Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?[W:937]

[Eric7216]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Replace the word "gay" with the words "African American," and say the new sentence out loud to yourself.

Sounds the same to me. Does it sound different to you? Why?

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Inspired by this:

Anti-Gay Stickers At High School In Indio Touch Off Debate: Hate Speech Or Free Speech? « CBS Los Angeles

The follow up to the story is that the school reversed it's decision and they are not allowed. My first impulse is to say no. What possible purpose would that serve? Why would you even want to ID yourself that way? On the flip side, pro gay symbols are allowed and would anyone object to, say, anti Christian symbols? How about anti Jewish symbols? Taking all that into consideration, I still think no, but I'd think that would need to be consistent. What do you think?

attaching poll

Why do people always have to "make a statement?"

Why not go to school to learn.
No one, pro or anti should be doing this.

 

[akrunner88]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Why do people always have to "make a statement?"

Why not go to school to learn.
No one, pro or anti should be doing this.

Agreed. I'd be ok if they just banned all of it to save everyone the trouble of it being an issue in the first place. I think university is a better place for that than high school if you're looking to make a statement, as university is more geared towards that where as public school is "public" and meant for everyone to get their basic education out of the way to prepare for the real world.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Agreed. I'd be ok if they just banned all of it to save everyone the trouble of it being an issue in the first place. I think university is a better place for that than high school if you're looking to make a statement, as university is more geared towards that where as public school is "public" and meant for everyone to get their basic education out of the way to prepare for the real world.

Certainly.
It gets annoying, too much activism is a bad thing, imo.

 

[Redress]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

I don't know but I know that public schools have been seen as state actors and the first amendment does have at least some viability in a public school

now in a private school-not so much since its not state action. You here about girls getting written up for "dress code violations" that most people think is idiotic and other such restrictions are often upheld. one place where Public schools and free speech clash are the "anti violence" codes-a few years ago, I recall a case of a student suspended for having a picture of his green beret brother in his locker and of course the soldier was armed and that was used as a violation of the "anti violence" code

As I recall the student won that one

Public schools are very definitely state actors, and the first amendment does apply. However, the purpose of a school is to educate, and that limits the first amendment rights somewhat.

And yeah, private schools can do anything they want pretty much(within reason folks, don't try and read into that what isn't there).

 

[Redress]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Why do people always have to "make a statement?"

Why not go to school to learn.
No one, pro or anti should be doing this.

Can and should are two different things. Students should go to school for an education. However, the reality is that a lot more is going on there, both formally and informally.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Can and should are two different things. Students should go to school for an education. However, the reality is that a lot more is going on there, both formally and informally.

I know that very well.
If I were to run a school, I think I'd not allow it.
Kids aren't informed enough, in a lot of circumstances, to make stances on political/social issues like this.

 

[Helix]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

I absolutely agree with that. If it was my school, I would allow positive messages, ie., Rainbow Coalition, Jesus Saves, Vote For [fill in the blanke] etc., but not negative messages that were designed with only one message in mind: To be hateful to a group of individuals based upon race, religion or sexual orientation. Therefore, I don't approve of the school's decision to allow both types of messages, but cannot take issue with their chosen neutrality in the matter either. I just wish it wasn't deemed politically incorrect to prevent little Johnny from sporting a "I hate Fags" sticker just because little Joey is allowed to wear a rainbow pin.

But that's just me, and had nothing to do with what I believed the OP was asking.

when i was a high school kid, religious shirts were just fine, and "i hate fags" would have gotten you kicked out of school with a phone call to your parents. mostly, the message just had to be positive, and not something used to bully other kids. as for pro-gay messages, no one had the guts back then, but the world has moved on, thankfully.

 

[radcen]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Schools get to control what they feel is disruptive or allowed, that's the reality. My personal opinion is no of course not just like I wouldn't allow anti-religious stickers, anti-race stickers or anti-gender stickers etc. They are disruptive and bigoted and part of school environment.

Really, all stickers are disruptive to a learning environment, as they promote a social and/or political point-of-view, so maybe until we as a society can grasp how to adult we shouldn't allow stickers of any kind... pro-, anti-, or in between.

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Shame on you for even insinuating that gays are as bad as pedophiles. They are no worse than straights. None.

But the saving grace here is that your type of beliefs are literally dying out.

Pedophiles just like gays claim that they were born that way and that it is not a choice.Many people consider homosexuality and pedophilia to be abnormal deviant behaviors.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Replace the word "gay" with the words "African American," and say the new sentence out loud to yourself.

