Teen who was relentlessly bullied kills herself in front of her family

[CaptainCourtesy]

Your "advice" is meaningless, as it is an online forum, people can and will say a lot of things, even if you consider them stupid. Imo it seemed more like some cheap chest-beating attempt.

My advice may be meaningless to YOU and may seem a certain way to YOU. Of course, your perception is meaningless to ME. Now that we have that out of the way, let's move on.

Cool. Now lets get back to your previous statement i.e. "Anyone who says something like "killing yourself is a sign of weakness" or the like, be prepared to be laughed at and humiliated for being completely ignorant on the topic." and more specifically to the weakness part. Isn't having issues with social interactions or a low self esteem due to various factors is a form of "social weakness" of some sort, especially in the current era of social-media and supposed openness?



Fallen.

Nope. Not at all. It's more of a sign of either a mental health issue, a difficulty with self-perception, or challenges in social situations. It's not a weakness but a difference. Also, this really takes what I said out of context. The issue was identifying someone who commits suicide as weak. That's ignorant. The act of suicide is a way for someone to eliminate emotional pain that one finds unbearable and untenable.

 

[DA60]

Though I see this as tragic, both in the sense that the girl choose to kill herself and because the scumbag bullies who verbally assaulted her did it without recourse, I find that her choosing to do this in front of her family to be very attention seeking and selfish. It's one thing for a family to hear about a loved one killing themselves or to find a loved one after having done so, but to do it IN FRONT of her family will leave scars that will never heal. I understand her sadness and anger, but what she did was cruel.

We don't know what the relationship with her family was. Perhaps they abused her as well - emotionally, physically and/or sexually.Maybe she begged them to let her change schools and refused or simply did not take her threads/misery seriously.

I don't think we should assume it was a selfish act without ALL sides being known...especially considering the poor girl is dead and cannot defend herself.

I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are in...if they ever will be.


My brother burned himself to death (suicide). And though I definitely would not have wanted to see it...I would not have held it against him in the slightest had he done in front of me. Mental illness can do VERY strange things to people.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Maybe not murder charges. What about assault?
Or something that sticks with a permanent record that would have to be disclosed on job applications, or something?

A cyber scarlet letter.

If we are looking at it from a "should" standpoint, if direct cause can be determined, I would support some sort of cyber charge, probably a felony.

 

[Mac77]

This demonstrates that you have no clue.

It is not hard to understand the emotions of someone you've never met if you've TREATED hundreds of people like them.

As far as telling others what to think, I didn't do that, so you are still batting .000 in being correct. I'll let you know when you get your first hit.

How do you know all about this girl that you've never met?

Oh I forgot.

You wrote a thesis.

There is a little bit of the Internet bully in you I think.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

We don't know what the relationship with her family was. Perhaps they abused her as well - emotionally, physically and/or sexually.

I can accept that possibility as having mitigating circumstances in the situation.

I don't think we should assume it was a selfish act without ALL sides being known...especially considering the poor girl is dead and cannot defend herself.

I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are in...if they ever will be.

In some respect, suicide is always a selfish act, though not in the completely negative way that the word "selfish" is often presented. Figure it this way. The act takes into consideration the impact on others or the feelings of others not at all. I understand that part of the issue is that individual feels that there is no other option, but the outcome is what it is. Again, as with cruelty, it doesn't imply intent at all.

 

[Fallenangel]

Do you consider mental illness an actual "illness"?

Or, to put it another way, is cancer a "weakness"?

Would you say a person who dies from breast cancer, or liver cancer was "weak"?

Mental illness is an actual illness, if you would read carefully you would notice that I had said nothing of the sort of what you're trying to imply.
I've simply asked our resident expert whether for instance lacking social skills in a society heavily based on social interactions is a "social weakness" of some sort.

Fallen.

 

[Dragonfly]

If we are looking at it from a "should" standpoint, if direct cause can be determined, I would support some sort of cyber charge, probably a felony.

Don't get me wrong, I can see all kinds of issues there. Like an onion. Many layers to be peeled back.

Does some kid calling her a jerk because a teacher gave her a compliment get dinged with charges?
How far back in time does one go looking at those who bullied her?

Is simply being called "fat", or "ugly" a criminal act?

I get that this is very sketchy, and a huge gray area here.

