Need a job....5.8 million job openings

[jmotivator]

You are lying. The description he gave (an accountant with an accounting degree and accounting experience) is not the description of an accounting clerk.

It describes an accountant

HAHAH! No, I'm not lying, you are just getting desperate. He described a data entry level member of an accounting staff with a 2 year degree. The only thing you have to justify your wrong conclusion is what he called the position but the evidence clearly pointed to a position for which the salary was fair. So your insistence that he was underpaying for the job is simply erroneous and based on you own faulty assumptions.

Again I ask, are you saying that an accounting clerk doesn't gain accounting experience?

And also I ask, when will you apologize for lying about the position that he claimed to have at the dealership?

Welcome to the many failed claims of Sangha: "He claimed he was the owner"- False, "He's hiring an accountant"- False, "accounting clerks don't have accounting experience" - False, "Only the business owner can sign checks" - LOL False....

 

[ludin]

No he did not! He described a data entry level member of the accounting team with an associate's degree in accounting at a salary level equal to an accounting clerk. He described an accounting clerk!

You are fixated on the one word, and making the incorrect assumption that his degree requirement meant a 4 year degree. This is obviously not true as early on he stated that he was considering a candidate with a 2 year degree. You made bad assumption after bad assumption and drew the wrong conclusion.

most accounting pay when starting out is between 35-45k a year.
once you have some experience it can go up or if you prove that you are competent.

the problem is that these kids out of college with 0 experience think they should make 60-80k a year.
nope try again.

yep 35-45k for a starting accounting position is good pay.

 

[ludin]

Again, you can't make a claim on being correct....when you cannot know. You cannot know that the story told is correct, you cannot verify it.

ol the irony. You cannot make the claim that it is false you have no proof to support it nor can you verify it.

Again, prove I am wrong, you cannot, you are relying on information that cannot be verified. Again, the basic fact escapes you, you are also basing your argument on a story, it is not "information", it is a story, a tale, unverifiable. You are ignorant too, you cannot know that any of what was told to us by the OP is true, is fact.

No you have to prove that you are right. You are the one making the claim that the OP is in someway lying or not telling the truth.
what evidence do you have to support this. So far you have presented 0 evidence to show that he isn't telling the truth nor have
you supported your position with anything that is verifiable.
hmmm

You cannot prove I am wrong, you cannot verify the facts, there are no facts, there are stories, tale and assertions.

he doesn't have to prove you wrong you have to prove yourself correct. your right you have no facts so I guess that means
you are wrong.

A picture of something...is not the thing. I can photoshop a lighthouse in the parking lot of a dealership and say "see, this exists", it does not me it is true, or that what i claim exists, the basis is not proven.

so where is your evidence that he is lying or not being honest.

But...there you are....you are waiting for more "info" to determine validity....yet you want to claim validity for a story from the OP......it is all about belief....not knowing. You are operating on faith based argument. The info I want....is something I can independently verify. We won't be able to do that without the OP providing inside info. He would have to link to his job posting, a w2 of those he has hired in the past, the levels of education of the individuals. That is not going to happen.

again you are doing the same thing you have 0 evidence to prove that the OP is not telling the truth in some fashion.
so please provide that you have concrete evidence to support your claim or disown your claim for what it is BS.

you are shifting the burden of proof.

 

[jmotivator]

The starting salary here for accounting clerks(they don't call them that here) is way higher. The guys who work in the mailroom start out at about 36 to 38.

I think "they don't call them that here" is a pretty important point as well given that Gimme and Sangha's whole argument revolves around what the position is called at the dealership where gdgyva is GM. It very well could be that the dealership calls accounting clerks "staff accountants" or whatever they want (I've worked in many companies where the position naming was generous to employees to help their resume), but the duties and requirements of the position as gdgyva spelled it out indicate that the position is commonly called "accounting clerk" and he is paying fairly for that level of skill.

 

[pinqy]

I think "they don't call them that here" is a pretty important point as well given that Gimme and Sangha's whole argument revolves around what the position is called at the dealership where gdgyva is GM. It very well could be that the dealership calls accounting clerks "staff accountants" or whatever they want (I've worked in many companies where the position naming was generous to employees to help their resume), but the duties and requirements of the position as gdgyva spelled it out indicate that the position is commonly called "accounting clerk" and he is paying fairly for that level of skill.

Right.....as I said earlier, when compiling the occupational statistics, BLS ignores the title and goes by function. Accountant is a common one where the title and duties don't always match. Many "accountants" are really bookkeepers or accounting clerks.

Accountant: Examine, analyze, and interpret accounting records to prepare financial statements, give advice, or audit and evaluate statements prepared by others. Install or advise on systems of recording costs or other financial and budgetary data. Excludes "Tax Examiners and Collectors, and Revenue Agents" (13-2081).

Bookkeeping, Accounting, and Auditing Clerks: Compute, classify, and record numerical data to keep financial records complete. Perform any combination of routine calculating, posting, and verifying duties to obtain primary financial data for use in maintaining accounting records. May also check the accuracy of figures, calculations, and postings pertaining to business transactions recorded by other workers. Excludes "Payroll and Timekeeping Clerks" (43-3051).