No words were used. The sticker is a rainbow with an "X" across it.

Schools get to control what they feel is disruptive or allowed, that's the reality. My personal opinion is no of course not just like I wouldn't allow anti-religious stickers, anti-race stickers or anti-gender stickers etc. They are disruptive and bigoted and part of school environment.

The same can be argued for any "pro" symbolism. In either case, it is people who act out in offense that cause the disruption. It would be one thing if someone was "in-your-face" inciting you. It is another thing entirely to simply display some image showing something you disagree with.

Any sticker that disparages a particular group shouldn't be allowed in school, just as we don't allow any other types of bullying. I'm all for pro-gay, pro-Christian, pro-Jewish, pro-whatever.

By allowing anti-gay stickers, you are basically allowing kids to disparage gay students in a way that is deemed as bullying. I think it would depend on the context of the stickers too. I have less of an issue with "pro-traditional marriage" stickers than I do "anti-gay" stickers.

As I already pointed out, free speech and freedom of expression must be equally applied to all. As long as the person isn't aggressively inciting anyone, then they should have the right to display anti-whatever. You have a right to be offended, in which case you can avoid the person who offends you or engage them in polite debate. But they have the same right to express themselves non-violently as anyone else.

Now before anyone gets on a high horse; any perusal of my posts in this Forum will show that I support gay rights, women's rights, racial and sexual equality, etc., all on the basis of natural human rights. Hell, I was supporting these rights way back when it was a problem socially to do so.

However, I am also a staunch supporter of free expression. I do not believe there is any such right to freedom from being offended. That is a personal choice on how to respond. What was the old childhood rhyme? Sticks and stones may break my bones but WORDS will never harm me? Words and symbols (like this rainbow exed-out sticker) only the have the power you grant them to offend.

I may not agree with that they believe, but I support their right to express it.

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

There are pro child rape stickers?

You can order them,although they are for pranking people.

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and you think that equates to sexual orientation and race?

Choosing who you have sex with is not equatable to race.

 

[akrunner88]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

No words were used. The sticker is a rainbow with an "X" across it.



The same can be argued for any "pro" symbolism. In either case, it is people who act out in offense that cause the disruption. It would be one thing if someone was "in-your-face" inciting you. It is another thing entirely to simply display some image showing something you disagree with.



As I already pointed out, free speech and freedom of expression must be equally applied to all. As long as the person isn't aggressively inciting anyone, then they should have the right to display anti-whatever. You have a right to be offended, in which case you can avoid the person who offends you or engage them in polite debate. But they have the same right to express themselves non-violently as anyone else.

Now before anyone gets on a high horse, any perusal of my posts in this Forum will show that I support gay rights, women's rights, racial and sexual equality, etc., all on the basis of natural human rights. Hell, I was supporting these rights way back when it was a problem socially to do so.

However, I am also a staunch supporter of free expression, and this does not mean restrictions based on some inane idea that there is a right to freedom from being offended. What was the old childhood rhyme? Sticks and stones may break my bones but WORDS will never harm me? Words and symbols (like this rainbow exed-out sticker) only the have the power you grant them to offend.

I may not agree with that they believe, but I support their right to express it.

Free speech and freedom of expression though, as applicable to schools, places of employment, public places in general are not equal and not applied to all. While the government cannot arrest the Westboro Baptist Church for hate speech at military funerals against gays, schools DO NOT have to tolerate that. My boss does NOT have to tolerate me making gay hate speech on my Facebook and can fire me for it. If I go into Walmart and walk up to black people and call them the n-word, Walmart management DOES NOT have to tolerate that and can ban me from their store.

 

[Redress]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Pedophiles just like gays claim that they were born that way and that it is not a choice.Many people consider homosexuality and pedophilia to be abnormal deviant behaviors.

Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder. Homosexuality is not. This is a large, unsubtle difference.

 

[ajn678]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Why should stickers that are putting down any group of students be accepted? Kids are sent to school to learn things, not to be harassed based on a group they identify as. I have no problem with "pro" gay stickers. The problem is when the stickers or whatever have an anti-group message. We should be building these young,impressionable minds up, not tearing them down so bigots can protest in their school as well as everywhere else. I have no problem if someone wants to use these stickers in their own time, even though I don't agree with the message. The issues arises when they are brought into an institution that is supposed to be accepting of everyone and attempting to educate people not create more violence and hatred. These stickers will do nothing but promote anti-gay feelings and showing kids its okay to beat up that kid, because even the adults think people should be anti-gay. Free speech has no place in this discussion, in the same way that I can't go into my work place with the same messages and expect to keep my position.

