Trying to resign myself to the idea of Trump being re-elected

Amelia said:

Trying to resign myself to the idea of Trump being re-elected ... like I tried to resign myself to him being elected the first time.

I ask "how bad can it be?"

Surely America is strong enough to survive four more years under assault even if the person committing the assault is president. Surely he can't be much worse than he already has been. Right?

But I keep coming back to the fact that the disregard he has shown for laws, ethics, decency and traditional American values has happened when he still needed to be on good enough behavior to get reelected, and when he still had people in his administration who had dedicated their life to serving the country.

He has cleaned house of people who were capable of giving him good advice.

A reelected Trump would be completely untethered.

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trixare4kids said:

:applaud
Bravo... They'll never see the damage the Democratic Party has done to this country though, will they?

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An Anti-Trumper in Wisconsin has a lot more cause for optimism than a Trumper in California. Wisconsin's 10 EVs, currently a 2020 'Toss Up' state that went Trump in 2016 has a good chance of going Anti-Trump in 2020!

The eventual 2020 Anti-Trump candidate already has a lock on California's 55 EVs.

2020 Presidential Election Interactive Map

Bullseye said:

Yeah, I feel you. It will be terrible to watch your fellow Americans continue to prosper, their income and retirement accounts continue to grow. More of them get good jobs with promising futures, and, oh, Trump Tweeting. :lol:

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Yeah, but he's orange.

Trippy Trekker said:

An Anti-Trumper in Wisconsin has a lot more cause for optimism than a Trumper in California. Wisconsin's 10 EVs, currently a 2020 'Toss Up' state that went Trump in 2016 has a good chance of going Anti-Trump in 2020!

The eventual 2020 Anti-Trump candidate already has a lock on California's 55 EVs.

2020 Presidential Election Interactive Map

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Why are you telling me something the average seventh grader should already know?
Is this your idea of a :nahnah: neener neener?
Oh and btw, how'd those "locks" work out for Hillary in 2016?

trixare4kids said:

Yeah, but he's orange.

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If I were them, I'd just unfriend Trump on my media accounts, pay attention to my investment account statements, and retire account statements and W-2.

Bullseye said:

If I were them, I'd just unfriend Trump on my media accounts, pay attention to my investment account statements, and retire account statements and W-2.

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Normal people would take your advice, but this group, I fear, is willfully ignorant.

Here's my unbiased opinion: If anyone other than Trump had been President over the last three years, everybody would have been ecstatic over the developments we've seen; particularly in economic and employment fronts. But:

Amelia said:

Trying to resign myself to the idea of Trump being re-elected ... like I tried to resign myself to him being elected the first time.

I ask "how bad can it be?"

Surely America is strong enough to survive four more years under assault even if the person committing the assault is president. Surely he can't be much worse than he already has been. Right?

But I keep coming back to the fact that the disregard he has shown for laws, ethics, decency and traditional American values has happened when he still needed to be on good enough behavior to get reelected, and when he still had people in his administration who had dedicated their life to serving the country.

He has cleaned house of people who were capable of giving him good advice.

A reelected Trump would be completely untethered.

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I remember our European allies saying they were not sure relations and the current international order could hold another Trump term. I have my own concerns. I worry Trump will be a typical demagogue trying to root out enemies. It will be a never ending war against the deep state. That’s all demagogues are good for. They don’t actually improve the world or lives of their followers, instead they insist everything is perfect and can ever be better once the enemies are defeated.

Waging such a partisan loyalist war could hallow out our state department and democratic infrastructure. Reversing the damage would be an up hill battle. There would be rampant corruption, and the constitutional balance of powers would be threatened.

I have accepted Trump could win another election. I have accepted the next few presidents, especially Joe Biden, is not equipped to acknowledge the threat and reverse the damage, and strengthened democracy. I fear America has deep pervasive corruption already eroding the political class’ ability to properly act. If the usual politicians are lining their pockets, then who cares about the rights of the peasants.

I am resigned to exit America if worst comes to worst. I have family and connections outside the US. My family has migrated before. It’s hard and takes dedication. However, if I feel I see this country trending down hill and the state becoming a failed democracy like Poland, Turkey, Romania, etc., I know I must plan to exit while I can, and while I am young. I have a good job, but that could change in ten to twenty years if this economy continues to isolate and withdrawal globally, and if corruption and bribery becomes rampant, this country could resemble the economies of modern Russia and Ukraine. Nobody has a good quality of life there.

Since I worked hard to obtain my right to vote, I will still vote in America while living outside America. :2razz:

My sister feels the same as I, and my parents are researching retirement in Costa Rica.

