of Chaos Putin.

That's a fail.

Fact is Putin never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail or have shot while Trump gets confused by checkers.

Then there's the Polonium Putin who has opponents murdered in democratic lands such as UK.

The Putin-Trump poison has been circulated throughout the United States. The Rowers believe wrongly there isn't any antidote yet there is one as I've discussed in scrolling, ie, a second national reconstruction.
 
CaughtInThe said:
it doesn't matter. the three giant liars (Trump, Limbaugh and Hannity) got the lie out there that Trump was illegally spied on.

THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

they accomplished their goal and the rubes eat it up.

it's pretty genius really. just lie like crazy, be crooks, play the victim and claim God is directing Trump/Republicans.
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Surveillance = spying
 
Excast said:
Every Republican argument is based around the nonsensical notion that a series of career public servants are part of some massive conspiracy against Donald Trump and we shouldn't trust them, but we should believe people like the President and his appointees who provably lie to us all the time.
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Exactly. You don't make 17 mistakes. Changing wording on emails is not a mistake,
 
US&THEM said:
Trump was wrong, wow, that’s crazy.
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The IG report proved he was right. There was a group effort to destroy him. The report said ONLY the first FISA warrant was OK. Did you not know this?
 
jnug said:
Much of that would require a second Constitutional Convention and I am entirely unconvinced that the general level of gray matter in this country is high enough to handle that. There is every possibility that we would come out of a Constitutional Convention if held today with the equivalent of an Autocracy or even close to a Monarchy whatever halfassed halfbaked government form some group of whack-a-doddles thinks will yield them the transactions that they want as opposed to the government that we should have.

We are a total mess today and we will be for a time even after Bozo the President leaves the WH. The thought of a Constitutional Convention under these conditions scares the pure T heck out of me. Hence I would prefer to take these issues on in a way that avoids a Constitutional Convention.
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What you say has been true throughout most of the post WW II era, going back to the John Birchers and their later mass of the worse minded to include the Tea Party and the Republican Party itself with its religious right and libertarian rightists among others. Indeed, Trump has been busy trying to legitimize the Nazis of the USA as we saw with Charlottesville et al.

I am among the many who have always been opposed to a second Constitutional Convention that would be organized and held as you imply and presume it would be.

It's a given that a second CC would be a catastrophe against the United States given the Right Wing lunatics and nutcases that would be elected or selected to it in each congressional district or special CC district throughout the land. They'd make the wingnut state legislatures and the warped US Congress look like assemblages of boy scouts and girl scouts. A second CC by those means would be an old fashioned nuthouse.

Neither should the Putin-Trump Rowers be considered as legitimate eligibles for a second Constitution Convention given their treason and subterfuge against the extant Constitution and all that it represents. The Rowers have long since the present circumstance disqualified themselves for any such eligibility in any way and at any time whatsoever.

So I'd say you and I could be in agreement it needs to be done in a different way.
 
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CaughtInThe said:
like, you know, if police get a lead that some terrorists are planning a bombing and they perform surveillance on them?
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Like when they make up that a political party was colluding with Russia just to spy on them and kept going back with lies and fabricated documents. I call that sedition and I want all of them hung otrin the slammer.
 
Paradoxical said:
Like when they make up that a political party was colluding with Russia just to spy on them and kept going back with lies and fabricated documents. I call that sedition and I want all of them hung otrin the slammer.
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oh, so like when you make up stuff to fit your political agenda so that police, detectives can't do their jobs?

you side with police/detectives when they're doing their jobs?
 
CaughtInThe said:
oh, so like when you make up stuff to fit your political agenda so that police, detectives can't do their jobs?

you side with police/detectives when they're doing their jobs?
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I didn't make that up. It's what the Resistance did.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Sure you did.

you side with police/detectives when they're doing their jobs?
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The FBI, DOJ and CIA are corrupt organizations. It is proven now. Wait until Barr gets done spanking them. Indictments on the horizon of the Resistance
 
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