This Week in Men: It's Only ATTEMPTED Rape and Voyeurism, Girls. No Worries!

[Jane]

It's also likely for trans women to be assaulted when they're forced to use a men's bathroom.

Can you point to any instances of transwomen being sexually assaulted in men's bathrooms because they are perceived to be trans? Please provide specific instances, not quotations from articles about someone being called the wrong pronoun or having their feelings hurt.

 

[calamity]

Can you point to any instances of transwomen being sexually assaulted in men's bathrooms because they are perceived to be trans? Please provide specific instances, not quotations from articles about someone being called the wrong pronoun or having their feelings hurt.

Simply by stating that this is the fear is them admitting that they know men actually are more dangerous than women.

 

[spud_meister]

Can you point to any instances of transwomen being sexually assaulted in men's bathrooms because they are perceived to be trans? Please provide specific instances, not quotations from articles about someone being called the wrong pronoun or having their feelings hurt.

I said assaulted, not sexually assaulted. But here's a study:
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...d-Restrooms-and-Minority-Stress-June-2013.pdf

Eight respondents (9 percent) reported experiencing at least one instance of physical assault in gender -segregated public restrooms. Like the term “verbal harassment” discussed above, “physical assault” was defined very broadly in this survey to capture a range of experiences respondents had where an altercation involving physical contact with others occurred.
These experiences could include, but were not limited to, having been physically removed from the facility (n=4), hit or kicked (n=2), physically intimidated and/or cornered (n=6), and slapped (n=1). One transgender male -to-female respondent reported having been sexually assaulted while using the men’s room.

 

[maquiscat]

Yeah, I wonder why more parents don't invite boys to their daughter's pajama parties. Those parents are just sooo sexist.

Because boys have cooties. Don't you know anything?

 

[maquiscat]

You don't think that the 90/10 ratio will hold in all locations? Perhaps you should show us a place where men are that it doesn't hold true. Hell, even in places where there are no women, they can't keep themselves from sexually assaulting each other...even in church.

This idea that men are not a threat to women once they are allowed into their bathrooms is absurd.

It's been your claim all along that they do and will. You show me I'm wrong. Break down the statistics by location.

 

[Jane]

I said assaulted, not sexually assaulted. But here's a study:
http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...d-Restrooms-and-Minority-Stress-June-2013.pdf

Thank you, but I'm sorry. That was why I asked for information on specific incidents. Geographically-limited sample resulting from self-reported, opt-in, online and mail surveys that unquestioningly accept many respondents without further verification of who the are and what their status is, and which offer the prospect of cash rewards for participation are simply not what you'd call scientifically rigorous, to say the least. Am I saying this small subset of a small subset of people from an extremely limited geographical area are all lying. No, of course not. But "recollection" by survey respondents selected by the methodology used here is notoriously unreliable.

But perhaps more to my point, if this was really happening to such an extent, then we should be reading about ACTUAL incidents frequently, shouldn't we? I know that the liberal media I enjoy provide me with trans-positive stories daily. In addition, we would expect transactivists or institutions like the Williams Institute to have stand-alone webpages devoted to getting the word out about any actual verified incidents of males assaulting other males because they were trans in their bathrooms.

If women can come up with link after link to real stories of real crimes committed against them in public facilities by non-females, then why would we not want to see - at bare minimum - that the tiny percentage of people who claim to be inconvenienced are at some specific risk for violence by having to use the sex-appropriate facilities already available to them?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Survey Method and Analysis

Washington, DC served as the site for this survey, which was targeted to
transgender and gender non-conforming people who work, live, and/or attend school in the
District. Analysis of the survey data was conducted using descriptive statistics, cross
tabulations, and where appropriate, Pearson’s chi-square and Fisher’s exact tests.
As a “hard-to-reach” population, usual sampling techniques for randomization,
such as random-digit dialing, were not feasible for this survey. This survey utilized a
convenience sampling method designed to reach as many members of the target community
as possible. The survey was open for four months beginning November 2008 and advertised
and/or distributed directly through seven community organizations, one online community,
and two local listserves, all of which serve the LGBT community in Washington, DC.
Advertisements for the survey encouraged respondents to forward news of the survey on to
others they think are part of the target respondent group. The survey was offered online, in
print, and via one-on-one interview in order to be as accessible as possible for people
without internet access or low literacy. An incentive to participate was included in the form
of a lottery for one of four $50 cash prizes. Follow-up interviews were conducted with six
survey participants: two young transgender men, one young and two older transgender
women, and one male crossdresser.