 

[DA60]

Bullied teen kills herself in front of her family - CNN.com





Cyber bullying. A modern day issue. Awful. Disgusting. Tragic.

Can we, or should we hold people accountable when something of this nature happens?
Can assault charges be levied if it's just words on the internet?

Flip side of that is people don't have to be "on" the internet. You can turn off Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

I'm torn between anger at the kids who mercilessly tortured this girl, and just outright sadness that she felt her only way out was suicide.
Her family must be absolutely devastated having watched her pull the trigger.

Few things make me more angry than bullying. I was fortunate that I did not receive such treatment. But what a horrible thing it must be.

I could care less what people think - if you bully someone you should be charged with such a crime and fined or jailed if the instances are severe enough. And if laws do not exist at present like this - they should be created...immediately.


BTW, if you disagree with me than I will assume that you yourself bullied people (whether you deny it or not). No one decent and in their right mind should be fine allowing this kind of behavior to continue.

 

[TheGoverness]

Why do you think kids today feel some "need" to cyber-bully?

Entertainment? Power? What is it? Any clue?

From my experience, it was usually due to stuff like petty school drama.

But that's anecdotal, so that probably isn't the case across the board.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

How do you know all about this girl that you've never met this girl?

Oh I forgot.

You wrote a thesis.

There is a little bit of the Internet bully in you I think.

Do you actually have anything pertinent to the topic, or do you want to keep looking foolish by doing what you are doing?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Don't get me wrong, I can see all kinds of issues there. Like an onion. Many layers to be peeled back.

Does some kid calling her a jerk because a teacher gave her a compliment get dinged with charges?
How far back in time does one go looking at those who bullied her?

Is simply being called "fat", or "ugly" a criminal act?

I get that this is very sketchy, and a huge gray area here.

VERY gray area. Truthfully, this would be a legal and logistical nightmare. I really don't know what the answer is.

 

[Dragonfly]

Mental illness is an actual illness, if you would read carefully you would notice that I had said nothing of the sort of what you're trying to imply.
I've simply asked our resident expert whether for instance lacking social skills in a society heavily based on social interactions is a "social weakness" of some sort.

Fallen.

Wasn't implying anything. Just asking you to clarify where you stand. That's all.

 

[nota bene]

Though I see this as tragic, both in the sense that the girl choose to kill herself and because the scumbag bullies who verbally assaulted her did it without recourse, I find that her choosing to do this in front of her family to be very attention seeking and selfish. It's one thing for a family to hear about a loved one killing themselves or to find a loved one after having done so, but to do it IN FRONT of her family will leave scars that will never heal. I understand her sadness and anger, but what she did was cruel.

I agree and would add that it was also very selfish. I mean, if you want to punish your family for the rest of their lives, this is a way. But it's also so true that despair erodes rational thinking (and that this is worsened if the person is self-medicating).

Through the Compassionate Friends I met an older woman whose 17-year old son had killed himself. He had fallen into drugs, gone to rehab and gotten clean, and returned to school only to be mercilessly mocked. He shot himself in his mother's bedroom because she was closest to him and that's where he felt safe and also because he wanted her to be the one to find him because she loved him so much. That's some pretty twisted thinking.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

From my experience, it was usually due to stuff like petty school drama.

But that's anecdotal, so that probably isn't the case across the board.

Actually, in my experience, it is mostly petty school drama or petty "she talked to the guy I like" drama or something like that.

 

[Mac77]

Do you actually have anything pertinent to the topic,

or do you want to keep looking foolish by doing what you are doing?

No, I'll leave looking foolish to experts like you.

 

[American]

I agree. It certainly eroded her thinking and caused her to do something unthinkable... kill herself in front of her family. The level of anger she must have had and was not expressing appropriately must have been massive for her to do what she did. It's still a cruel act, though, one that if she were thinking clearly, she probably wouldn't have done.

I wonder if she was blaming her family for not helping her, or for allowing this to happen to her; even though irrational.

 

[Kobie]

I wonder if she was blaming her family for not helping her, or for allowing this to happen to her; even though irrational.

As we all know, teenagers tend to act rationally.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Mental illness is an actual illness, if you would read carefully you would notice that I had said nothing of the sort of what you're trying to imply.
I've simply asked our resident expert whether for instance lacking social skills in a society heavily based on social interactions is a "social weakness" of some sort.

