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Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348, W:350]

re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

You simply have no idea what you are talking about. Over 600 pounds of human remains were recovered from all passengers. Large sections of the aircraft were found as well as the black boxes. Tell me are you suggesting that that was made up? If so why? How do you know? What is your evidence?

He knows.

A more obvious case of trolling I have not seen here in a while. Nothing in the OP or this thread so far is worthy of a response.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Here is the problem with what you say. It assumes that there is some other story with or without pat answers.

You say:

I say great. Let me know what those theories are? Everytime I ask, I get stonewalled. I will take it as a given that any competing theory will have holes in it. It is guess work after all.

You sound like you know about these competeing theories about what happened on Sept 11, 2001. Tell me about them.

Don't just allude to them as if they exist. Tell me, point me in the direction, something, anything. Just do not respond telling me the official story must be wrong.

I must say, I am a little shocked. It appears PW4000 is not going to respond. Everywhere else on this forum if you say something, you are expected to be able to back it up. This little bit of DP decorum seems to have escaped many of the good people in the CT sub-forum
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

I've never been that involved in the conspiracy angle, as I've dismissed it out of hand. But when I think about that airplane crash and the debris that wasn't there, it does raise questions in MY mind. I think the OPer did a good job of outlining his thoughts . . . and he's gotten me to thinking.

Look at the difference between the debris at the O'Hare crash and his photos. It is curious.

If you want to get some updated information on this matter, read Christopher Bollyn's book "Solving 9-11", the 'Original Articles'. On page 303 of that book is an article written March 3, 2012. It is most informative, and after all these years, finally fully explains what happened at Shanksville, and how and why the county coroner came to retract his initial statements to the media.

Great thread PW4000! :)
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The thought is frightening and kinda clears up the Malaysia thing.

The comparison between 93 and the Malaysia flight is interesting. In both cases, the automatic transmissions of data between computers show the aircraft to be in the air AFTER their supposed crash, making said 'crash' to be impossible.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

The comparison between 93 and the Malaysia flight is interesting. In both cases, the automatic transmissions of data between computers show the aircraft to be in the air AFTER their supposed crash, making said 'crash' to be impossible.

Ahh HD peddling his nonsense again
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

And here we go again,....

Just one event of the many that day removed from context.
Preponderance of evidence ignored to concentrate on a single anomaly the OP poster can not understand.
Reversed burden of proof
No alternative hypothesis
And it appears the OP stopped doing research the afternoon of 9/11/2001 when they turned off the TV news.

More classic conspiracy (non)thinking. I eagerly anticipate this thread becoming yet another circular road to nowhere.

Removed from context? Are you drinking alcohol?

It is completely IN context.

In context, there was no Boeing at Shanksville, and every person there who said ANYTHING, said there was no Boeing. Every picture taken by anybody, video or still, shows NO BOEING.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Another truther who knows not of what they speak

Another truther who presents facts that are a thorn in your side. Facts that you are forced to deny. Facts that make you demonstrate your cognitive dissonance. :lol:
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Removed from context? Are you drinking alcohol?

It is completely IN context.

In context, there was no Boeing at Shanksville, and every person there who said ANYTHING, said there was no Boeing. Every picture taken by anybody, video or still, shows NO BOEING.

No HD there was a boeing at Shanksville ALL of the evidence proves that and you have NO evidence to deny it.
But you already know that
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Another truther who presents facts that are a thorn in your side. Facts that you are forced to deny. Facts that make you demonstrate your cognitive dissonance. :lol:

HD you dont have any facts you never have
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Quag

Why don't you trot out those pictures from the Moussaoui trial? You know, those pictures that in your fragile mind "prove" there was a Boeing there?
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

And here we go again,....

Just one event of the many that day removed from context.
Preponderance of evidence ignored to concentrate on a single anomaly the OP poster can not understand.
Reversed burden of proof
No alternative hypothesis
And it appears the OP stopped doing research the afternoon of 9/11/2001 when they turned off the TV news.

More classic conspiracy (non)thinking. I eagerly anticipate this thread becoming yet another circular road to nowhere.