Bullseye said:

Here's my unbiased opinion: If anyone other than Trump had been President over the last three years, everybody would have been ecstatic over the developments we've seen; particularly in economic and employment fronts. But:

Orange Man Bad​

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So funny to watch Trump supporters here being cheerleaders for Trump. Love watching the Trump Cult Circus.

4 more years and I'll be like

Mach said:

If he was just a bad president, it wouldn't be *that* bad. The issue is he's corrupt, and the Republican party while corrupt, has really embraced corruption under Trump's leadership.
It's that corruption that makes it harder to root out later...makes it easier for corruption to spread more and more. That's the real danger IMO.

Now that facts are no longer valued, reason is replaced by propaganda, and bad actors like Russia who routinely use their money to corrupt found or gates wide open under Trump, it's a dangerous time.
We would not likely see calamity immediately, but if it's not rooted out and repaired, it will be magnified each cycle.

Look at authoritarian/single party rule around the world. China, Russia... you see them un-corrupting their government and ushering in a fair and free government any time soon? They have done everything they can to ensure it can never happen. Kill opponents, surveillance, use justice system to keep opponents out, gain strength by corrupting others and freeing them from prosecution, disinformation, etc.

Democracy is a fragile thing, and it will be destroyed for petty $$$ without hesitation by many in our society if they are allowed to.

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I am very very worried about the corruption, and attacks on the balance of powers.

But I also can’t ignore, Trump’s right wing nationalist style has been the catalyst for massive wars throughout history. We have the the NK leader constantly talking tough, and threatening a Christmas present. Then we have Putin and his imperialist ambitions, mixed with the dangerous domestic mindset that the Americans want a war with Russia.

Yes. I am concerned for America domestically, but can’t stop being concerned about Trump upending world order too.

Helix said:

i'm not willing to become a competing version of Tweety cultists, but FFS, at least have a winning strategy and a candidate at least as good as Obama. to the Democratic leadership, i'd ask "you've had years to do it. why in the **** didn't you?"

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Because they were much too busy blaming their problems on Trump, and :beatdeadhorse for the last three years.
This debate forum is a mirror of how the Democrats "lack of leadership" have been acting, :beatdeadhorse

trixare4kids said:

The polls say Trump is losing, but until the fat lady sings, and the very last vote is counted after Nov. 3, 2020, I won't believe it.
Hell, I could hardly believe he won in 2016 because of what the polls were saying prior to the election.

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I keep hearing that. About the polls I mean. But did anyone actually look at the polls? What I think happened is hardly anyone was keeping track of the numbers the polls were showing, just listening to the political pundits. RCP averages had Clinton winning by three, she won the popular vote by 2. Bloomberg poll also had Clinton by 3 points as did ABC, IBD/TIPP had Clinton by 1, although the Economist/YouGov had Hillary by 4. Then the LA Times had Trump by 3. Most of those polls had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 points.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton

When I look at those polls, I saw an extremely close race. I wondered where these political pundits were getting their 70, 80% chance of Hillary winning. That left me scratching my head. Those pundits had to ignoring the polls, that certainly wasn't what they were showing. I could understand anything between a 50-50 to a 55-45 chance for Hillary based solely on what the polls showed. Most pundits, political forecasters would call that, too close to call if they were going by the polls. At least the polls available to the pubic.

Cardinal said:

FFS where is this pessimism coming from?

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I can't speak for Amelia, but for me it's coming from the realization that there is not a single republican in congress who is willing to stand up to a demonstrably corrupt president who is using foreign governments for personal and political gain, and is selling out our nation's national security in the process.

No senators will vote to remove Trump, which just tells the rest of the country's republicans that it's okay to sell out the country if the price is right.

Years from now, when our allies are no longer allies, and the U.S. is considered irrelevant to the rest of the world, we'll be back in the 1930's, in our little nationalist bubble, watching the next world war break out. And when our children and grandchildren are drafted to fight it on our own shores, they'll wonder why in holy hell we let this happen to them.

bradt99 said:

We survived Obama, we will survive Trump.

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My grandparents survived Stalin and lived to see Putin gain control. The corruption and authoritarian state power the Soviet Union created, has stayed with modern Russia and Ukraine. Putin exploits the same corrupt infrastructure created by the Soviets.

I am not worried about dying. I am worried about pervasive corruption and bribery being normalized by the US political system, and worried about democratic systemwide failure

trixare4kids said:

Because they were much too busy blaming their problems on Trump, and :beatdeadhorse for the last three years.
This debate forum is a mirror of how the Democrats "lack of leadership" have been acting, :beatdeadhorse

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thanks for sharing your opinion.

DiAnna said:

I can't speak for Amelia, but for me it's coming from the realization that there is not a single republican in congress who is willing to stand up to a demonstrably corrupt president who is using foreign governments for personal and political gain, and is selling out our nation's national security in the process.