 

[spud_meister]

Thank you, but I'm sorry. That was why I asked for information on specific incidents. Geographically-limited sample resulting from self-reported, opt-in, online and mail surveys that unquestioningly accept many respondents without further verification of who the are and what their status is, and which offer the prospect of cash rewards for participation are simply not what you'd call scientifically rigorous, to say the least. Am I saying this small subset of a small subset of people from an extremely limited geographical area are all lying. No, of course not. But "recollection" by survey respondents selected by the methodology used here is notoriously unreliable.

But perhaps more to my point, if this was really happening to such an extent, then we should be reading about ACTUAL incidents frequently, shouldn't we? I know that the liberal media I enjoy provide me with trans-positive stories daily. In addition, we would expect transactivists or institutions like the Williams Institute to have stand-alone webpages devoted to getting the word out about any actual verified incidents of males assaulting other males because they were trans in their bathrooms.

If women can come up with link after link to real stories of real crimes committed against them in public facilities by non-females, then why would we not want to see - at bare minimum - that the tiny percentage of people who claim to be inconvenienced are at some specific risk for violence by having to use the sex-appropriate facilities already available to them?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Survey Method and Analysis

Washington, DC served as the site for this survey, which was targeted to
transgender and gender non-conforming people who work, live, and/or attend school in the
District. Analysis of the survey data was conducted using descriptive statistics, cross
tabulations, and where appropriate, Pearson’s chi-square and Fisher’s exact tests.
As a “hard-to-reach” population, usual sampling techniques for randomization,
such as random-digit dialing, were not feasible for this survey. This survey utilized a
convenience sampling method designed to reach as many members of the target community
as possible. The survey was open for four months beginning November 2008 and advertised
and/or distributed directly through seven community organizations, one online community,
and two local listserves, all of which serve the LGBT community in Washington, DC.
Advertisements for the survey encouraged respondents to forward news of the survey on to
others they think are part of the target respondent group. The survey was offered online, in
print, and via one-on-one interview in order to be as accessible as possible for people
without internet access or low literacy. An incentive to participate was included in the form
of a lottery for one of four $50 cash prizes. Follow-up interviews were conducted with six
survey participants: two young transgender men, one young and two older transgender
women, and one male crossdresser.

So you're intentionally choosing the most difficult to obtain evidence. Trans individuals make up a tiny percent of the population (0.3, around 700,000 adults), transitioned, male-to-female even less. And those who are assaulted less than that. And those who take their stories to the media are even less. And I simply don't have the patience to trawl through all the news articles about assaults on trans people to find one that happened to a male-to-female in a men's bathroom.

 

[Jane]

So you're intentionally choosing the most difficult to obtain evidence. Trans individuals make up a tiny percent of the population (0.3, around 700,000 adults), transitioned, male-to-female even less. And those who are assaulted less than that. And those who take their stories to the media are even less. And I simply don't have the patience to trawl through all the news articles about assaults on trans people to find one that happened to a male-to-female in a men's bathroom.

Utter nonsense! You shouldn't have to troll through anything. I've been putting out the call for this information since I started posting here and all the shouters have changed the subject. Are you honestly claiming in this day of instant access to EVERYTHING of interest to somebody, that these claims you made couldn't be verified practically in real time, or at least on the day they occur? That beggars belief. Thanks anyway.

Edit: Seriously, you quote the Williams Institute as a reliable source of information and yet they don't provide actual case histories? EVERYONE with an agenda (and I mean that in a non-pejorative sense) these days has archives, slick videos and media-backed stories to make their cases personalized for the lay public.

 

[William Rea]

So you're intentionally choosing the most difficult to obtain evidence. Trans individuals make up a tiny percent of the population (0.3, around 700,000 adults), transitioned, male-to-female even less. And those who are assaulted less than that. And those who take their stories to the media are even less. And I simply don't have the patience to trawl through all the news articles about assaults on trans people to find one that happened to a male-to-female in a men's bathroom.

Even if you did that, the confirmation biased reader would move the goal post again.

 

[Jane]

A girl seeing anatomy is no more scaring than a boy seeing anatomy. It's natural. I don't see much of an issue with it. I think there is a bigger issue with taboos placed on it.

I didn't read anything about a stranger, or a person at all, you said something about a penis. Perhaps you should better communicate to save your time having to explain.

You said your sisters grew up seeing penises because they had brothers around the house.
What we see in our homes with relatives is a far cry from being forced against one's will to be exposed to male dicks in public places. Good god. Do not you hear how you sound? Do you not understand the concept of CHOICE for women?

 

[calamity]

It's been your claim all along that they do and will. You show me I'm wrong. Break down the statistics by location.

90 percent of all sexual assaults are committed by men. What, you think they commit them on the moon?