Conspiracy theorists are just losers, obsessed with the need for some kind of grand conspiracy of "them" to explain away everything, and somehow empower themselves.

Never changes, but there is always a new conspiracy to make up and flog.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Quag

Why don't you trot out those pictures from the Moussaoui trial? You know, those pictures that in your fragile mind "prove" there was a Boeing there?

Fragile mind. Lol Im not the one supporting an immposibly complex CT that makes no logical sense all the while claiming Occam supports me.
Hey HD are you gonna try and explain ground effect. Come on now we all "know" yuou are an experienced "flight instructor" and must be good at explainign things.

Witing..... waiting...... waiting....
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

yeh but theyre the government and they got the guns so they can get away with it.

The usual conspiracy geek answer...when you have no answer, blame "the government!" cue the spooky music!
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Beefheart

Do you see the government as beneficent?
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

This forum and the way it is run is rather disingenuous at times. We sit here now 13 years removed from 911 and we still don't have answers to the most important questions. Most of the reason for this disconnect is that people don't understand the nature of the weapons used in 911. They were commercial aircraft and such instruments, when used as weapons of mass destruction, do leave specific and readily identifiable signatures in their wake.

The fact that the moderator decided to remove the pictures I posted showing exactly what we SHOULD be seeing as a direct of commercial aircraft carrying passengers crashing on U.S. soil, is very telling of the REASONS why most Americans still don't fully understand what 911 is all about. When you dumb-down the reality of tragic events such as 911 and you attempt to sterilize the end results of such events, you make people ignorant of that reality and you do them no service as a result.

I posted those pictures showing what real commercial heavy crash sites are supposed to look like, primarily because the American People have been lied to for nearly 13 years by the official story tellers. The American People have been told that such events result in entire commercial airframes that "disintegrate" into nothingness, or commercial airframes that simply vanish into the bowls of the earth, merely because the angle at impact was steep and that given such details, you should not expect to SEE much physical evidence in the wake of such impacts. ALL of that is hogwash and total nonsense to anyone knowing anything about commercial aviation crash sites.

So, while the American People continue to walk around each day, completely confused and snowed under about what commercial aircraft crash sites SHOULD look like, moderators on political forums continue to assist in that snowing under process by helping people to remain in the dark about the true net/net results of such tragic events. It is truly sad, that a forum which used to pride itself on being a place where either opinion or fact was not unnecessarily policed to the point of absurdity, now engages in such a level of censorship that basically renders the purpose of having such an Open Dialectic Forum utterly moot.

Those pictures, while being very gut wrenching, were indeed very realistic of what we should have seen coming out of the events of September 11th, 2001. The People should not remain in the dark about these matters.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

This forum and the way it is run is rather disingenuous at times. We sit here now 13 years removed from 911 and we still don't have answers to the most important questions. Most of the reason for this disconnect is that people don't understand the nature of the weapons used in 911. They were commercial aircraft and such instruments, when used as weapons of mass destruction, do leave specific and readily identifiable signatures in their wake.

The fact that the moderator decided to remove the pictures I posted showing exactly what we SHOULD be seeing as a direct of commercial aircraft carrying passengers crashing on U.S. soil, is very telling of the REASONS why most Americans still don't fully understand what 911 is all about. When you dumb-down the reality of tragic events such as 911 and you attempt to sterilize the end results of such events, you make people ignorant of that reality and you do them no service as a result.

I posted those pictures showing what real commercial heavy crash sites are supposed to look like, primarily because the American People have been lied to for nearly 13 years by the official story tellers. The American People have been told that such events result in entire commercial airframes that "disintegrate" into nothingness, or commercial airframes that simply vanish into the bowls of the earth, merely because the angle at impact was steep and that given such details, you should not expect to SEE much physical evidence in the wake of such impacts. ALL of that is hogwash and total nonsense to anyone knowing anything about commercial aviation crash sites.

So, while the American People continue to walk around each day, completely confused and snowed under about what commercial aircraft crash sites SHOULD look like, moderators on political forums continue to assist in that snowing under process by helping people to remain in the dark about the true net/net results of such tragic events. It is truly sad, that a forum which used to pride itself on being a place where either opinion or fact was not unnecessarily policed to the point of absurdity, now engages in such a level of censorship that basically renders the purpose of having such an Open Dialectic Forum utterly moot.