Payroll and Timekeeping Clerks Compile and record employee time and payroll data. May compute employees' time worked, production, and commission. May compute and post wages and deductions, or prepare paychecks. Excludes "Bookkeeping, Accounting, and Auditing Clerks" (43-3031)

Any of those, and probably others, can be called "accountants" at a work site.

OES Documentation

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Nope.

yep, the burden of proof....is always on the presenter of an argument, that's always how debate works.

You made a guess that is obviously wrong. He's not underpaying an Accountant, he is fairly paying an accounting clerk. If your only defense is that the position may not exist at all then your initial guess is still wrong. :lamo

my initial guess was that all of it was bs, which most anecdotes are.

 

[sangha]

No he did not! He described a data entry level member of the accounting team with an associate's degree in accounting at a salary level equal to an accounting clerk. He described an accounting clerk!

No he said he wanted an accountant with an accounting degree (which is not an AA degree) and experience as an accountant for a job as a Staff Accountant. When challenged about the pay, he said it was decent pay for an ACCOUNTANT

but a regular accounting grad from a normal college, in a normal job.....

yeah....35-40k will get them in the door, and then it is up to them where they end up

these werent cpa positions...but good office staff accounting positions

base pay 35-40k to start

i need that person to have actual ACCOUNTING knowledge and experience....

35-40k starting for a basic staff accountant is lousy pay?

 

[sangha]

HAHAH! No, I'm not lying, you are just getting desperate. He described a data entry level member of an accounting staff with a 2 year degree.

No, he said he was looking for an accountant with an accounting degree and accounting experience for a job as a staff accountant

but a regular accounting grad from a normal college, in a normal job.....

yeah....35-40k will get them in the door, and then it is up to them where they end up

these werent cpa positions...but good office staff accounting positions

base pay 35-40k to start

i need that person to have actual ACCOUNTING knowledge and experience....

35-40k starting for a basic staff accountant is lousy pay?

 

[gdgyva]

from page 5 of this thread....quoted from MY post

This is data entry, payables, receivables, and income recording

This isn't my top accountants....or my controller

And the pay is what you start at....

but keep arguing about what i said...or what i posted...

and last point before i leave my thread

i can, and will ask for the moon when looking for an employee....

doesnt mean i always get exactly what i want....

as a businessman, you "should" understand that concept....

but the more you write, the less i think you know about business

 

[Mason66]

from page 5 of this thread....quoted from MY post

This is data entry, payables, receivables, and income recording

This isn't my top accountants....or my controller

And the pay is what you start at....

but keep arguing about what i said...or what i posted...

and last point before i leave my thread

i can, and will ask for the moon when looking for an employee....

doesnt mean i always get exactly what i want....

as a businessman, you "should" understand that concept....

but the more you write, the less i think you know about business

Don't you know you should pay everybody the same 6 figure salary from the janitor to the CEO?

Skill means nothing.

 

[sangha]

from page 5 of this thread....quoted from MY post

This is data entry, payables, receivables, and income recording

This isn't my top accountants....or my controller

And the pay is what you start at....

That was *after* you got called on your BS. Let's look at what you said on PAGE 1, before you got called out

these werent cpa positions...but good office staff accounting positions

You said you were looking for someone with accounting experience, not someone who was starting out.

You also said

35-40k starting for a basic staff accountant is lousy pay?

It's clear you said you were looking for a "staff accountant", not an accountant clerk with no experience who was looking to start in accounting. It's just as clear that you believed that 35-40K is good pay for a staff accountant.

At least, that's where you started out. You only shifted course when you were challenged

 

[HenryChinaski]

I think "they don't call them that here" is a pretty important point as well given that Gimme and Sangha's whole argument revolves around what the position is called at the dealership where gdgyva is GM. It very well could be that the dealership calls accounting clerks "staff accountants" or whatever they want (I've worked in many companies where the position naming was generous to employees to help their resume), but the duties and requirements of the position as gdgyva spelled it out indicate that the position is commonly called "accounting clerk" and he is paying fairly for that level of skill.

At this firm, you've got Admin assistants. They don't deal with taxes. The "accounting clerks" as the term is being used here go by something like Tax level 1, Tax Level 2 etc, The starting salaries here for all positions mentioned are much higher than you would find elsewhere. They're also competitive and in line with the starting salaries of the other big 3. I agree with you the position naming. I'd make 1/2 of my salary at another company as they'd call my position something else entirely but my duties would be identical.

 

[jmotivator]

yep, the burden of proof....is always on the presenter of an argument, that's always how debate works.

You accepted his statement and made your own determination before you lost the argument and started questioning anything.

my initial guess was that all of it was bs, which most anecdotes are.

You liar. Here is your first post on the subject:

Yer offering lousy pay, or else you would attract qualified prospects.

You accepted his statement and passed judgement on it.