 

[calamity]

Because boys have cooties. Don't you know anything?

More like they have dicks and balls, which they like to use a lot after about age 12.

 

[maquiscat]

90 percent of all sexual assaults are committed by men. What, you think they commit them on the moon?

Another failed dodge, because you can't support your position with other than false equivalents and strawman. So here you go, your homework done for you.

What was the survivor doing when the crime occured?7

48% were sleeping, or performing another activity at home
29% were traveling to and from work or school, or traveling to shop or run errands
12% were working
7% were attending school
5% were doing an unknown or other activity

Now somehow I am doubting that all 5% of those victims were using the restroom at the time. Now I couldn't copy the image that was just above it, but the image does show 10% for "...enclosed but public area, such as a parking lot or garage" which would include restrooms. Again, especially given the example, I am doubting that all, or even a majority, of that is in a restroom. And as an additional not, those victims include both male and female, and the assailants also include both male and female. So that would drop the potential for male sexually assaulting a female in the female restroom down below those percentages.

So in answer to your question, I think they are committing their crimes in more victims homes than anywhere else.

 

[calamity]

Another failed dodge, because you can't support your position with other than false equivalents and strawman. So here you go, your homework done for you.



Now somehow I am doubting that all 5% of those victims were using the restroom at the time. Now I couldn't copy the image that was just above it, but the image does show 10% for "...enclosed but public area, such as a parking lot or garage" which would include restrooms. Again, especially given the example, I am doubting that all, or even a majority, of that is in a restroom. And as an additional not, those victims include both male and female, and the assailants also include both male and female. So that would drop the potential for male sexually assaulting a female in the female restroom down below those percentages.

So in answer to your question, I think they are committing their crimes in more victims homes than anywhere else.

A perfect Strawman is you saying, "Well, since we see that no statistically significant rapes occurred in women's restrooms in the past [when men were discouraged from entering them], they won't occur there now when men are allowed into them."

 

[CLAX1911]

You said your sisters grew up seeing penises because they had brothers around the house.
What we see in our homes with relatives is a far cry from being forced against one's will to be exposed to male dicks in public places. Good god. Do not you hear how you sound? Do you not understand the concept of CHOICE for women?

Yeah i sound like somebody who made a valid point. You sound like somebody who needs to clarify what you mean in the beginning.

Further you have the choice not to patronize establisments that do this, as it should be up to the proprietor, not any government or social justice warrior.

 

[CLAX1911]

Utter nonsense! You shouldn't have to troll through anything. I've been putting out the call for this information since I started posting here and all the shouters have changed the subject. Are you honestly claiming in this day of instant access to EVERYTHING of interest to somebody, that these claims you made couldn't be verified practically in real time, or at least on the day they occur? That beggars belief. Thanks anyway.

Edit: Seriously, you quote the Williams Institute as a reliable source of information and yet they don't provide actual case histories? EVERYONE with an agenda (and I mean that in a non-pejorative sense) these days has archives, slick videos and media-backed stories to make their cases personalized for the lay public.

So because it's rare it doesn't need to be a concern? Isn't that a little hypocritical of you?

Seems like they are a huge target for sexual assault estimates as high as 66% of trans people.

Sexual Assault: The Numbers | Responding to Transgender Victims of Sexual Assault

 

[Doppelgangirl]

This whole thread pretends to be concerned about, 'male threat' but, it is nothing more than a vehicle to attempt to bolster an argument against transgender/transsexuals. In that way, it is far more vile than any comment anyone else could make. It trivialises a real male threat in an attempt to support prejudice and bigotry. This thread is shameful exploitation.

:applaud


That's exactly what I thought when I read the OP.

What does a pervy criminal's behavior have to do with transgendered people?

Oh, right... Absolutely nothing. :roll:

 

[William Rea]

So because it's rare it doesn't need to be a concern? Isn't that a little hypocritical of you?

Seems like they are a huge target for sexual assault estimates as high as 66% of trans people.

Sexual Assault: The Numbers | Responding to Transgender Victims of Sexual Assault

Psst. The point is that they are men so it doesn't count but hey, that's social justice warriorism for you.

If fat ugly lesbian feminists stopped girlsplaining and started getting more mantention we'd have less of this crap.

 

[roguenuke]

90 percent of all sexual assaults are committed by men. What, you think they commit them on the moon?

They are mainly committed in their homes or the homes of the victims. Most of the rest occur in isolated areas, where there is little chance of having someone catch them. There is almost the same risk of being caught in a public restroom assaulting someone as there is being caught assaulting someone in an open public place.