Those pictures, while being very gut wrenching, were indeed very realistic of what we should have seen coming out of the events of September 11th, 2001. The People should not remain in the dark about these matters.

Only people in the dark are truthers who refuse to admit 911 was perpetrated by terrorists who hijacked and crashed 4 planes that day.
 
Last edited:
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

If there was nothing at Shanksville, what were the first responders responding to? Very simple logic makes the whole truther house of cards collapse.


All these posts and still no answer for that, or the multitudes of al Qaeda members and affiliates that admitted their culpability. To listen to a truther, there is no Salafi terrorism whatsoever. It's just made up.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Here is the problem with what you say. It assumes that there is some other story with or without pat answers.

Once again, I have remained consistent for the past 13 years. I have always stated that I do not have a Theory Of Events. I have always maintained that I have Unanswered Questions of a technical nature. I have listed those questions on this and other political forum websites over the years and NO ONE has ever bothered to answer them directly. Those questions involve:

- Chemistry
- Physics
- Commercial Aircraft Engineering & Design Protocols
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Performance
- Commercial Aircraft Limit Dynamics
- Pilot Skill & Qualifications
- Commercial Building Construction
- Air Traffic Control Protocols
- US. Air Defense Protocols
- Airport Security Protocols (prior to 911)
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Investigation Protocols
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Geometry
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Physics
- Commercial Aircraft Avionics
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Control Systems
- Commercial Aircraft Inertial Navigation Systems
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Data Recorders
- Cell Phone Network Relay Systems


There is no "theory" here. There are a huge number of unanswered questions of a technical nature that nothing the government has ever produced even attempts to come close to answering head-on. In fact, the government has done nothing but run and hid from the serious questions surrounding the above subjects.

You still don't get the point being made. You believe what the government has told you - merely because it came from the government and not because what the government has said squares with the subjects listed above. The truth is that precious little of what you have been told is the "truth," actually squares with the myriad of subjects derived from the list above. Merely because you have been told what to think, does not mean that what you think is the truth - it simply means that you have been told it was the truth. So, you cling to it and never seriously question it. Why? Because, heretofore, you have not truly known what questions to ask.

The reason you don't know what questions to ask, is because you do not yet understand the instruments involved in making 911 happen. The weapons used were Commercial Aircraft. You desperately need to understand what that means. Every weapon deployed will always leave a Weapons Signature in its wake. If you cannot identify the weapon's signature, then you have solid ground to question the use of that weapon as the causation for the effect you have been told to believe.

When I look at 911, I DO NOT see the signature of the weapon that I was told was used to create the effect of cause. We live in a cause and effect universe - there can be no effect without a first cause, first premise. I am focusing on Flight 93 in this thread because it is one of the hottest smoking guns on planet earth - bar none. And, it is the total lack of weapons signature at the crash site that proves it is the biggest smoking gun in 911. There are several others, but this thread focuses on Flight 93.

Now, let's get back to the ground-zero issues:

- Can you impeach the testimony of the first responder Mayor and his brother-in-law?
- Can you explain the lack of physical evidence that a Boeing 757-222 impacted Shanksville?
- Can you explain why the crash site geometry at Shanksville, in no way matches angle of attack and speed last reported by Flight 93 just before impact?
- Can you explain the lack of human remains at the Shanksville crash site?
- Can you explain the lack of discovery in the high survivability components of a Boeing 757-2XX series aircraft at Shanksville?
- Can you explain how the engine components recovered from the crash site at Shanksville, managed to enter the Redox Reaction process just hours after impact?
- Can you explain how the engine components recovered from the crash site at Shanksville, do not match that of the Rolls Royce RB211-535 type?
- Can you explain why the NTSB was officially removed as the Lead Investigator by the Department of Defense and the FBI at the Shanksville crash site?


