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Ukraine opens criminal probe into possible surveillance of ex-US ambassador

Ikari said:
The Cultists already defend it to the death, it seems.
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So it's the party that wants documents and witnesses who are the "cultists"? And the party who are afraid of witnesses from the Trump administration and documents from DOD, DOS, and OMB that are the straight-shooters?

M'kay.
 
Rexedgar said:
Methinks that “something” has been found..............
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The wording of the Ukraine statement seems to back you up, seeming claiming Ukraine has already found an illegal act, and now they are investigating it. I can't lay claim for what they're doing, but I think we need to be cognizant we are looking at this announcement through the lens of Americans familiar with the American legal system. The Ukraine legal system may have significant difference to ours.
 
GDViking said:
The hilarious part is the cultists still think that getting Hunter under oath is trumps salvation!!!:lamo
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Right now McConnel has one thought on his mind:

"How do I make this as quick and with as few few documents and witnesses as possible?"
 
GDViking said:
The hilarious part is the cultists still think that getting Hunter under oath is trumps salvation!!!:lamo
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What do they hope to find? H. Biden has already admitted he got his job because of his last name. When asked about the salary, all he has to say is, "I'm a capitalist." What on earth else could they find from questioning Hunter Biden?

Trumpers?
 
Ikari said:
I am quite convinced that there will be no repercussions for these actions. The Cultists already defend it to the death, it seems. Until some D does the same thing, then they'll start crying and bitching and pretending they care about the welfare of the Republic. But so long as it's an R doing it, they'll defend it to the end. And R's have enough in the Senate to guarantee that there will be no repercussions. You may get a handful of R Senators coming out and stating they want witnesses or this and that, but it won't be enough. That's how I see it, anyway.
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If the witnesses testify and the pressure is mounting that they will....then I think the public might have a say in how their senators vote. But that would also depend on what the witnesses said...and Bolton is a wild card...but he is the key that could change people's minds....imo.
 
Chomsky said:
Especially when the defense resources that will keep his country out of Putin's hands, are predicated upon pleasing Trump.

Now that Ukraine can see a reversal in Trump's fortunes in the matter, they are feeling more confident in coming forward on the national stage.

I've been predicting for awhile that we will not see all the damage and crime Trump and his administration have done, until he leaves office. Then, expect many countries to come forward with their stories, just as the real-life victims of a bully come forward when he's finally stood-up to and made impotent.
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All politicos, worth their salt, keep a wet finger in the prevailing breeze........
 
Moot said:
If the witnesses testify and the pressure is mounting that they will....then I think the public might have a say in how their senators vote. But that would also depend on what the witnesses said...and Bolton is a wild card...but he is the key that could change people's minds....imo.
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Public opinion, and that of the Senate, turned almost overnight during Watergate. There is a good chance it may happen again.
 
Sorry to put a damper on the celebration ensuing on the thread, but Mark Short, Pence's chief of staff said Parnas's many statements contradict direct testimony given by Democrats during the impeachment hearings.

Who you going to believe? :wink2:

From the O/P's source:
Texts released earlier this week by House Democrats that were turned over to them by indicted Rudy Giuliani associate Lev Parnas show Connecticut Republican congressional candidate Robert Hyde berating Yovanovitch and suggest he was monitoring her while she was in Kiev and relaying her movements to Parnas. Hyde declined to comment to CNN when asked if he had surveilled Yovanovitch, who served as a key witness in the House impeachment probe into President Donald Trump.
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trixare4kids said:
Sorry to put a damper on the celebration ensuing on the thread, but Mark Short, Pence's chief of staff said Parmas's many statements contradict direct testimony given by Democrats during the impeachment hearings.
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Testimony given by Democrats? Who would those be?
 
Chomsky said:
Right now McConnel has one thought on his mind:

"How do I make this as quick and with as few few documents and witnesses as possible?"
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After polish's time out enough new information has come to light that I think that ship has sailed.

I think we are at the point Republicans in purple states are counting votes, guilt is no longer a question (if it ever was) it is now about appearance, politics and how they will be historically remembered...

God my 20$ Walmart phone sucks, you k ow who I was talking about...
 
I believe that many Trump supporters will cheer his actions.

The Republican Party is going to go much, much lower.
 
trixare4kids said:
Sorry to put a damper on the celebration ensuing on the thread, but Mark Short, Pence's chief of staff said Parnas's many statements contradict direct testimony given by Democrats during the impeachment hearings.

Who you going to believe?
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Preferably, somebody who doesn't lie to the American people for fun. That excludes the entirety of the Trump administration, unfortunately.
 
Michael Cole said:
What do they hope to find? H. Biden has already admitted he got his job because of his last name. When asked about the salary, all he has to say is, "I'm a capitalist." What on earth else could they find from questioning Hunter Biden?
Trumpers?
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I don't see any Trumpers biting, so I'll take a swing (to mix my metaphors). They don't expect Hunter to reveal anything at all regarding Trump's crimes, which is what the trial is supposed to be about. But of course that's not the point. The point is to say "corrupt" and "Joe Biden" as often as possible. Over and over.
 
