Raped 9-Year-Old Has Abortion

scourge99 · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
The archbishop went out of his way to explicitly state that while the mother was tossed from the church the father will NOT BE EXCOMMUNICATED because what he did- diddling his daughter - is not nearly as serious. In other words the monster deserves church while a desperate mother trying to help her 9 year old daughter does not.

I completly understand why the church views the abortion as a greater offense than rape, even if I don't agree with their positions. Abortion is the equivalent of premeditated murder in the eyes of the church. The results of murder are usually far worse than rape and obviously the church agrees.

jallman · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
than God isn't worth worshiping and should be seen as an antagonistic figure.

I hope that mantra brings you comfort as you repeat it between screams while you burn in hell, witch. :lol:

Laila · Mar 10, 2009

scourge99 said:
Abortion is the equivalent of premeditated murder in the eyes of the church. The results of murder are usually far worse than rape and obviously the church agrees.

In this case i think pro lifers and the church could agree Abortion was the lesser evil. This is a child! Not a woman who didn't use protection :S

Arcana XV · Mar 10, 2009

jallman said:
Not after he diddled his daughter, he doesn't. The diocese stepped in to defend a child rapist? Don't you find THAT odd and curious and more than a little political?

Yeah, what about him? We already established he should have been a non issue in all this. Except when he can be used to leverage the Church's will over the legal rights of the mother, huh?

Disgusting.

The step-father raped the child. Felicity is referring to the biological father here.

jallman · Mar 10, 2009

Laila said:
In this case i think pro lifers and the church could agree Abortion was the lesser evil. This is a child! Not a woman who didn't use protection :S

That would be true for most of us. But South American Catholics are a little on the irrational side. Hell, every other week they claim they see a Virgin Mary crying tears of blood appear on a tortilla or some such nonsense.

Jerry · Mar 10, 2009

Laila said:
In this case i think pro lifers and the church could agree Abortion was the lesser evil.

This story is a perfect example of how the issue of abortion needs to be dealt with exactly how prostitution was dealt with in Sweden: The woman (or girl, in this case) is regarded as a victim, not a perpetrator, just as the prostitute is regarded as a victim.

Laila · Mar 10, 2009

jallman said:
That would be true for most of us. But South American Catholics are a little on the irrational side. Hell, every other week they claim they see a Virgin Mary crying tears of blood appear on a tortilla or some such nonsense.

LOL, irrational is one way to describe them i suppose ..
Or Virgin Mary in the clouds =D

Crazy, crazy people ...

jallman · Mar 10, 2009

Arcana XV said:
The step-father raped the child. Felicity is referring to the biological father here.

Gotcha. Still doesn't change the fact that the Church attempted to extort the woman with threats of prison.

Screw that bishop. That was just wrong.

talloulou · Mar 10, 2009

jallman said:
I hope that mantra brings you comfort as you repeat it between screams while you burn in hell, witch. :lol:

Eventually even you Jallman will grow weary of being on your knees. I may be a sinner but I'm on my feet. :mrgreen:

Laila · Mar 10, 2009

Jerry said:
Don't be to sure about that.

Well okay, all sane pro lifers

jallman · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
Eventually even you Jallman will grow weary of being on your knees. I may be a sinner but I'm on my feet. :mrgreen:

Such a clever witch to use your heathen charms to cloud the minds of righteous men with unholy thoughts. :mrgreen:

talloulou · Mar 10, 2009

scourge99 said:
I completly understand why the church views the abortion as a greater offense than rape, even if I don't agree with their positions. Abortion is the equivalent of premeditated murder in the eyes of the church. The results of murder are usually far worse than rape and obviously the church agrees.

Well if you truly are a house of God concerned with the counseling and saving of souls you don't toss out a woman who in desperation took her 9 year old child for an abortion while simultaneously letting everyone know her father who diddled her can stay, can stay, yes the father who diddled her can stay. And then say something stupid like there are sins and then there are sins as if the mother is the monster that no good soul could relate to.

Give me a break.

The archbishop placed his palm in the hand of the devil when he chose to toss out a desperate woman and her child while allowing a monster to continue to eat at the table.

UtahBill · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
That's laughable but I agree the mother is better off getting as far the hell away from the church as she humanely can. The daughter, too, will be better off. Men of the cloth are sometimes just men in robes. A representative of God would never play off a dad diddling and impregnating his daughter as a minor sin while banning the desperate mother of a pregnant little child for abortion. If God did view the mother in this instance as a worse being than the father than God isn't worth worshiping and should be seen as an antagonistic figure.

again, when it comes to religion, I can only state what I find worthy of belief...
The god of the OT is quite antagonistic, the got of the NT is more forgiving.
It that isn't an indication that MAN has manipulated religion, nothing is....

scourge99 · Mar 10, 2009

Laila said:
In this case i think pro lifers and the church could agree Abortion was the lesser evil. This is a child! Not a woman who didn't use protection :S

The child wasn't excommunicated.

The church obviously believed that the abortion was not necessary at the time. I highly doubt (but perhaps I'm wrong) that the church expects anyone who faces a likely chance of dying from birth or pregnancy complications not to have an abortion.