No senators will vote to remove Trump, which just tells the rest of the country's republicans that it's okay to sell out the country if the price is right.

Years from now, when our allies are no longer allies, and the U.S. is considered irrelevant to the rest of the world, we'll be back in the 1930's, in our little nationalist bubble, watching the next world war break out. And when our children and grandchildren are drafted to fight it on our own shores, they'll wonder why in holy hell we let this happen to them.

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Yeah, we've known for the last three years that they're no good. **** them. The path to removing Trump exists. All it takes is for the people who want him gone to vote. Seriously. That's it. If the voters who want him impeached vote for his opponent then he's gone on January 2021. You don't need a single Republican to help us do it.

jimbo said:

He's about to take 700,000 freeloaders off food stamps.

A lot of people will get caught up in that.

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Actually, it could possibly be more like 3.1 million.

Inside the movement to kick 3.1 million people off food stamps - Vox

Sept. 2019

"The FGA, a right-leaning think tank based in Naples, Florida, paid travel and lodging expenses for many of the conservative leaders in attendance, including Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin and three White House aides. The FGA aimed to send decision-makers back to their respective states, or the nation’s capital, with fresh zeal to restrict access to public assistance programs designed for low-income people, including Medicaid and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, formerly known as the Food Stamp Program.

While the public officials were being pampered in Florida, hundreds of thousands of people on the SNAP rolls in West Virginia were wondering how they would feed their families. A month after the FGA’s Disney gala, dozens of them gathered in a hallway at the First Presbyterian Church in Charleston, the state capital, to wait in line for their allotment at the food pantry hosted there so they could supplement their SNAP budgets — at most $192 per month for a single person.

Some, like Kevin Bass, a 58-year-old veteran with disabilities, were at the food pantry for the first time. Bass said his SNAP payments recently had been lowered to $34 because his wife had gotten a part-time job. Her income didn’t go very far, Bass said; hence his place in the line."
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So be proud all you Trumpers, hold your chin up and head high, you're succeeding in helping Trump lay out a brand new America. One without people in wheelchairs, or dark-skinned people messing up your fancy neighborhoods, or even old people with health issues, because Trump is going to make sure they're all slowly but surely eradicated, "like vermin" as he referred to Baltimore.

HumblePi said:

No, we will not withstand 4 more years of this maniacal traitor. We're already losing the Constitution forever in bits and pieces, slowly. But with another 4 years it will dissolve very quickly. The people that will notice it first are the poor. They're already suffering under the cutbacks with the SNAP program. For a family of three to qualify, their gross monthly income cannot exceed $2,300. What counts as income? SNAP counts cash income from all sources, including earned income (before payroll taxes are deducted) and unearned income, such as cash assistance, Social Security, unemployment insurance, and child support. Does anyone believe that a family of 3 living just barely over the 130% poverty line can survive without assistance if they don't qualify for SNAP?

But wait, there's more. Enter 2021 with Trump in his second term. More bad news is going to come for the poorest, sickest, and oldest Americans in this country with cuts to Medicaid, Medicare, and eventually S.S. too. Don't say it's not going to happen, it's already starting to happen, and those entitlements are top priorities on the slash list for Republicans.

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The proposed changes to SNAP will only affect single, able-bodied people between 18 and 49.

Cardinal said:

Yeah, we've known for the last three years that they're no good. **** them. The path to removing Trump exists. All it takes is for the people who want him gone to vote. Seriously. That's it. If the voters who want him impeached vote for his opponent then he's gone on January 2021. You don't need a single Republican to help us do it.

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But the republican party will still exist in its present, corrupt form, and at least one third of voters will keep them in office. So sure, Trump may lose, but as long as the GOP holds the senate, a democratic president will never be allowed to fill a vacant seat on the supreme court or even on a federal court. Our constitution as we know it will, in a few short years, no longer exist. I saw this coming when McConnell refused to allow Obama's supreme court nominee to even get a senate hearing, and the voters as a whole didn't give a fat rat's ass.

I'm disillusioned because I'm a realist. Voters don't look beyond their own front yards; do they have jobs? Money in the bank? A car in the driveway? Then that's all they want, regardless of conditions in the town next door. More than half the people on this forum look around their own lives, see that nothing has changed, then shrug and decide what happens in government doesn't affect them personally, so who cares? They sure will care when a tank pulls into the driveway, but by then there will likely be a tank pulling into every driveway. That may be years from now or a decade from now, but unless the complete and utter corruption of our government as it currently stands is addressed and corrected, it will happen eventually.

And yes, I know that's hyperbole; even the US doesn't have that many tanks. But I'm pretty sure everyone can figure out what I'm alluding to.

Cardinal said:

Yeah, we've known for the last three years that they're no good. **** them. The path to removing Trump exists. All it takes is for the people who want him gone to vote. Seriously. That's it. If the voters who want him impeached vote for his opponent then he's gone on January 2021. You don't need a single Republican to help us do it.

