Noah, Bill Maher Calls Out the Stupid

[phattonez]

But you are asking people to behave in ways governed by your specific beliefs. The atheist rejects the concept of an omnipotent creator simply because there is ZERO evidence of any nature showing that said omnipotent being exists/existed and that every so called justification provided by believers in the past has been found in error - so until some verifiable evidence appears ..... pfffft!

The agnostic is not quite so strict, differing only in saying, "I ain't seen nothing yet, therefore I can't decide."

Unless you can deal with the argument then I'm done with you.

 

[phattonez]

I do not understand what you mean when you use the word actuality as you have. In fact I don't think you do. I in fact I don't think it means anything.

Can you define it without using God? I say this because if it's definition is Actuality is what God is then it's utterly meaningless.

Your ignorance of a subject does not make words meaningless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiality_and_actuality

 

[Tim the plumber]

Originally Posted by Tim the plumber
They had different ideas before then did they?

"This is what the Church believes and has always believed".

Do you suspend reading comprehension when dealing with theists?

They had a conference to decide this idea of what God is. Before that they presumably had other ideas. That they had to have a conference means that they had to agree about it. That means that there was disagreement before.

It's really easy to grasp.

Do the Jews have the same idea? Do the other branches of Christian faith? Are you Catholic?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Your ignorance of a subject does not make words meaningless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiality_and_actuality

The concept of potentiality, in this context, generally refers to any "possibility" that a thing can be said to have. Aristotle did not consider all possibilities the same, and emphasized the importance of those that become real of their own accord when conditions are right and nothing stops them.[3] Actuality, in contrast to potentiality, is the motion, change or activity that represents an exercise or fulfillment of a possibility, when a possibility becomes real in the fullest sense.[4]

These concepts, in modified forms, remained very important into the middle ages, influencing the development of medieval theology in several ways. Going further into modern times, while the understanding of nature (and, according to some interpretations, deity) implied by the dichotomy lost importance, the terminology has found new uses, developing indirectly from the old. This is most obvious in words like "energy" and "dynamic" (words brought into modern physics by Leibniz) but also in examples such as the biological concept of an "entelechy".

So God is the motion, change or activity that represents an exercise or fulfillment of a possibility. OK.... If you understand that good luck to you. I don't.

Can you give me an example of this or otherwise explain what actuality is. I currently think it has no real meaning. It might have meaning in a different universe which worked differently to this one but in this much more straight forward universe it seems meaningless to me.

 

[Cephus]

Any supposed instances of a "changing" God are illogical and thus must be read figuratively.

Meaning anything that you believe is automatically right and you get to change the rules to maintain that position. Sure. :roll:

 

[Manc Skipper]

"Actuality, in contrast to potentiality, is the motion, change or activity that represents an exercise or fulfillment of a possibility, when a possibility becomes real in the fullest sense."

How does this become transmogrified into a god?

 

[calamity]

"Actuality, in contrast to potentiality, is the motion, change or activity that represents an exercise or fulfillment of a possibility, when a possibility becomes real in the fullest sense."

How does this become transmogrified into a god?

Some--correction---most people need a god in order to make sense of things. I'm not sure why.

 

[RogueWarrior]

"Actuality, in contrast to potentiality, is the motion, change or activity that represents an exercise or fulfillment of a possibility, when a possibility becomes real in the fullest sense."

How does this become transmogrified into a god?

Unless you quote something of his, he probably won't see the question.
You are right though, cosmological arguments lead to a possible first cause. There is no information whether the cause is natural or supernatural. It doesn't have information on supposed omniscience or omnipotence of gods.

 

[Cephus]

Some--correction---most people need a god in order to make sense of things. I'm not sure why.

Because it's emotionally comforting. It makes them feel important and special. They don't have to do anything difficult like think and reason.

 

[phattonez]

Meaning anything that you believe is automatically right and you get to change the rules to maintain that position. Sure. :roll:

It is the only logical solution.

 

[phattonez]

"Actuality, in contrast to potentiality, is the motion, change or activity that represents an exercise or fulfillment of a possibility, when a possibility becomes real in the fullest sense."

How does this become transmogrified into a god?

Because you are bringing in your preconceptions of God and distorting the picture. You don't understand God as the classical theologians saw God. Instead you'd rather grapple with the personal God that people have no philosophical basis for.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Because you are bringing in your preconceptions of God and distorting the picture. You don't understand God as the classical theologians saw God. Instead you'd rather grapple with the personal God that people have no philosophical basis for.

Your picture is blank. Fill it in please. What does that statement contain that makes you think "God"?

 

[Cephus]

It is the only logical solution.

For someone who has no clue what "logic" means.

 

[RogueWarrior]

Your picture is blank. Fill it in please. What does that statement contain that makes you think "God"?

because he said so?:lamo

 

[phattonez]

Your picture is blank. Fill it in please. What does that statement contain that makes you think "God"?

The only property offered from this argument is pure actuality. We can grasp other qualities from other arguments, but this pure actuality is that which we call God. Classical theists do not believe in a personal God in the way you probably think of God.

 

[phattonez]

For someone who has no clue what "logic" means.

A typical militant atheist refusal to deal with real theological arguments.

 

[Manc Skipper]

The only property offered from this argument is pure actuality. We can grasp other qualities from other arguments, but this pure actuality is that which we call God. Classical theists do not believe in a personal God in the way you probably think of God.

A god so nebulous as to be indistinguishable from the background isn't worth the name.

 

[phattonez]

A god so nebulous as to be indistinguishable from the background isn't worth the name.

Okay.

 

[Cephus]

A typical militant atheist refusal to deal with real theological arguments.

That's because you don't actually have any arguments, you just have claims, backed up by blind faith and wishful thinking. Come back when you manage to find an actual argument.

 

[Manc Skipper]

A typical militant atheist refusal to deal with real theological arguments.

It's a severely secondhand one.

 

[Alyssa]

Re: Bill Maher: God a ‘psychotic mass murderer’ who ‘drowns babies’

Well, for an avowed atheist, Bill Maher saying that "God," is a "this or a that," is oxymoronic to begin with.

I think in his gnashing of his teeth, he was mocking the biblical account for "God," which, pretty much presents Him as a psychotic mass murderer. Who can deny that really?

It's not murder when God does it.

 

[calamity]

Re: Bill Maher: God a ‘psychotic mass murderer’ who ‘drowns babies’

It's not murder when God does it.

THat seems to be the Christian consensus in the abortion threads.

 

[obvious Child]

Anyone who disagrees with me must be stupid! Ah yes, tolerance at its finest.

Actually, if you read what I wrote, its saying anyone who argues with the testable properties of water must be stupid.

Answer me this, if I fill my kitchen sink to nearly the brim, then place in at the same time a 12 oz nickle ball and a single pigeon leather, which will sink faster? If you're a literal creationist, you're going to argue the feather, because it's more complex. Tell me how that doesn't make you stupid.

 

[Geoist]

Here's a good rant which pokes fun at the new movie, "Noah" and then goes further by ripping on a few points beyond.

I didn't know 'Noah' was meant to be a documentary.

 

[calamity]

I didn't know 'Noah' was meant to be a documentary.

Gets me back to wondering how people can peddle that nonsense without calling it fiction. I guess the answer to that is.

Religion = Fiction