I'm not going to harp on this next issue too much, but being someone who flew quite a bit X-country in the U.S., and one who flew this particular flight on several occasions in the past back to SFO, I can't help but shake my head at the Load Factor relationships on September 11th, 2001. At that time, the average LF was ranging between 73% to 78% across the board. Yet, the LF for all four (4) aircraft allegedly involved in 911, was not just lower, but way lower for Coast-to-Coast flights. Flight 93, ran a Load Factor of 20% for that flight and that includes the four (4) alleged skyjackers. If you remove them from the calculation, the Flight 93 LF drops to a whopping 18% - again, for a Coast-to-Coast flight. Most airlines shoot for the highest LF on such flight profiles given the fuel costs involved.

It would be one thing of just one of the four (4) aircraft allegedly involved in 911 had such paltry numbers, but it does raise at least my eyebrows that the timing of 911, saw all four aircraft with such low LF profiles - simultaneously. Again, I won't ask anyone to explain that because I have been on continental flights myself that were rather thin. However, the month of September is a rather busy travel season for the airlines and Coast-to-Coast flight, especially those in the early morning, are typically packed and people are continuously being bumped and bribed with coupons, sky miles and hotel offers, because the airlines routinely overbook during that time frame. Again, I won't harp, but ALL four aircraft having such paltry LF numbers at precisely the same time does raise hair on the back of my neck - given what took place on 911.

Ok, you now have some homework to do and I await your intelligent reply.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Beefheart

Do you see the government as beneficent?

I see the government as 2.8 million American citizens who are pursuing a career that serves the American public. They are comprised of your neighbors and mine.

You see them as some covert entity continually coming up with evil plans that only the best and brightest among us can spot. People like you and Koko. Meanwhile the rest of the poplation lives blindly on, while plots that will destroy us all, are being hatched. Hwa hah hah :twisted:
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

And here we go again,....

Yep.

Just one event of the many that day removed from context.

Claiming discontinuity of event markers as proof of conspiracy theory is as old as the Roman Empire itself. Do you wish to try another nonsequitur in the hope that it actually comes off as rebuttal on the merits?


Preponderance of evidence ignored to concentrate on a single anomaly the OP poster can not understand.

Preponderance of the nonsense doth not make preponderance of the evidence. Furthermore, if this were a court case, the rule of evidence in a criminal court would be applied. In such a venue, the government would run for the hills because of the massive weakness of its case. Criminal verdicts are rendered only when the evidence demonstrates guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty - with the moral certainty being dependent on other factors, blah, blah, blah.

Lies, do not equal facts. Missing evidence or evidence that vanishes into thin air, or evidence that vanish into the earth's upper crust, or logical evidence that lacks logic and even common sense - none of these things equate to a preponderance of the evidence and ALL of these things result in the preponderance of the absurd.


Reversed burden of proof

Quite to the contrary. The government made the claim. Therefore, the government has the burden of proof to prove its case. Thus, far - the government has failed miserably in doing that and has instead relied on its assumed authority as the only source of its "proofs." That's a form of bullying.


No alternative hypothesis

In a criminal case, the defense need not prove its innocence. It is the prosecution that has the burden of demonstrating guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Moreover, merely having a half-baked theory and then calling it the official truth doth not prove anything other than the government's ability to ram "truth" down the throats of the public through farcical commissions of a highly biased nature, and Tom Clancy'esk science fiction novels cloaked in the form of independent studies. The NIST Report would have been better labeled the Mist & Fog Report, as it did nothing but cloud the issue with insane pseudo-science mascaraing itself as genuine effort.


And it appears the OP stopped doing research the afternoon of 9/11/2001 when they turned off the TV news.

It would appear that the respondent never did any research at all.


More classic conspiracy (non)thinking. I eagerly anticipate this thread becoming yet another circular road to nowhere.

More clueless bandwagoneering without even so much as a hint of technical aptitude to cover the myriad of technical subjects required to understand what actually happened on September 11th, 2001.

Once again: WHERE is the aircraft? WHERE are the remains? WHERE is the FDR data that shows an angle of attack crash site commensurate with the crash site geometry seen at Shanksville? WHERE is the impeachment of the testimony given by the Mayor and First Responders who did NOT work for the Federal Government?

