The "Muslim Problem": First hand experience?

OTHER:

Yes, I am an American, and have seen the "Moslem Problem" in their own countries first-hand.

The "problem" being both Sunni and Shiite have been at each other's throats for centuries.

100% of the time, when one has an advantage over the other, oppression begins immediately.

This was one of the reasons our "kingdom building" in Iraq failed so miserably.

One side always sees the other side as the main source of all their woes. It will NEVER change.

This is the "Moslem Problem" in a nutshell.

coldjoint said:

And the first 600 years of Islam was nothing but subjugation and imperialism.
And a very.

Click to expand...

You don't know your history very well. How do you think all of North Africa was taken by the Muslims from the Byzantine Christians so easily and quickly? It was because the Copts (even though they were a sort of Christianity) were so oppressed by the Byzantines that they actually helped the Muslims defeat them. And they enjoyed more tolerance under the Muslims than they were under the Christians.

For many centuries in Moorish Spain, Jews, Christians, and Muslims all lived and worked under a level of tolerance that was really without peer anywhere in the world at the time. Jewish scholars (like Moses Maimonides), Christian scholars, and Muslim scholars (like Averroe) all were involved collaboratively in the study and translation of works of Greek and Roman philosophy, Algebra (which had just been invented by the Muslims), and literature. It was the first time that the works of Aristotle were reintroduced to Europe since the fall of Rome (they were Latin translations from the Arabic. The original Greek texts actually came to Europe even a few centuries later- brought there by the Moors).

But when the Catholics took Spain again, what happened to all those Jews and Muslims? Care to tell us? Inquisition, anyone?

ataraxia said:

You don't know your history very well. How do you think all of North Africa was taken by the Muslims from the Byzantine Christians so easily and quickly? It was because the Copts (even though they were a sort of Christianity) were so oppressed by the Byzantines that they actually helped the Muslims defeat them. And they enjoyed more tolerance under the Muslims than they were under the Christians.

For many centuries in Moorish Spain, Jews, Christians, and Muslims all lived and worked under a level of tolerance that was really without peer anywhere in the world at the time. Jewish scholars (like Moses Maimonides), Christian scholars, and Muslim scholars (like Averroe) all were involved collaboratively in the study and translation of works of Greek and Roman philosophy, Algebra (which had just been invented by the Muslims), and literature. It was the first time that the works of Aristotle were reintroduced to Europe since the fall of Rome (they were Latin translations from the Arabic. The original Greek texts actually came to Europe even a few centuries later- brought there by the Moors).

But when the Catholics took Spain again, what happened to all those Jews and Muslims? Care to tell us? Inquisition, anyone?

Click to expand...

That is a myth both religions were subjugated in Spain and there were constant battles to keep them that way.

Those Islamic injunctions, and the assumption of Islamic superiority from which they followed, are the crucial matters to understand when considering the condition of Christians in Islamic Spain. To be sure, Islamic law was not enforced everywhere, every time; as in any other legal system, expediency, necessity, favoritism, bribery, inefficiency, politics, and other factors could alter an outcome. But the plain fact is that Islamic law in medieval Spain imposed humiliating conditions on Christian dhimmis to ensure that absolute power remained in the proper hands. Those restrictions were quite successful in their purpose, at least for several centuries.

Click to expand...

https://world.wng.org/2016/09/life_as_a_dhimmi_in_medieval_islamic_spain

ataraxia said:

Fortunately for us, there are not that many people, either Muslim or Christian, who take their religion too seriously these days.

Click to expand...

You really know nothing about the Muslim world and their communities in the west!

For the past decades there has been a re-islamization movement in the world, fueled by international organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood ("Islam is the solution") and most of Muslim countries now crushingly support the sharia.

Nowadays the vast majority of British Muslims support the prohibition of blasphemy, the vast majority choose halal food whenever possible, almost all of them feast for the Ramadan, and before a few decades the vast majority of Muslim women in the west will be veiled, as opposed to almost none of them a few decades ago.

ataraxia said:

It's interesting that the parts of the country which seem to be most in fear of "The Muslim Problem" are the ones with the least exposure to them.

Click to expand...

Not for the reasons you think: the myth of London exceptionalism

Tl;DR: all other things being equal, people in London vote more against immigration than others. It's just that there are less white people and less blue collars in London.

In my experience, the same thing can be told about Paris: the FN racks low scores there, but people are more fed up about Islam than in the countryside.

Auvergnat said:

You really know nothing about the Muslim world and their communities in the west!

Click to expand...

Projecting again, eh?

From somebody whose personal "experience" appears to limit itself to France, and even then merely to a city within, that kind of accusation is pretty rich.

For the past decades there has been a re-islamization movement in the world, fueled by international organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood ("Islam is the solution") and most of Muslim countries now crushingly support the sharia.

Click to expand...

Anyone taking the trouble to read the whole (quite reputable) survey, will find that the pursuit of your single-minded ideology will not even let your distortions of contents stop, where the source is as reputable as here.

As usual, one might add.

Nowadays the vast majority of British Muslims support the prohibition of blasphemy,

Click to expand...

I know many believers of other faiths holding exactly the same stance. That doesn't mean they represent the danger of soon lording it over everybody else. If you have any examples of such a danger effectively existing "in the West" where Muslims are concerned, cite it.

Remember: not what people want but what efforts they're making to implement it.

the vast majority choose halal food whenever possible,

Click to expand...

So what? And what next? Bashing Jews for choosing kosher?

almost all of them feast for the Ramadan,

Click to expand...

So what? What next? Bashing Jews for observing the Shabbath?

and before a few decades the vast majority of Muslim women in the west will be veiled, as opposed to almost none of them a few decades ago.

Click to expand...

For which, as so often, we have nothing more than your word.:roll:

As appears to be habitual with your propensity for confusing what you feel with what you actually know and can document.

Auvergnat said:

Not for the reasons you think: the myth of London exceptionalism

Tl;DR: all other things being equal, people in London vote more against immigration than others. It's just that there are less white people and less blue collars in London.

In my experience, the same thing can be told about Paris: the FN racks low scores there, but people are more fed up about Islam than in the countryside.

Click to expand...

It's already been shown in another thread how your stance that a larger percentage of foreigners in the surrounding ambience makes for more xenophobic voting patterns, is pure baloney.

The opposite is true in that those least exposed to foreigners are often (not always) more prone to xenophobia. As such ataraxia's observation is totally correct.

And you can cite that exceptionalism article that you appear to have so gleefully found until the cows come home. It offers a thesis, no more, and is far from conclusive.

Whatever it was, The Christians were allowed to live under Moorish rule. When the roles were reversed? Meh, not so much.