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Why is America spending more on healthcare per capita than Denmark?

Masterhawk said:
Hmm, according to this article, it's because doctors have higher wages in the US than in the rest of the developed world and health services (medicine, surgery, and body scans) are more expensive

US Spends More on Health Care Than Other High-Income Nations But Has Lower Life Expectancy, Worse Health - The Commonwealth Fund

So the obvious solution is to lower prices down to european level.
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Nowhere in there do I see it blaming doctor pay. Could you point out to me where it says exactly that?
 
DirtyRat said:
Nowhere in there do I see it blaming doctor pay. Could you point out to me where it says exactly that?
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It says that health services are more expensive in the US than in europe and I thought I saw it say that doctors receive much higher pay than in europe.
 
Masterhawk said:
It says that health services are more expensive in the US than in europe and I thought I saw it say that doctors receive much higher pay than in europe.
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I don't believe it does say that, no.

Doctors are well paid in Europe, too. What Europe doesn't have are several thousand HMO executives personally taking $10 million+ in annual pay, and dividends to shareholders, and still-exorbitant-but-not-quite-ten-million doled out to other executives (Vice Presidents, etc.) paid into health care that go to make people rich who don't actually provide health care and adding a whole level of administrative overhead that is ten times the expense of public health agencies such as Medicare and Medicaid.
 
There are a lot of differences when comparing numbers so you will never be able to compare apples to apples between private and government cost.
First health care cost is simple to figure. Total health care cost by number of people in the country. Everybody theoretically pays their fair share. In this country a lot pf people receive care but do not pay in. This health care is not free and the cost are passed on to the people who are paying in.

The other cost are insurance companies. You have all the salaries of people working at the insurance companies. You have a board of directors and CEO making millions even billions of dollars that are added to the cost of our health care. My doctor says he spends almost as much money trying to collect from insurance companies as what it cost to provide the health care. My doctor said it may take hours to convince the insurance to allow and pay for procedures we need to properly diagnose a problem. While you only spend 30 minutes being examined we spend hours fighting with insurance over what procedures they will pay for versus what you need. Then all the paperwork necessary to get our money. They will always try to not pay the full amount and stick us or you with part of the bill when it is the insurance that is running up the cost.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
In this country a lot pf people receive care but do not pay in. This health care is not free and the cost are passed on to the people who are paying in.
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Umm, compared to what country? Your perception if this is entirely backward. More people pay into healthcare than can actually receive it in the U.S.

As an example, while temping at an aerospace factory with some 500 workers, the company was facing an audit few in the company expected they could past. That's what I was hired for -- to bring the company into compliance. I honestly did not expect to succeed, as I had no experience and just a single college class ... but you know what? I really won the lotto, my efforts paid off and the company was saved. They would have lost 75% of their business if I had failed to bring the company into compliance with the new requirements of their biggest customer, Boeing. The remaining 25% of business they had would not have been enough to maintain the building or staff.

I was laid off about a month later. That work I did that saved the company let the company president have his cushy health care. What did I get? As a temp I got no health care. As a laid off temp, I got even less. My work paid for someone else's health care, but I didn't get any.
 
DirtyRat said:
I don't believe it does say that, no.

Doctors are well paid in Europe, too. What Europe doesn't have are several thousand HMO executives personally taking $10 million+ in annual pay, and dividends to shareholders, and still-exorbitant-but-not-quite-ten-million doled out to other executives (Vice Presidents, etc.) paid into health care that go to make people rich who don't actually provide health care and adding a whole level of administrative overhead that is ten times the expense of public health agencies such as Medicare and Medicaid.
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So let's imagine we cut out the entirety of the net cost of health insurance from our national health spending. Every man and woman, from the CEO down to the call center customer service reps in the health insurance sector, gone overnight. Our national health spending drops from $9,500 per person to $8,900 per person. That doesn't bring you in line with Europe. Not even close.
 
A. Denmark and the U.S. There's two countries with so much in common....

B. When the government gets involve costs always skyrocket. Incompetence and graft don't come cheap.
 
Why does the U.S. spend more on healthcare than does Denmark? Perhaps for the same reason the New York, Chicago, and Washington DC spend more per student for education, with incredibly poor results than does the State of Utah. It has to do with size and Democrats.
 
Masterhawk said:
Hmm, according to this article, it's because doctors have higher wages in the US than in the rest of the developed world and health services (medicine, surgery, and body scans) are more expensive

US Spends More on Health Care Than Other High-Income Nations But Has Lower Life Expectancy, Worse Health - The Commonwealth Fund

So the obvious solution is to lower prices down to european level.
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Well.. there is that. Again that's also because here in the states medical providers are responsible to pay for their own education.. where in other countries physicians education is paid for by the respective country. In addition.. physicians in other countries have lower malpractice costs, lower regulatory costs etc. (all of which I pointed out is often picked up by the government in another column.. not "healthcare".

In addition.. physician salaries are higher here because we are less efficient because the government does not constrict the number of specialists. Which increases the cost. On the other hand.. having more specialists also means that while in America we pay more.. we also don't have to wait for months to have a total hip or other procedure. while in countries that have lower "healthcare costs".. they do.

Lowering prices to European level will simply mean worse care. We are already seeing that as reimbursements drop over the last decade. You are lucky to see a physician now.. more likely a lower cost provider.. like a PA or NP. and the time spent per patient is reduced.. so on and so forth.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well.. there is that. Again that's also because here in the states medical providers are responsible to pay for their own education.. where in other countries physicians education is paid for by the respective country. In addition.. physicians in other countries have lower malpractice costs, lower regulatory costs etc. (all of which I pointed out is often picked up by the government in another column.. not "healthcare".
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Shouldn't that make healthcare cheaper? Also, malpractice doesn't contribute a lot to our budget: Forbes Welcome
In addition.. physician salaries are higher here because we are less efficient because the government does not constrict the number of specialists. Which increases the cost. On the other hand.. having more specialists also means that while in America we pay more.. we also don't have to wait for months to have a total hip or other procedure. while in countries that have lower "healthcare costs".. they do.
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Let's see how America's waiting period compares to the rest of the developed world.