Shanksville, is the smoking hole in the ground - without question.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Once again, I have remained consistent for the past 13 years. I have always stated that I do not have a Theory Of Events. I have always maintained that I have Unanswered Questions of a technical nature. I have listed those questions on this and other political forum websites over the years and NO ONE has ever bothered to answer them directly. Those questions involve:

- Chemistry
- Physics
- Commercial Aircraft Engineering & Design Protocols
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Performance
- Commercial Aircraft Limit Dynamics
- Pilot Skill & Qualifications
- Commercial Building Construction
- Air Traffic Control Protocols
- US. Air Defense Protocols
- Airport Security Protocols (prior to 911)
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Investigation Protocols
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Geometry
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Physics
- Commercial Aircraft Avionics
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Control Systems
- Commercial Aircraft Inertial Navigation Systems
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Data Recorders
- Cell Phone Network Relay Systems


There is no "theory" here. There are a huge number of unanswered questions of a technical nature that nothing the government has ever produced even attempts to come close to answering head-on. In fact, the government has done nothing but run and hid from the serious questions surrounding the above subjects.

You still don't get the point being made. You believe what the government has told you - merely because it came from the government and not because what the government has said squares with the subjects listed above. The truth is that precious little of what you have been told is the "truth," actually squares with the myriad of subjects derived from the list above. Merely because you have been told what to think, does not mean that what you think is the truth - it simply means that you have been told it was the truth. So, you cling to it and never seriously question it. Why? Because, heretofore, you have not truly known what questions to ask.

The reason you don't know what questions to ask, is because you do not yet understand the instruments involved in making 911 happen. The weapons used were Commercial Aircraft. You desperately need to understand what that means. Every weapon deployed will always leave a Weapons Signature in its wake. If you cannot identify the weapon's signature, then you have solid ground to question the use of that weapon as the causation for the effect you have been told to believe.

When I look at 911, I DO NOT see the signature of the weapon that I was told was used to create the effect of cause. We live in a cause and effect universe - there can be no effect without a first cause, first premise. I am focusing on Flight 93 in this thread because it is one of the hottest smoking guns on planet earth - bar none. And, it is the total lack of weapons signature at the crash site that proves it is the biggest smoking gun in 911. There are several others, but this thread focuses on Flight 93.

Now, let's get back to the ground-zero issues:

- Can you impeach the testimony of the first responder Mayor and his brother-in-law?
- Can you explain the lack of physical evidence that a Boeing 757-222 impacted Shanksville?
- Can you explain why the crash site geometry at Shanksville, in no way matches angle of attack and speed last reported by Flight 93 just before impact?
- Can you explain the lack of human remains at the Shanksville crash site?
- Can you explain the lack of discovery in the high survivability components of a Boeing 757-2XX series aircraft at Shanksville?
- Can you explain how the engine components recovered from the crash site at Shanksville, managed to enter the Redox Reaction process just hours after impact?
- Can you explain how the engine components recovered from the crash site at Shanksville, do not match that of the Rolls Royce RB211-535 type?
- Can you explain why the NTSB was officially removed as the Lead Investigator by the Department of Defense and the FBI at the Shanksville crash site?


I'm not going to harp on this next issue too much, but being someone who flew quite a bit X-country in the U.S., and one who flew this particular flight on several occasions in the past back to SFO, I can't help but shake my head at the Load Factor relationships on September 11th, 2001. At that time, the average LF was ranging between 73% to 78% across the board. Yet, the LF for all four (4) aircraft allegedly involved in 911, was not just lower, but way lower for Coast-to-Coast flights. Flight 93, ran a Load Factor of 20% for that flight and that includes the four (4) alleged skyjackers. If you remove them from the calculation, the Flight 93 LF drops to a whopping 18% - again, for a Coast-to-Coast flight. Most airlines shoot for the highest LF on such flight profiles given the fuel costs involved.