Michael Cole said:
Public opinion, and that of the Senate, turned almost overnight during Watergate. There is a good chance it may happen again.
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Bolton testifying might do it, as long as he spoke the truth.
 
Moot said:
If the witnesses testify and the pressure is mounting that they will....then I think the public might have a say in how their senators vote. But that would also depend on what the witnesses said...and Bolton is a wild card...but he is the key that could change people's minds....imo.
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The way Collins came out hard against Parnas this morning, I'm beginning to think she's full of it.
 
Michael Cole said:
Public opinion, and that of the Senate, turned almost overnight during Watergate. There is a good chance it may happen again.
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I don't see that happening here in terms of removal, to be honest. Worst case, absolute worst cas I see, would be McConnel giving a few Senators lee-way to vote their state. But quite honestly, I don't see even that happening.
 
Cardinal said:
Preferably, somebody who doesn't lie to the American people for fun. That excludes the entirety of the Trump administration, unfortunately.
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Looks like that would be Parnas, who is currently under house arrest hoping to cut a deal ....

Mr. Parnas’s account, while potentially significant, is being contradicted on several fronts. None of the people involved dispute that the meeting occurred, but Mr. Parnas stands alone in saying the intention was to present an ultimatum to the Ukrainian leadership.

Another participant in the meeting, Mr. Parnas’s business partner, Igor Fruman, said Mr. Parnas’s claim was false; the men never raised the issues of aid or the vice president’s attendance at the inauguration, lawyers for Mr. Fruman said.

Mr. Giuliani denied Mr. Parnas’s contention that he had delivered the warning at the direction of Mr. Giuliani. “Categorically, I did not tell him to say that,” Mr. Giuliani said.

The dispute represents the clearest indication yet that Mr. Parnas, who was indicted along with Mr. Fruman last month on campaign finance charges, has turned on Mr. Trump and Mr. Giuliani.
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Do what you want with it, but this pretty much proves what Short said above.
Parnas is not a reliable witness no matter how you want to spin this.

Giuliani Associate Says He Gave Demand for Biden Inquiry to Ukrainians - The New York Times
 
trixare4kids said:
Sorry to put a damper on the celebration ensuing on the thread, but Mark Short, Pence's chief of staff said Parnas's many statements contradict direct testimony given by Democrats during the impeachment hearings.

Who you going to believe? :wink2:

From the O/P's source:
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The Lone Ranger thanks you.......

Chomsky said:
The way Collins came out hard against Parnas this morning, I'm beginning to think she's full of it.
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I get accused of ageism, but there ought to be a bi-partisan limit. Collins is not the only one past her ‘sell by’ date, imo.
 
GDViking said:
After polish's time out enough new information has come to light that I think that ship has sailed.

I think we are at the point Republicans in purple states are counting votes, guilt is no longer a question (if it ever was) it is now about appearance, politics and how they will be historically remembered...

God my 20$ Walmart phone sucks, you k ow who I was talking about...
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:mrgreen: Yeah, we're good!
 
jpn said:
Bolton testifying might do it, as long as he spoke the truth.
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Come to think of it, Trump's fate probably hinges on the witness negotiating being done right now. The trial's result is likely being determined as we type.
 
Again, sorry to rain on the anti-Trumper's 'victory parade', but...

Sen. Collins says Parnas documents show House ‘did an incomplete job’

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) responded Wednesday to the news of House Democrats’ newly released materials by arguing that the documents prove that the House didn’t complete its impeachment investigation before sending the articles over to the Senate.

“It’s only now being revealed,” Collins said of the materials, which were released Tuesday night.

The documents appear to show Ukraine’s top prosecutor offering Lev Parnas — an associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani — damaging information related to Biden if the Trump administration recalled the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine.

When told by a reporter that the late release of the documents was because Parnas had just sent them over to the House Intelligence Committee, Collins suggested that House Democrats had not done a complete job during their investigation.

“Doesn’t that suggest that the House did an incomplete job, then?” she asked. “And I do think that, as I said, that it’s important that we have an up-or-down vote on the issue of subpoenaing witnesses and documents. And I’ve worked very hard to get that included, along with my colleagues that I mentioned, into the governing resolution.”

The House subpoenaed the material last October and a federal judge only recently gave permission for the information to be shared with the investigators.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...de52b6-3784-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html
 
Moot said:
If the witnesses testify and the pressure is mounting that they will....then I think the public might have a say in how their senators vote. But that would also depend on what the witnesses said...and Bolton is a wild card...but he is the key that could change people's minds....imo.
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It's possible, but I don't really believe that the Republicans would allow such witnesses to be called. I think their goal right now is to bury and dismiss and will act accordingly to that.

We shall see though, perhaps it will be surprising and the Senate takes its responsibilities seriously and tries to get to the bottom of this.
 
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