 

[radcen]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Free speech and freedom of expression though, as applicable to schools, places of employment, public places in general are not equal and not applied to all. While the government cannot arrest the Westboro Baptist Church for hate speech at military funerals against gays, schools DO NOT have to tolerate that. My boss does NOT have to tolerate me making gay hate speech on my Facebook and can fire me for it. If I go into Walmart and walk up to black people and call them the n-word, Walmart management DOES NOT have to tolerate that and can ban me from their store.

...but the school should be consistent, or else they're effectively promoting one given side.

Presuming a public school and not a private school.

 

[akrunner88]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

...but the school should be consistent, or else they're effectively promoting one given side.

Presuming a public school and not a private school.

Well I actually agree with that and my high school did away with all of this anyway. Political speech at least. If you wore a Bush or Kerry t-shirt they made you change it. Same rules applied to political issues.

 

[Phys251]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Pedophiles just like gays claim that they were born that way and that it is not a choice.Many people consider homosexuality and pedophilia to be abnormal deviant behaviors.

How does it make you feel to know that your beliefs are literally dying out?

 

[jamesrage]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder. Homosexuality is not. This is a large, unsubtle difference.

Yes people in the shrink institute caved and removed it as a psychiatric disorder. Still does not change the fact that pedophiles just like gays believe that they were born that way.

 

[Phys251]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

No words were used. The sticker is a rainbow with an "X" across it.

That is completely irrelevant to my prior comment to jamesrage. And furthermore, speech does not have to contain words to be censored. No school student should ever expect to be allowed to stay in class while displaying a shirt with porn on it, for example.

 

[Phys251]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Yes people in the shrink institute caved and removed it as a psychiatric disorder. Still does not change the fact that pedophiles just like gays believe that they were born that way.

Your bigoted views are literally dying out.

 

[LaylaWindu]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Although the thought of such a sticker is abhorrent to me, I STRONGLY believe in free speech.

And any sticker that does not encourage violence against people should be allowed...no matter what it says.

If the stickers are just anti gay, that is awful but should be acceptable, IMO.

But if the stickers say something like 'Beat up gays'...that is inciting violence and should not be allowed, IMO.

People should be allowed to express their peaceful dislike for almost anything.

I have to disagree simply because the message is "no gays". That doesn't seem peaceful to me simply because how does one accomplish that message. Just like No blacks or no jews doesn't seem peaceful to me. I too am for free speech but again this is in school and the dynamic is certainly different.

 

[ajn678]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Yes people in the shrink institute caved and removed it as a psychiatric disorder. Still does not change the fact that pedophiles just like gays believe that they were born that way.

Pedophiles are attracted to children who cannot give consent. Gay people can have acceptable relations with adults that can give consent. Of course you don't care about the law. you just want to continue to hate someone because they aren't like you.

 

[Redress]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Yes people in the shrink institute caved and removed it as a psychiatric disorder. Still does not change the fact that pedophiles just like gays believe that they were born that way.

So every straight person who believes they are born straight is just like a pedophile in your mind?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Should Anti Gay Stickers be Allowed in School?

Why should stickers that are putting down any group of students be accepted? Kids are sent to school to learn things, not to be harassed based on a group they identify as. I have no problem with "pro" gay stickers. The problem is when the stickers or whatever have an anti-group message. We should be building these young,impressionable minds up, not tearing them down so bigots can protest in their school as well as everywhere else.

Now this appears to seem eminently reasonable, until you sit on the other side of the table and feel that the "pro" stickers, images, and symbols are offensive or socially detrimental. Imagine yourself a young Jew, Homosexual, or other individual going to school and having to see all the Pro-Nazi symbolism. You oppose it, but trying to display socially unacceptable anti-Nazi symbols gets you kicked out of school (at the very least.)

Now that may be an extreme example, I could have very well used the Vietnam anti-war movement when it first got started, but it is still apropos. There are many people who for any number of reasons, oppose what you and I might find acceptable and right. In the case of homosexuality some are concerned for religious reasons, others out of fear (young males with fragile self-images), and more others out of ignorance. I don't agree with them, but I understand their concerns and I agree they have a right to express them like anyone else.

You are right that school is a place of education. But it should NOT be a place set aside for social indoctrination. By that I mean, students only allowed exposure to whatever is considered socially acceptable.