Fallen.

Perhaps implications such as those might not be assumed if you didn't come across in the way that you did. Now, you took my post out of context. Do you want to try a different approach to people in this thread so that you might not get the kinds of responses you are?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I wonder if she was blaming her family for not helping her, or for allowing this to happen to her; even though irrational.

That's actually another very good possibility. Did you know that in many cases where one parent abused a child, the child is often angrier at the parent that DIDN'T abuse them for not helping them or doing something about it?

 

[Dragonfly]

I agree and would add that it was also very selfish. I mean, if you want to punish your family for the rest of their lives, this is a way. But it's also so true that despair erodes rational thinking (and that this is worsened if the person is self-medicating).

Through the Compassionate Friends I met an older woman whose 17-year old son had killed himself. He had fallen into drugs, gone to rehab and gotten clean, and returned to school only to be mercilessly mocked. He shot himself in his mother's bedroom because she was closest to him and that's where he felt safe and also because he wanted her to be the one to find him because she loved him so much. That's some pretty twisted thinking.

"selfish" is a rational concept that's difficult if not impossible to apply to a suicide - killing yourself due to absolute and agonizing depression isn't rational.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

No, I'll leave looking foolish to experts like you.

Moderator's Warning:

People who act like this will be thread banned.

 

[DA60]

I agree and would add that it was also very selfish. I mean, if you want to punish your family for the rest of their lives, this is a way. But it's also so true that despair erodes rational thinking (and that this is worsened if the person is self-medicating).

Through the Compassionate Friends I met an older woman whose 17-year old son had killed himself. He had fallen into drugs, gone to rehab and gotten clean, and returned to school only to be mercilessly mocked. He shot himself in his mother's bedroom because she was closest to him and that's where he felt safe and also because he wanted her to be the one to find him because she loved him so much. That's some pretty twisted thinking.

I don't think that is twisted...it seems very logical. Not rational...but suicide often is not a rational act.

As I stated, my brother burned himself to death (suicide). And it would not have offended me in the slightest had he done it in front of me (though that is a sight I would MUCH rather not have in my memory). In fact, I would have assumed he wanted to have a family member with him when he died...which, again, seems logical given the circumstances.

When my mother died of cancer, she was apparently (according to the nurse) up all night, breathing shallow (she could not communicate by then). As soon as I kissed her on the cheek, told her I loved her and that I would be back soon (I was going to the store to get her some things), her breathing immediately changed and within 30 seconds she was gone. Clearly, she had been holding on all night and wanted one of her children with her when she went.
It was one of the most wonderful moments I shared with my mother - in a tragic way.
The point is people often want to die with someone they love - no matter now they are going.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I don't think that is twisted...it seems very logical. Not rational...but suicide often is not a rational act.

As I stated, my brother burned himself to death (suicide). And it would not have offended me in the slightest had he done it in front of me (though that is a sight I would MUCH rather not have in my memory). In fact, I would have assumed he wanted to have a family member with him when he died...which, again, seems logical given the circumstances.

When my mother died of cancer, she was apparently (according to the nurse) up all night, breathing shallow (she could not communicate by then). As soon as I kissed her on the cheek, told her I loved her and that would be back soon (I was going to the store to get her some things), her breathing immediately changed and within 30 seconds she was gone. Clearly, she had been holding on all night and wanted one of her children with her when she went.
It was one of the most wonderful moments I shared with my mother - in a tragic way.
The point is people often want to die with someone they love - no matter now they are going.

In a sad way, that's a beautiful story about your mother. I had nearly the same experience with mine.

 

[American]

As we all know, teenagers tend to act rationally.

Yes, there is that.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

"selfish" is a rational concept that's difficult if not impossible to apply to a suicide - killing yourself due to absolute and agonizing depression isn't rational.

It's odd, though. It's both irrational and selfish at the same time; it's selfish partially BECAUSE it's irrational. One who is rational wouldn't do an act that would hurt so many people that they care about whom they wouldn't want to hurt. One of the biggest problems with understanding suicide is that is is a combination of very contradictory issues. One of our most basic instincts is the instinct of survival. To commit suicide, in a way, one must bypass that... though by doing so, they are ending what seems to be an untenable existence. See the mass of contradictions?