It would be one thing of just one of the four (4) aircraft allegedly involved in 911 had such paltry numbers, but it does raise at least my eyebrows that the timing of 911, saw all four aircraft with such low LF profiles - simultaneously. Again, I won't ask anyone to explain that because I have been on continental flights myself that were rather thin. However, the month of September is a rather busy travel season for the airlines and Coast-to-Coast flight, especially those in the early morning, are typically packed and people are continuously being bumped and bribed with coupons, sky miles and hotel offers, because the airlines routinely overbook during that time frame. Again, I won't harp, but ALL four aircraft having such paltry LF numbers at precisely the same time does raise hair on the back of my neck - given what took place on 911.

Ok, you now have some homework to do and I await your intelligent reply.


You are just repeating truther nonsense all of which has been debunked.
Reread all the threads on 911 and all the answers are there.
ALL the evidence points to 4 planes hijacked and crashed on 911, NO evidence has ever been provided by any truther to contradict this.
Conclusion 4 planes were hijacked and crashed on 911
Case closed
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Once again, I have remained consistent for the past 13 years. I have always stated that I do not have a Theory Of Events. I have always maintained that I have Unanswered Questions of a technical nature.
.
.
.
.

I admire the fact that you admit that you have not personally come up with any theories concerning the events In September 2001.

But, you did say:
There are competing Conspiracy Theories about what happened on September 11th, 2001.

I realize that none of these competeing theories are yours.

Now that we have established that you have no ownership over these competing theories can you provide the links to them?

i have asked for this before, your response always seems to pivot away from the question.

I am beginning to think that there are no competing theories. I am beginning to think you just said that as a throw away line.

i am sure that cannot be true though. It is obvious that you pride yourself on your relentless, leave no stone unturned, pursuit of all things related to 9//11.
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

So what hit at Shanksville? Where did the plane go, and what happened to the passengers?

A) Anything could have hit Shanksville.
B) The plane could have been flown anywhere remotely.
C) The passengers could have been flown anywhere the plane could have been flown remotely.

1) Why does the crash site not resemble that of a Boeing 757 crash site in geometry, chemistry or inertial characteristics?
2) Why did First Responders not attached to the federal government say they saw no aircraft on the ground?
3) Why are there no photos, video and/or official evidence showing the human remains of passengers?
4) Where are there no photos, video and/or official evidence showing the high survivability components of a Boeing 757?
5) Where would there little debris larger than the size of a telephone book as described by non-federal employee First Responders?

Why do you continue to ignore the painfully obvious?
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

Once again, I have remained consistent for the past 13 years. I have always stated that I do not have a Theory Of Events. I have always maintained that I have Unanswered Questions of a technical nature. I have listed those questions on this and other political forum websites over the years and NO ONE has ever bothered to answer them directly. Those questions involve:

- Chemistry
- Physics
- Commercial Aircraft Engineering & Design Protocols
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Performance
- Commercial Aircraft Limit Dynamics
- Pilot Skill & Qualifications
- Commercial Building Construction
- Air Traffic Control Protocols
- US. Air Defense Protocols
- Airport Security Protocols (prior to 911)
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Investigation Protocols
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Geometry
- Commercial Aircraft Crash Site Physics
- Commercial Aircraft Avionics
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Control Systems
- Commercial Aircraft Inertial Navigation Systems
- Commercial Aircraft Flight Data Recorders
- Cell Phone Network Relay Systems


There is no "theory" here. There are a huge number of unanswered questions of a technical nature that nothing the government has ever produced even attempts to come close to answering head-on. In fact, the government has done nothing but run and hid from the serious questions surrounding the above subjects.

You still don't get the point being made. You believe what the government has told you - merely because it came from the government and not because what the government has said squares with the subjects listed above. The truth is that precious little of what you have been told is the "truth," actually squares with the myriad of subjects derived from the list above. Merely because you have been told what to think, does not mean that what you think is the truth - it simply means that you have been told it was the truth. So, you cling to it and never seriously question it. Why? Because, heretofore, you have not truly known what questions to ask.

The reason you don't know what questions to ask, is because you do not yet understand the instruments involved in making 911 happen. The weapons used were Commercial Aircraft. You desperately need to understand what that means. Every weapon deployed will always leave a Weapons Signature in its wake. If you cannot identify the weapon's signature, then you have solid ground to question the use of that weapon as the causation for the effect you have been told to believe.