They are simply being consistent with their laws.

scourge99 · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
Well if you truly are a house of God concerned with the counseling and saving of souls you don't toss out a woman who in desperation took her 9 year old child for an abortion while simultaneously letting everyone know her father who diddled her can stay, can stay, yes the father who diddled her can stay. And then say something stupid like there are sins and then there are sins as if the mother is the monster that no good soul could relate to.

Has the Catholic church EVER bent their own rules in such matters? You want this to be a "special case" for them?

The archbishop placed his palm in the hand of the devil when he chose to toss out a desperate woman and her child while allowing a monster to continue to eat at the table.

you act as though the father got a freepass? What Catholic law did he break that he did not receive proper punishment for?

You can disagree all you want with the Catholic church but it appears they are being 100% consistant with their stated dogma.

talloulou · Mar 10, 2009

scourge99 said:
The child wasn't excommunicated.

The church obviously believed that the abortion was not necessary at the time. I highly doubt (but perhaps I'm wrong) that the church expects anyone who faces a likely chance of dying from birth or pregnancy complications not to have an abortion.

They are simply being consistent with their laws.

Well if there is even the slightest grain of truth to Christianity then I fervently hope that the way this situation was handled is in contrast to the, "What would Jesus do....". The way Biff describes him I can't see Jesus backing this archbishop.

talloulou · Mar 10, 2009

scourge99 said:
The child wasn't excommunicated.

The church obviously believed that the abortion was not necessary at the time. I highly doubt (but perhaps I'm wrong) that the church expects anyone who faces a likely chance of dying from birth or pregnancy complications not to have an abortion.

They are simply being consistent with their laws.

By excommunicating the mother they've basically excommunicated the child. It's not like the 9 year old is gonna go live with daddy diddler and attend mass on Sundays.

talloulou · Mar 10, 2009

scourge99 said:
Has the Catholic church EVER bent their own rules in such matters? You want this to be a "special case" for them?

you act as though the father got a freepass? What Catholic law did he break that he did not receive proper punishment for?

You can disagree all you want with the Catholic church but it appears they are being 100% consistant with their stated dogma.

I wouldn't have said much had the church just spoke against the abortion. The archbishop instead decided to specifically compare the mother to the father and explicitly point out that the mother had to go while the father still had a home in the church. I thought that was tasteless, crude, and probably the crux of all the outrage against the church. The archbishop spoke about the sins of the mother and the father in one breath and pointed out that one was worthy of excommunication while the other was not. If that's their stance -fine. They can deal with the outrage and downfall that it causes.

jallman · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
I wouldn't have said much had the church just spoke against the abortion. The archbishop instead decided to specifically compare the mother to the father and explicitly point out that the mother had to go while the father still had a home in the church. I thought that was tasteless, crude, and probably the crux of all the outrage against the church. The archbishop spoke about the sins of the mother and the father in one breath and pointed out that one was worthy of excommunication while the other was not. If that's their stance -fine. They can deal with the outrage and downfall that it causes.

That's certainly a big issue but my biggest complaint is the diocese mobilizing lawyers to threaten the mother when their "spiritual guidance" failed to do the trick.

Smacks of inquisition to me.

Jerry · Mar 10, 2009

jallman said:
That's certainly a big issue but my biggest complaint is the diocese mobilizing lawyers to threaten the mother when their "spiritual guidance" failed to do the trick.

Smacks of inquisition to me.

Forget the religious aspect of all this: If mommy isn't adequately protecting her child from a pedophile, maybe legal action is appropriate.

jallman · Mar 10, 2009

Jerry said:
Forget the religious aspect of all this: If mommy isn't adequately protecting her child from a pedophile, maybe legal action is appropriate.

I can't believe you just attempted that with me. :doh

scourge99 · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
By excommunicating the mother they've basically excommunicated the child.

excommunications are not permenant. It is a punishment, yes.

It's not like the 9 year old is gonna go live with daddy diddler and attend mass on Sundays.

who is to say this wasn't taken into account?

Felicity · Mar 10, 2009

jallman said:
Gotcha. Still doesn't change the fact that the Church attempted to extort the woman with threats of prison.

Screw that bishop. That was just wrong.

The Bishop didn't do that--a lawyer simply SAID some ****. I think the lawyer's name is Marcio Miranda. I'm not even sure that he's representing ANYONE...just some staff lawyer at the archdiocese as far as I can tell. :shrug:

scourge99 · Mar 10, 2009

talloulou said:
I wouldn't have said much had the church just spoke against the abortion. The archbishop instead decided to specifically compare the mother to the father and explicitly point out that the mother had to go while the father still had a home in the church. I thought that was tasteless, crude, and probably the crux of all the outrage against the church. The archbishop spoke about the sins of the mother and the father in one breath and pointed out that one was worthy of excommunication while the other was not. If that's their stance -fine. They can deal with the outrage and downfall that it causes.

Its already been thouroughly determined that in this case the CC finds rapie and incest a lesser crime than abortion. Disagree all you want. They are being consistant with their dogma.

Jerry · Mar 10, 2009

jallman said:
I can't believe you just attempted that with me. :doh

Step-dad is in jail, and the girl had an abortion. If the church doesn't like that, that's fine, they are free to go in the corner with a bottle of lube and "excommunicate" 'till it chafes. They have every right.

Now if there's some element of the church which is operating strictly within secular law in a legitimate attempt to protect the child, then to me it doesn't matter who's cutting the lawyer's pay check.