• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Obamacare's check-up[W:180] (1 Viewer)

Threegoofs said:
Scary to read stuff that might change your fixed irrational beliefs, eh?


Like I said and linked to, he said this about HIS plan. His plan was not passed. Maybe he should have pushed harder for it, that's a legitimate criticism. But to pin this quote on him for passed legislation when he never said it would do this is dishonest.

But I guess your RW media is telling you this, and since you can't bear to read anything contradictory, you accept it as truth.
Click to expand...

Not scary to read. I'm not ignorant enough to read that site. I like my IQ to stay high and reading partisan garbage would lower it.

Which "RW" media is telling me that Obama said repeatedly that he would lower costs by $2500 for the "typical family"? I'd like to know. By the way, the only political cable shows I ever watch on TV are on MSNBC. When did they become "RW"?
 
humbolt said:
The whole country knows what he said. Adding qualifiers after the fact doesn't change the statement. It just shows how disingenuous he is and how willing parts of the media are to carry his water. If he doesn't like the perception that the ACA makes him a liar, he should take it up with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. Besides, Obama signed the damned thing, so by his own hand he made himself the liar that he is.
Click to expand...

Ah. I understand now. Rational thinking and normal cognition are totally secondary to your mind being made up.
 
humbolt said:
Heh. Just like I don't know what job I might have lost had Obama not saved it. I should inform you that the moon was about to explode last night. Were it not for my herculean efforts, we wouldn't exist as a planet today. You're welcome. I'm a wonderful guy.
Click to expand...

Did you have one of those shovel ready jobs that weren't as shovel ready as they expected?
 
tres borrachos said:
Not scary to read. I'm not ignorant enough to read that site. I like my IQ to stay high and reading partisan garbage would lower it.

Which "RW" media is telling me that Obama said repeatedly that he would lower costs by $2500 for the "typical family"? I'd like to know. By the way, the only political cable shows I ever watch on TV are on MSNBC. When did they become "RW"?
Click to expand...


All I can tell you is youre sticking with this dishonest $2500 meme. I dont know where you pick up your delusional beliefs. But that started on the right wing side a while ago, and you're carrying that water to the grave, apparently.
 
Threegoofs said:
All I can tell you is youre sticking with this dishonest $2500 meme. I dont know where you pick up your delusional beliefs. But that started on the right wing side a while ago, and you're carrying that water to the grave, apparently.
Click to expand...

It's dishonest now? So all those YouTube clips I could link of Obama saying that are all made up? Really?

You didn't tell me which "RW" media is feeding me information yet. Can I expect to see that answer soon, since you claimed it to be so?
 
Beaudreaux said:
I still haven't been told whether "enrolled" or "signed up" equals actual policies being issued to actual people with payments for those policies being payed with real money.

Maybe I missed it.

One thing I didn't miss was the HUGE increase in my premium, deductible and co-pays. But maybe that's just me.

One last question: How is it amazing when people do what they are required to do by law, or should I say, forced to do by law? Just wondering.
Click to expand...
Lots of people signed up. Of course...they were the ones that already paid for health care and had their plans cancelled on them...but still....

If they kill another 20-30 million health care plans they should get a good 15-20 million new enrollees! Imagine the self congratulatory high fives THEN! Wahooo!!!!!
 
Threegoofs said:
All I can tell you is youre sticking with this dishonest $2500 meme.
Click to expand...

What did you expect?

Death panels didn't pan out

The exchanges will collapse didn't pan out

Young people won't sign up didn't pan out

People won't pay didn't pan out

They just don't have much left
 
tres borrachos said:
Did you have one of those shovel ready jobs that weren't as shovel ready as they expected?
Click to expand...

I don't want to claim some vast knowledge of the future, but I retired at 57 in 2007 - before our recent unpleasantness. There are no shovel ready jobs in construction unless they're in your back yard. It does sound good, but it's played for those without knowledge about how things get built. It doesn't happen overnight, over weeks, or for most government projects, over months and months or years and years.
 
tres borrachos said:
It's dishonest now? So all those YouTube clips I could link of Obama saying that are all made up? Really?

You didn't tell me which "RW" media is feeding me information yet. Can I expect to see that answer soon, since you claimed it to be so?
Click to expand...

Are you intentionally being obtuse, or do you not read any of the posts that I write? I didnt just say it was dishonest - I explained myself quite clearly, with links describing timelines and references to show O was also pushing a public option (links that you refused to read because they might infect you with.... knowledge.. or something).

All I know, I'm pretty sure you didnt dig through Obama's campaign speeches in 2008 to come up with this $2500 claim in 2014. I'm guessing some journalist did that for you. Who was it? Only you would know.
 
Last edited:
humbolt said:
I don't want to claim some vast knowledge of the future, but I retired at 57 in 2007 - before our recent unpleasantness. There are no shovel ready jobs in construction unless they're in your back yard. It does sound good, but it's played for those without knowledge about how things get built. It doesn't happen overnight, over weeks, or for most government projects, over months and months or years and years.
Click to expand...

In the meantime, we'll be told they are working on it, so stop whining! Got it! :lol:
 
Threegoofs said:
Are you intentionally being obtuse, or do you not read any of the posts that I write?

All I know, I'm pretty sure you didnt dig through Obama's campaign speeches in 2008 to come up with this $2500 claim in 2014. I'm guessing some journalist did that for you. Who was it? Only you would know.
Click to expand...

So the only way for this "typical American family" to save $2500 a year was to implement a single payer system. Of course! Too bad David Cutler, one of the economists who advised Obama during the 2008 campaign, disagrees with what you're saying. According to him - when confronted with the $2500 claim:

the calculation encompassed total health care costs, not just premiums. These would include out-of-pocket costs, employer-provided insurance costs, and taxes to pay for public insurance programs.