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Ummm, good luck with that.

DiAnna said:

But the republican party will still exist in its present, corrupt form, and at least one third of voters will keep them in office. So sure, Trump may lose, but as long as the GOP holds the senate, a democratic president will never be allowed to fill a vacant seat on the supreme court or even on a federal court. Our constitution as we know it will, in a few short years, no longer exist. I saw this coming when McConnell refused to allow Obama's supreme court nominee to even get a senate hearing, and the voters as a whole didn't give a fat rat's ass.

I'm disillusioned because I'm a realist. Voters don't look beyond their own front yards; do they have jobs? Money in the bank? A car in the driveway? Then that's all they want, regardless of conditions in the town next door. More than half the people on this forum look around their own lives, see that nothing has changed, then shrug and decide what happens in government doesn't affect them personally, so who cares? They sure will care when a tank pulls into the driveway, but by then there will likely be a tank pulling into every driveway. That may be years from now or a decade from now, but unless the complete and utter corruption of our government as it currently stands is addressed and corrected, it will happen eventually.

And yes, I know that's hyperbole; even the US doesn't have that many tanks. But I'm pretty sure everyone can figure out what I'm alluding to.

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You shouldn't talk about Adam Schiff like that. It's against the rules

Moon said:

The proposed changes to SNAP will only affect single, able-bodied people between 18 and 49.

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I think that's what they object to.

SheWolf said:

My grandparents survived Stalin and lived to see Putin gain control. The corruption and authoritarian state power the Soviet Union created, has stayed with modern Russia and Ukraine. Putin exploits the same corrupt infrastructure created by the Soviets.

I am not worried about dying. I am worried about pervasive corruption and bribery being normalized by the US political system, and worried about democratic systemwide failure

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Listen, so far my life hasn't changed no matter who's president. As a a matter of fact, I don't let any president rule my life like most democrats do. Presidents are not in charge of my life and never will be. I wish some of you would take that fallacy.

HumblePi said:

Actually, it could possibly be more like 3.1 million.

Inside the movement to kick 3.1 million people off food stamps - Vox

Sept. 2019

"The FGA, a right-leaning think tank based in Naples, Florida, paid travel and lodging expenses for many of the conservative leaders in attendance, including Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin and three White House aides. The FGA aimed to send decision-makers back to their respective states, or the nation’s capital, with fresh zeal to restrict access to public assistance programs designed for low-income people, including Medicaid and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, formerly known as the Food Stamp Program.

While the public officials were being pampered in Florida, hundreds of thousands of people on the SNAP rolls in West Virginia were wondering how they would feed their families. A month after the FGA’s Disney gala, dozens of them gathered in a hallway at the First Presbyterian Church in Charleston, the state capital, to wait in line for their allotment at the food pantry hosted there so they could supplement their SNAP budgets — at most $192 per month for a single person.

Some, like Kevin Bass, a 58-year-old veteran with disabilities, were at the food pantry for the first time. Bass said his SNAP payments recently had been lowered to $34 because his wife had gotten a part-time job. Her income didn’t go very far, Bass said; hence his place in the line."
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So be proud all you Trumpers, hold your chin up and head high, you're succeeding in helping Trump lay out a brand new America. One without people in wheelchairs, or dark-skinned people messing up your fancy neighborhoods, or even old people with health issues, because Trump is going to make sure they're all slowly but surely eradicated, "like vermin" as he referred to Baltimore.

Click to expand...

Works for me.

DiAnna said:

But the republican party will still exist in its present, corrupt form, and at least one third of voters will keep them in office. So sure, Trump may lose, but as long as the GOP holds the senate, a democratic president will never be allowed to fill a vacant seat on the supreme court or even on a federal court. Our constitution as we know it will, in a few short years, no longer exist. I saw this coming when McConnell refused to allow Obama's supreme court nominee to even get a senate hearing, and the voters as a whole didn't give a fat rat's ass.

I'm disillusioned because I'm a realist. Voters don't look beyond their own front yards; do they have jobs? Money in the bank? A car in the driveway? Then that's all they want, regardless of conditions in the town next door. More than half the people on this forum look around their own lives, see that nothing has changed, then shrug and decide what happens in government doesn't affect them personally, so who cares? They sure will care when a tank pulls into the driveway, but by then there will likely be a tank pulling into every driveway. That may be years from now or a decade from now, but unless the complete and utter corruption of our government as it currently stands is addressed and corrected, it will happen eventually.

And yes, I know that's hyperbole; even the US doesn't have that many tanks. But I'm pretty sure everyone can figure out what I'm alluding to.

Click to expand...

Baby steps. Step one: get rid of Trump.