When I look at 911, I DO NOT see the signature of the weapon that I was told was used to create the effect of cause. We live in a cause and effect universe - there can be no effect without a first cause, first premise. I am focusing on Flight 93 in this thread because it is one of the hottest smoking guns on planet earth - bar none. And, it is the total lack of weapons signature at the crash site that proves it is the biggest smoking gun in 911. There are several others, but this thread focuses on Flight 93.

Now, let's get back to the ground-zero issues:

- Can you impeach the testimony of the first responder Mayor and his brother-in-law?
- Can you explain the lack of physical evidence that a Boeing 757-222 impacted Shanksville?
- Can you explain why the crash site geometry at Shanksville, in no way matches angle of attack and speed last reported by Flight 93 just before impact?
- Can you explain the lack of human remains at the Shanksville crash site?
- Can you explain the lack of discovery in the high survivability components of a Boeing 757-2XX series aircraft at Shanksville?
- Can you explain how the engine components recovered from the crash site at Shanksville, managed to enter the Redox Reaction process just hours after impact?
- Can you explain how the engine components recovered from the crash site at Shanksville, do not match that of the Rolls Royce RB211-535 type?
- Can you explain why the NTSB was officially removed as the Lead Investigator by the Department of Defense and the FBI at the Shanksville crash site?


I'm not going to harp on this next issue too much, but being someone who flew quite a bit X-country in the U.S., and one who flew this particular flight on several occasions in the past back to SFO, I can't help but shake my head at the Load Factor relationships on September 11th, 2001. At that time, the average LF was ranging between 73% to 78% across the board. Yet, the LF for all four (4) aircraft allegedly involved in 911, was not just lower, but way lower for Coast-to-Coast flights. Flight 93, ran a Load Factor of 20% for that flight and that includes the four (4) alleged skyjackers. If you remove them from the calculation, the Flight 93 LF drops to a whopping 18% - again, for a Coast-to-Coast flight. Most airlines shoot for the highest LF on such flight profiles given the fuel costs involved.

It would be one thing of just one of the four (4) aircraft allegedly involved in 911 had such paltry numbers, but it does raise at least my eyebrows that the timing of 911, saw all four aircraft with such low LF profiles - simultaneously. Again, I won't ask anyone to explain that because I have been on continental flights myself that were rather thin. However, the month of September is a rather busy travel season for the airlines and Coast-to-Coast flight, especially those in the early morning, are typically packed and people are continuously being bumped and bribed with coupons, sky miles and hotel offers, because the airlines routinely overbook during that time frame. Again, I won't harp, but ALL four aircraft having such paltry LF numbers at precisely the same time does raise hair on the back of my neck - given what took place on 911.

Ok, you now have some homework to do and I await your intelligent reply.


Again a text wall of nonsense....more than 600 lbs of human remains were collected and all passengers were identified by DNA...so why are you lying?
 
re: Shanksville: THE Smoking Gun & THE Litmus Test [W:348]

A) Anything could have hit Shanksville.
B) The plane could have been flown anywhere remotely.
C) The passengers could have been flown anywhere the plane could have been flown remotely.

But plane parts, black boxes and human remains were found at the crash site.
1) Why does the crash site not resemble that of a Boeing 757 crash site in geometry, chemistry or inertial characteristics?

Then please explain the exact geometry, chemistry and inertial characteristics we should have seen?


2) Why did First Responders not attached to the federal government say they saw no aircraft on the ground?

Because the plane, traveling straight into soft ground at high speed broke apart. But pieces were found.

3) Why are there no photos, video and/or official evidence showing the human remains of passengers?

Because the impact decimated the bodies but there is 600lbs of remains found. A human body is mostly water....crushed there isn't much left. You know there was an explosion right? As I posted earlier in a crash where the pilot was trying to save the plane there were no intact bodies....only parts.

4) Where are there no photos, video and/or official evidence showing the high survivability components of a Boeing 757?

There were parts found...truthers reject them.

5) Where would there little debris larger than the size of a telephone book as described by non-federal employee First Responders?

Yes a first statement....more was found.....
Why do you continue to ignore the painfully obvious?
I could ask you.
 
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