Employer provided insurance costs in a single payer plan? Really?

The Obama speeches claiming a $2500 savings were shown repeatedly on MSNBC. You do know MSNBC, yes?
 
Threegoofs said:
Ah. I understand now. Rational thinking and normal cognition are totally secondary to your mind being made up.
Click to expand...

IOW, it's my fault Obama said what he did. I don't remember forcing him to say those things. So the fact that premiums are going up rather than saving families money should be considered in light of what? That Obama signed a bill that didn't do what he said it would? This is rational thinking and normal cognition? That's a hoot. Obama seemed pretty pleased when he signed it. Remember? It was all over the media. As Biden said, it was a big ****ing deal. Smiles and back slapping all around.
 
Interesting.

Obama (Bristol, Va., June 5): In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year. And we’ll do it by investing in disease prevention, not just disease management; by investing in a paperless health care system to reduce administrative costs; and by covering every single American and making sure that they can take their health care with them if they lose their job. … And we won’t do all this twenty years from now, or ten years from now. We’ll do it by the end of my first term as president of the United States.



Where's the single payer system he was talking about?

Obama’s Inflated Health “Savings”
 
But take hope, fellow patriots! Cutler has found a way to make Obama's $2500 lie look plausible. In 2016 you may see a reduction in GDP which somehow is your savings of $2500!

Before he was criticized for his statements about insurance continuity, President Obama was lambasted for his forecasts of cost savings. In 2007, Obama asserted that his health-care reform plan would save $2,500 per family relative to the trends at the time. The criticism was harsh; I know because I helped the then-senator make this forecast. Yet events have shown him to be right. Between early 2009 and now, the Office of the Actuaries at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services has lowered its forecast of medical spending in 2016 by 1 percentage point of GDP. In dollar terms, this is $2,500 for a family of four.



The health-care law’s success story: Slowing down medical costs - The Washington Post
 
tres borrachos said:
Interesting.

Obama (Bristol, Va., June 5): In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year. And we’ll do it by investing in disease prevention, not just disease management; by investing in a paperless health care system to reduce administrative costs; and by covering every single American and making sure that they can take their health care with them if they lose their job. … And we won’t do all this twenty years from now, or ten years from now. We’ll do it by the end of my first term as president of the United States.



Where's the single payer system he was talking about?

Obama’s Inflated Health “Savings”
Click to expand...

I think the inflated claims ebb and flow according to the relative inflation of Obama's ego. "You know, Kathleen, I'm feeling a little down today. Let's just say the average family will save $2499 under the ACA in 2030. Maybe that will pump me up more than a round of golf with Tiger, and it sounds so precise."
 
humbolt said:
I think the inflated claims ebb and flow according to the relative inflation of Obama's ego. "You know, Kathleen, I'm feeling a little down today. Let's just say the average family will save $2499 under the ACA in 2030. Maybe that will pump me up more than a round of golf with Tiger, and it sounds so precise."
Click to expand...

:lamo: .. :thumbs:
 
tres borrachos said:
But take hope, fellow patriots! Cutler has found a way to make Obama's $2500 lie look plausible. In 2016 you may see a reduction in GDP which somehow is your savings of $2500!

Before he was criticized for his statements about insurance continuity, President Obama was lambasted for his forecasts of cost savings. In 2007, Obama asserted that his health-care reform plan would save $2,500 per family relative to the trends at the time. The criticism was harsh; I know because I helped the then-senator make this forecast. Yet events have shown him to be right. Between early 2009 and now, the Office of the Actuaries at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services has lowered its forecast of medical spending in 2016 by 1 percentage point of GDP. In dollar terms, this is $2,500 for a family of four.



The health-care law’s success story: Slowing down medical costs - The Washington Post
Click to expand...

Reminds me of squeezing an 8-inch foot into a 6-inch pair of heels - it can be done, but it's damn uncomfortable, and it's still conjecture at this point about the future of medical spending. Maybe they can lower the cost of food and everything else, too! Wouldn't that be nice? :mrgreen:
 
tres borrachos said:
So the only way for this "typical American family" to save $2500 a year was to implement a single payer system. Of course! Too bad David Cutler, one of the economists who advised Obama during the 2008 campaign, disagrees with what you're saying. According to him - when confronted with the $2500 claim:

the calculation encompassed total health care costs, not just premiums. These would include out-of-pocket costs, employer-provided insurance costs, and taxes to pay for public insurance programs.


Employer provided insurance costs in a single payer plan? Really?

The Obama speeches claiming a $2500 savings were shown repeatedly on MSNBC. You do know MSNBC, yes?
Click to expand...

Single payer plan?

Do you understand what the public option is?

Oh, right. You refuse to read explanations of it so you think its a single payer plan.

I really cant decide if you are being deliberately dishonest or you dont understand my fairly clear point.
 
humbolt said:
IOW, it's my fault Obama said what he did. I don't remember forcing him to say those things. So the fact that premiums are going up rather than saving families money should be considered in light of what? That Obama signed a bill that didn't do what he said it would? This is rational thinking and normal cognition? That's a hoot. Obama seemed pretty pleased when he signed it. Remember? It was all over the media. As Biden said, it was a big ****ing deal. Smiles and back slapping all around.
Click to expand...

I really dont know how to make this any clearer. Obama made the $2500 claim in 2008, BEFORE the ACA was brought to Congress. His initial plan was changed quite significantly (including the stripping of a public option). So the PPACA that was signed was DIFFERENT from the plan Obama was talking about in mid 2008, and he didnt even bother to continue to make the claim in the month leading up to the election.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top Bottom