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Who do we believe in the FBI Spying reports?

Grim17 said:
Let's see what Dictionary.com says:

Surveillance
a watch kept over a person, group, etc., especially over a suspect, prisoner, or the like... continuous observation of a place, person, group, or ongoing activity in order to gather information.

Spy
a person employed by a government to obtain secret information or intelligence about another... a person who keeps close and secret watch on the actions and words of another or others.​

I'm not seeing much of a difference there.
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Right wingers got caught not being Patriotic enough in their Acts; caught in their own, right wing devices and complaining about it.
 
Paradoxical said:
It does. These agencies spied. Can you tell me how they started the investigation? Did anyone check to see how this FFG knew Pappy in the first place?
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They didn't. Did the FBI steal the Trump Campaign's strategy and deliver it to the Clinton campaign? NO. Did the FBI steal their proprietary polling data and delivery it to the Clinton campaign or anybody else? NO. Was the FBI looking for items of political value to the Trump Campaign so they could deliver them to the Clinton Campaign or the DNC. NOPE and nobody has accused them of that.

Illegal surveillance is Illegal surveillance. Legal surveillance is legal surveillance and spying is spying. You can't just pour a jar of molasses over them and slew them together just because you want to. At worst the FBI might and I do mean might have engaged in illegal surveillance and I am not even sure of that. They clearly mucked with the documents that went into the Carter Page FISA Warrants which may well have made their FISA activities illegal. Does that mean the FBI should not have had a surveillance on Carter Page? Not necessarily. It means they should have presented clean docs to the FISA Court in their attempt to gain a FISA warrant.
 
Grim17 said:
Let's see what Dictionary.com says:

Surveillance
a watch kept over a person, group, etc., especially over a suspect, prisoner, or the like... continuous observation of a place, person, group, or ongoing activity in order to gather information.

Spy
a person employed by a government to obtain secret information or intelligence about another... a person who keeps close and secret watch on the actions and words of another or others.​

I'm not seeing much of a difference there.
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Dictionary.com is a pile of crap. Get a better dictionary for one thing. I would point one out but I have several times already. Its time for some of you clowns to do something for yourselves. If I had my way I would Indict dictionary.com for impersonating a dictionary.
 
jnug said:
They didn't. Did the FBI steal the Trump Campaign's strategy and deliver it to the Clinton campaign? NO. Did the FBI steal their proprietary polling data and delivery it to the Clinton campaign or anybody else? NO. Was the FBI looking for items of political value to the Trump Campaign so they could deliver them to the Clinton Campaign or the DNC. NOPE and nobody has accused them of that.

Illegal surveillance is Illegal surveillance. Legal surveillance is legal surveillance and spying is spying. You can't just pour a jar of molasses over them and slew them together just because you want to. At worst the FBI might and I do mean might have engaged in illegal surveillance and I am not even sure of that. They clearly mucked with the documents that went into the Carter Page FISA Warrants which may well have made their FISA activities illegal. Does that mean the FBI should not have had a surveillance on Carter Page? Not necessarily. It means they should have presented clean docs to the FISA Court in their attempt to gain a FISA warrant.
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They spied. Even Barr says they did.
 
Paradoxical said:
They spied. Even Barr says they did.
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Which only proves that Barr is a partisan political hack. I assure you that Bill Barr knows the plain language difference between spying and surveillance even if YOU don't.
 
Mueller, Horowitz, Durham, and Wray, in that order.
 
jnug said:
Does that mean the FBI should not have had a surveillance on Carter Page? Not necessarily. It means they should have presented clean docs to the FISA Court in their attempt to gain a FISA warrant.
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I don't know if they should not have spied on Page, but based on what we now know, the FBI's FISA application would have been denied had they told the truth and not omitted key information that they legally were supposed to include.
 
Grim17 said:
I don't know if they should not have spied on Page, but based on what we now know, the FBI's FISA application would have been denied had they told the truth and not omitted key information that they legally were supposed to include.
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They didn't spy on him. At worst they might have conducted an illegal surveillance. If you don't have an understanding of the English language what are you doing posting in a forum titled DebatePolitics where English is the ONLY accepted post language, trolling the forum?
 
jnug said:
Which only proves that Barr is a partisan political hack. I assure you that Bill Barr knows the plain language difference between spying and surveillance even if YOU don't.
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The FBI and DOJ did the same thing as the left always does... They took a word they didn't like that described what they engaged in, that had what they considered to be a negative connotation (spying) and changed it to something that they thought sounded better (surveillance). You know, like when the left decided to opposed illegal aliens being deported, they knew that didn't sound very good, so they changed them into "undocumented workers".
 
jnug said:
Which only proves that Barr is a partisan political hack. I assure you that Bill Barr knows the plain language difference between spying and surveillance even if YOU don't.
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He knows the totality of what happened in the Trump Spygate drama from how and why they started this (spying) with Papadopoulos and on from there. They used the FiSA warrants to spy on every single one of Trump's people including Flynn, Manafort, etc.

Calling it surveillance may make you happy but it was spying to get dirt o Trump so he would lose, ad when that didn't happen, spying to find something impeachable including the Ukraine deal.
 
jnug said:
They didn't spy on him. At worst they might have conducted an illegal surveillance. If you don't have an understanding of the English language what are you doing posting in a forum titled DebatePolitics where English is the ONLY accepted post language, trolling the forum?
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I'm just pointing out that a)those 2 words mean the same damned thing, and b)if the FBI would have included all the information they knew in the FISA application, they wouldn't have gotten the warrant.
 
Believe whatever Durham finds out.

Durham has a stellar reputation don’t believe the smears by Dems.
 
Trump said:
Believe whatever Durham finds out.

Durham has a stellar reputation don’t believe the smears by Dems.
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There is a 100% chance the left will relentlessly and without any basis, try to smear Durham if even one thing he finds doesn't fit their anti-Trump narrative.

You sir, can take that to the bank.
 
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