Welfare, the ACA, higher minimum wage all come with a cost.

[Buck Ewer]

This isn't about caring folks, it's about cost.

No, it's about the cost of caring.

 

[jaeger19]

No crawfishing. You are just failing to grasp the situation.

No I grasp the situation just fine...better than most since its probably going to fall to me and my children to fix the mess we are in.

You've bought into the idea that its "welfare" that's caused our debt... and you are filled with emotional reactions to it... they are taking from you.. its theft.. they are takers, so on and so forth.

Now when confronted with the realities of who these people are.. buy and large, children, elderly and disabled.. many if not most who have paid into the system, and have been productive members of society or will be.. well then it shakes up your moral certainty.

Then when you start looking at the actual numbers of what constitutes REAL welfare.. since its not unusual when folks want to talk about "takers, and government dole" .. they love to include social security and medicare into "welfare".. programs that people paid into to get and are not means tested.

Then you are left with the reality that the debt in this country is not due to true welfare. Its like going nuts about someone stealing office supplies, but not caring that another person is taking millions from your company safe.

Now I understand why folks like you hold the opinions that you do. The reality is that you simply do not have the opportunity to see whats actually going on. You see the women with three kids obviously from at least two different fathers, buying seafood with a benefit card and say "that's why we are in debt".. What you don't see the billions of dollars going for duplicate defense contracts simply because the defense contractors are in prominent and important legislative districts. You don't see billions spent on tanks we don't need. You don't see billions spent overseas in aid.. etc simply to extend our influence in other countries.. often at the behest of American companies that do business in these countries. You don't see the billions that are spent in tax credits, special loans and price support subsidies that go to all types of corporations..

In fact.. you don't even realize where the welfare money goes... you don't realize that it ends up in a rich persons pocket.. a corporations profit margin. And that's who is walking the halls of power and lobbying government.. NOT the woman at walmart with three kids....

And here is the real kicker... so not only don't you see the reality of whats happening.. but you have a motive for NOT believing reality.. which is that you like feeling morally superior. Man there is nothing more likely to get someone to believe your narrative than to present it in a way that makes the person feel morally superior. Heck.. a nation condoned the murder of 6 million Jews for that reason.

 

[Renae]

No I grasp the situation just fine...better than most since its probably going to fall to me and my children to fix the mess we are in.

You've bought into the idea that its "welfare" that's caused our debt... and you are filled with emotional reactions to it... they are taking from you.. its theft.. they are takers, so on and so forth.

15 trillion, war on poverty, yeah I'd say I'm pretty much spot ****ing on. Continue please.

Now when confronted with the realities of who these people are.. buy and large, children, elderly and disabled.. many if not most who have paid into the system, and have been productive members of society or will be.. well then it shakes up your moral certainty.

Not in the least. I'd end foodstamps, HUD, Medicare, Medicaid and SS tomorrow. And not lose a moments sleep.

Then when you start looking at the actual numbers of what constitutes REAL welfare.. since its not unusual when folks want to talk about "takers, and government dole" .. they love to include social security and medicare into "welfare".. programs that people paid into to get and are not means tested.

Paid into what? It's all a ponzi scheme buddy.

Then you are left with the reality that the debt in this country is not due to true welfare. Its like going nuts about someone stealing office supplies, but not caring that another person is taking millions from your company safe.

You have a poooooor grasp of the monetary reality.

Now I understand why folks like you hold the opinions that you do. The reality is that you simply do not have the opportunity to see whats actually going on. You see the women with three kids obviously from at least two different fathers, buying seafood with a benefit card and say "that's why we are in debt"..

That certainly doesn't help, no.

What you don't see the billions of dollars going for duplicate defense contracts simply because the defense contractors are in prominent and important legislative districts. You don't see billions spent on tanks we don't need. You don't see billions spent overseas in aid.. etc simply to extend our influence in other countries.. often at the behest of American companies that do business in these countries. You don't see the billions that are spent in tax credits, special loans and price support subsidies that go to all types of corporations..

OH, you're one of THOSE, I should have known.

In fact.. you don't even realize where the welfare money goes... you don't realize that it ends up in a rich persons pocket.. a corporations profit margin. And that's who is walking the halls of power and lobbying government.. NOT the woman at walmart with three kids....

OWS talking points? I'd say so. You're argument is laughable and I'm done discussing this with you. You're one of those "EVIL RICH" types.

And here is the real kicker... so not only don't you see the reality of whats happening.. but you have a motive for NOT believing reality.. which is that you like feeling morally superior. Man there is nothing more likely to get someone to believe your narrative than to present it in a way that makes the person feel morally superior. Heck.. a nation condoned the murder of 6 million Jews for that reason.

AND you GODWINNED the thread. Man talk about hat trick fail.

You are dismissed, go back to you're little class warfare hatefest liberal arts classes. I'm done man, I know your type and I have far far better things to do then "debate" with you. I think I have some drying paint to watch. FAR more productive use of my time.

 

[Renae]

No, it's about the cost of caring.

It's HOW you care. We are caring "recklessly and irresponsibly" causing serious harm to the fabric of society and our future.

Caring, isn't voting for the guy that's gonna take more and pass it around.

 

[jaeger19]

15 trillion, war on poverty, yeah I'd say I'm pretty much spot ****ing on. Continue please

No you are not...

Not in the least. I'd end foodstamps, HUD, Medicare, Medicaid and SS tomorrow. And not lose a moments sleep

Right up until you couldn't get into the hospital for all the sick and dying folks in it.. right until the riots started from folks not having enough to eat..right until the economy which does rely on those safety nets.. including the medical field which is what.. some 18% if GDP.. and gets a substantial amount of money from medicare and secondary from social security (patients deductibles, co pays etc).. right until the economy goes on the fritz and crashes...

then you might lose a little sleep... but then again.. ignorance is bliss..

Paid into what? It's all a ponzi scheme buddy.

Yeah not even close.. you might want to do some research on Ponzi schemes and how social security and medicare are funded and how benefits are paid before making that comment again.

You have a poooooor grasp of the monetary reality.

Sure.. I guess that experience lobbying for just such things.. and being right along side other industries doing the same thing was just for nothing..:2razz:

OH, you're one of THOSE, I should have known

Yep.. I am one of those people that deal with reality

OWS talking points? I'd say so. You're argument is laughable and I'm done discussing this with you. You're one of those "EVIL RICH" types

Not sure what OWS stands for...

but one of those "evil rich" types? Please.. I have not made one statement to the fact, nor do I base my points on moral judgment.. that's YOU that's doing such.. not me...

You are dismissed, go back to you're little class warfare hatefest liberal arts classes. I'm done man, I know your type and I have far far better things to do then "debate" with you. I think I have some drying paint to watch. FAR more productive use of my time.

AHH and there we have it folks.. when confronted with reality, logic and facts.. the only response you have is to make an irrational statement regarding "class warfare" and liberal arts classes...

Cause I know YOUR type man.. that's why you are not able to debate this topic... because all you have is emotion.. and the certainty of your superiority.. and you don't like having either challenged...

I suggest that instead of watching paint dry.. (and the fumes are not helping you out by the way).. you might want to pick up a book or two and do some real search for knowledge.. then you might be able to reply with something better than.. "go back to you're little class warfare hatefest liberal arts classes"