Here's an article comparing waiting times in the US with the rest of the developed world: Wait Times For Medical Care: How The US Actually Measures Up - Better Health

According to the article, a third of canadians have to wait a long time while 23% of americans felt the same way. Canada may have long waiting times but the US ain't that far behind. It kinda begs the question: considering that healthcare in the US isn't free and you have to pay health insurance companies, why does the government spend a single penny on healthcare (other than medicaid or maybe even straight up emergencies)?
 
Masterhawk said:
Shouldn't that make healthcare cheaper? Also, malpractice doesn't contribute a lot to our budget: Forbes Welcome


Let's see how America's waiting period compares to the rest of the developed world.

Here's an article comparing waiting times in the US with the rest of the developed world: Wait Times For Medical Care: How The US Actually Measures Up - Better Health

According to the article, a third of canadians have to wait a long time while 23% of americans felt the same way. Canada may have long waiting times but the US ain't that far behind. It kinda begs the question: considering that healthcare in the US isn't free and you have to pay health insurance companies, why does the government spend a single penny on healthcare (other than medicaid or maybe even straight up emergencies)?
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It does make healthcare cheaper in other countries. that's because their government pays for physician education.. which comes under "education costs" or some such.

In America.. I bore my educational costs... which means that I have to charge patients MORE to be able to pay for that cost.

As far as malpractice? Sure its not the majority of cost.. but as your article points out.. it is a significant cost. Just as is the cost of obesity in this country, the cost of working longer, the cost of education so on and so forth. All the things I have pointed out.

And yes..you should really understand what waiting times are and what americans "think" that they have waited.

I just got back from two weeks in Canada.. and spent time comparing the US and Canadian healthcare systems. In Canada.. one patient waited 7 months to get a total hip. And why? Because there was one specialist in the area and he was place lower in priority.

In America, that same person would wait maybe two weeks to a month. If that. Because there are a number of providers that could provide that service. And there is no preauthorization/insurance BS.. as there was in Canada. Now... could he have waited longer? maybe if he wanted a very in demand surgeon. But if he was willing to shop around for one that could fit him in.. he would have little wait if any.

not so in Canada.

And while the therapy would be covered by insurance in America.. after that total hip... the outpatient therapy in Canada would not be covered by their Government insurance.

As far as this?:

considering that healthcare in the US isn't free and you have to pay health insurance companies, why does the government spend a single penny on healthcare (other than medicaid or maybe even straight up emergencies
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Well.. you forget medicare.. which is the main federal government healthcare expense.. which covers every individual eligible for medicare..

Which is now increasing as the baby boomers age.
 
Masterhawk said:
As we all know, the US does not have universal healthcare; rather it has healthcare companies. Denmark on the other hand does have universal healthcare and here's the best part: it spends less per capita than the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

The US spends the most per capita when it comes to healthcare, surpassing even countries which have universal healthcare.

So here's the question: What is the extra money going to specifically?
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The US healthcare system is irrational and corrupt because the relationship between the physician and patient is compromised by the insurance company which corrupts the relationship and adds significant costs, part of which is the profit for the insurance company.

Insurance is meant to be for catastrophic events, and that's fine, but it has evolved into a system whereby the third and unnecessary party actually determines who the physician shall be and how he shall treat the patient.

Absolutely insane, but defended by those who profit from the status quo.
 
Must also remember the U.S. is nearly 50-x the size of Denmark (Excluding Greenland).
 
Masterhawk said:
I said "per capita" which takes into account the population differences
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Except it doesn't take into account the logistical difference in physical size. There is a cost to the physical size of our country. Its more efficient and cheaper to provide services in Denmark a much smaller country. than a much larger country that may have patient needs a hundred miles from a population center.
 
jaeger19 said:
Except it doesn't take into account the logistical difference in physical size. There is a cost to the physical size of our country. Its more efficient and cheaper to provide services in Denmark a much smaller country. than a much larger country that may have patient needs a hundred miles from a population center.
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Who pays for the transport?
 
Manc Skipper said:
Who pays for the transport?
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not sure what you are getting at.

In some of the areas we serve.. to get to a larger population hub.. is three hours a way by car.

if a patient can be transported. its generally at their cost..
 
If the transport cost falls on the patient, then it can't be distance that's pushing up healthcare costs.
 
Manc Skipper said:
If the transport cost falls on the patient, then it can't be distance that's pushing up healthcare costs.
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it depends. insurance companies do cover medevac it depends on your policy. an ambulance ride for instance can cost you 500+ dollars.
 
Deuce said:
Tax rates aren't relevant here. They're spending less than we are on healthcare.
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Ol they are relevant. They are spending less because their government tells them what they can have and can't have.
Sorry you might need that life saving cancer treatment but well it is too expensive. you will have to do with what we have.
 
ludin said:
Ol they are relevant. They are spending less because their government tells them what they can have and can't have.
Sorry you might need that life saving cancer treatment but well it is too expensive. you will have to do with what we have.
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They do that less often than we do.
 
I didn't notice anyone bringing up lawsuits. Sorry, but if a patient off the street getting charity care, can sue a doctor for malpractice, when what the doctor was attempting to save an individual's life, I can see how our healthcare costs can be astronomical. When a family of a grandma of 85 can sue a hospital if she dies on the operating table then that is why medical costs are so high. When doctors think they are God and can charge whatever they wish, that is why medical costs are so high.
 
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