 

[calamity]

They are mainly committed in their homes or the homes of the victims. Most of the rest occur in isolated areas, where there is little chance of having someone catch them. There is almost the same risk of being caught in a public restroom assaulting someone as there is being caught assaulting someone in an open public place.

That's just ridiculous.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...as-released-from-jail/?utm_term=.97d4fccf46f0

Woman raped in bathroom at Manhattan bar | New York Post

Denton Man Sentenced in Restroom Rape of 64-Year-Old Woman - WBOC-TV 16, Delmarvas News Leader, FOX 21 -

Woman Allegedly Raped In Bathroom Of Jay-Z'''s 40/40 Club - MTV

Man who choked girl in women's restroom stokes alarm over transgender access - Washington Times

 

[maquiscat]

That's just ridiculous.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...as-released-from-jail/?utm_term=.97d4fccf46f0

Woman raped in bathroom at Manhattan bar | New York Post

Denton Man Sentenced in Restroom Rape of 64-Year-Old Woman - WBOC-TV 16, Delmarvas News Leader, FOX 21 -

Woman Allegedly Raped In Bathroom Of Jay-Z'''s 40/40 Club - MTV

Man who choked girl in women's restroom stokes alarm over transgender access - Washington Times

First off, what made you pick a WBOC story? That's my local station. My brother actually works there.

Secondly, these are still anecdotal. You have yet to show how this all fits into the overall assaults in what locations. All you are saying here, is theses are 5 of the 30,000 sexual assaults (2014 numbers, latest available I found). You have yet to show that these are a direct result of any changes in laws or that such specific location crimes have increase.

 

[calamity]

First off, what made you pick a WBOC story? That's my local station. My brother actually works there.

Secondly, these are still anecdotal. You have yet to show how this all fits into the overall assaults in what locations. All you are saying here, is theses are 5 of the 30,000 sexual assaults (2014 numbers, latest available I found). You have yet to show that these are a direct result of any changes in laws or that such specific location crimes have increase.

She said rapes in bathrooms don't happen. Those rapes and one choking incident in women's bathrooms were right there to be seen at the top of the google page.

 

[Jane]

So because it's rare it doesn't need to be a concern? Isn't that a little hypocritical of you?

Seems like they are a huge target for sexual assault estimates as high as 66% of trans people.

Sexual Assault: The Numbers | Responding to Transgender Victims of Sexual Assault

You seem to be a master at misstating what I've said as well as not wanting to talk about the thread topic.

First you want to tell us about how your sister didn't mind seeing your dick. lol. Oh. Okay.

Then you make a pretty common spurious conclusion: someone asks for examples of something occurring; someone can't do it; someone says you must not care. What? Do you normally debate with idiots?

But, hey, I think it's a good thing that you're concerned about sexual violence against trans, even if talk about sexual violence against women seems to irritate you.

So good and what does that have in common with the OP? Figured it out yet? That's right: men. In most of these cases you're actually talking about a different motivation for the sexual violence. It's homo hate. Dudes upset that they responded sexually to other dudes. So of course, they've got to hurt or kill the other dude.

 

[Jane]

Yeah i sound like somebody who made a valid point. You sound like somebody who needs to clarify what you mean in the beginning.

Somewhere upthread, I mentioned in passing roguenuke's comment:

And so what if the girls happen to see a penis. Seeing a penis will not scar them.

^^That was just one of her justifications for why she was advocating for penis people to have access to school girls' showers and locker rooms.

Then you show up apparently in support of that position with this beauty:

Not sure, my sister grew up worth two boys and she saw us naked. Didn't scar her for life.

I go, WUT? You burst into tears and now claim you just didn't undertand me. Okay.

Further you have the choice not to patronize establisments that do this, as it should be up to the proprietor, not any government or social justice warrior.

So none of the girls currently in public school have to attend school any more by your reckoning? Or maybe they just need to wear their gym clothes under their school clothes if they don't want to change or shower around some boy? Okay.

Dude, I hope you're going to stick around. You've been a laugh riot so far.

 

[maquiscat]

She said rapes in bathrooms don't happen. Those rapes and one choking incident in women's bathrooms were right there to be seen at the top of the google page.

No she didn't. That is your lie. Well yours and Jane's and Herin's (sp?). She said the same thing we've been saying since the start. The odds of a sexual assault in a restroom is extremely low, and there is nothing about these laws that would change the risks. Extremely low does not equal never. Restroom assaults have been happening for as long as we have had restrooms and will continue to occur, sadly. But you have shown nothing but your faulty logic to indicate any increase in the rate of these assaults. And I will remind you once again, an increase in reporting by the media does not automatically equate to an increase in actual rate.