 

[jmotivator]

At this firm, you've got Admin assistants. They don't deal with taxes. The "accounting clerks" as the term is being used here go by something like Tax level 1, Tax Level 2 etc, The starting salaries here for all positions mentioned are much higher than you would find elsewhere. They're also competitive and in line with the starting salaries of the other big 3. I agree with you the position naming. I'd make 1/2 of my salary at another company as they'd call my position something else entirely but my duties would be identical.

Right, and a small business auto dealer won't pay as much as a prestigious accounting firm, and wouldn't demand the same pedigree either, regardless of the job. But someone needs to hire the less skilled yet-still-skilled people that the "Big 3" won't hire. Gimme and Sangha going the righteous indignation route on gdgyva was just ignorant fist shaking and they should feel silly for wasting so much time on it.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Right, and a small business auto dealer won't pay as much as a prestigious accounting firm, and wouldn't demand the same pedigree either, regardless of the job. But someone needs to hire the less skilled yet-still-skilled people that the "Big 3" won't hire. Gimme and Sangha going the righteous indignation route on gdgyva was just ignorant fist shaking and they should feel silly for wasting so much time on it.

I worked for a mega law-firm briefly with similar duties(Working for lawyers sucks ass). They could have paid more but the pay was garbage, I needed the gig though. This firm somehow found my resume and recruited me. I jumped at the chance. I'm fortunate and really love this place. That's all I got.

 

[jmotivator]

That was *after* you got called on your BS. Let's look at what you said on PAGE 1, before you got called out

You and Gimme made fools of yourselves rushing into false assumptions so you could shake your fist at him.

You said you were looking for someone with accounting experience, not someone who was starting out.

Again, you absolutely fail at this. His actual INITIAL statement on qualifications was that he wanted someone who could do basic excel work. That should have been a clue for you, but you missed it.

At least, that's where you started out. You only shifted course when you were challenged

To a third party observer it looked more like it took gdgyva by surprise that you and Gimme would choose to be ignorant trolls rather than ask for clarification.

 

[jmotivator]

I worked for a mega law-firm briefly with similar duties(Working for lawyers sucks ass). They could have paid more but the pay was garbage, I needed the gig though. This firm somehow found my resume and recruited me. I jumped at the chance. I'm fortunate and really love this place. That's all I got.

I was working government contract work for headhunter firms for years, had one long term gig that I loved but the office moved to Sioux Falls and I didn't want to move to Sioux Falls. A couple of years ago I was working for an absolutely awful greenfield government Office in DC when they decided they no longer wanted contractors, so ended our employment in favor of government positions. I considered going govie for a while but the absurdity of the Treasury hiring process quickly changed my mind. I ended up jumping onto a full time spot with a private company that was great in all aspects except for pay. They gave me a nice title, and benefits were good and commute was a few miles... the pay was just 20% less than I was used to as a contractor.

Two days before I started my new job I got a call from the HR department of the company that makes the equipment I have been specializing in for the past decade saying that someone in the company had submitted my name as a possible prospect for a full time job with the company. I politely declined as I was loyal to the company that just hired me. The next two days ushered in an unbelievable hard press by that company to hire me, literally a new offer floating in every few hours followed by my increasingly reluctant rejection of the offer. Eventually they made me an offer I couldn't refuse that was 40% above my best paying gig ever and on the second day on the new job I had to resign. It hurt more than I thought it would, but it was the only choice for my family. My boss took it well because I told him the offer and he admitted it was more than he made.

I have less of a title now but I love the job and the pay and the benefits.

The moral of the story: There is no better bargaining chip in compensation negotiations than already having a job.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You accepted his statement and made your own determination before you lost the argument and started questioning anything.

False, I did not "accept" anything, I questioned it from the beginning and said it was bs in my 3rd post.

You liar. Here is your first post on the subject:
You accepted his statement and passed judgement on it.

That isn't acceptance, it is not me believing it as true, and I called as bs in my third post:

I can pull all sorts of numbers outa my butt too! Anecdotal arguments are so easy to win.

I make a gazillion $$$ at my pc every day, contact me if you want in on the secret!

 

[jmotivator]

False, I did not "accept" anything, I questioned it from the beginning and said it was bs in my 3rd post.

Hah, stop lying. Yes, you have to accept his claim before you can claim he is underpaying for the position.

That isn't acceptance, it is not me believing it as true, and I called as bs in my third post:

No, you called it "anecdotal", not bs.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Hah, stop lying. Yes, you have to accept his claim before you can claim he is underpaying for the position.

you keep using that word, if I question a thing, I'm obviously not believing it as true. I accept he said something, but that does not mean I think what he said was true.

No, you called it "anecdotal", not bs.

This:

I make a gazillion $$$ at my pc every day, contact me if you want in on the secret!

....is not an implying of bs?

Any other grasps at straw you care to indulge in?

 

[jmotivator]

you keep using that word, if I question a thing, I'm obviously not believing it as true. I accept he said something, but that does not mean I think what he said was true.

You didn't question it! You declared that he wasn't paying enough.

This:

I make a gazillion $$$ at my pc every day, contact me if you want in on the secret!

....is not an implying of bs?

That is stating an obvious lie, you have no clue whether their claim was a lie because, unlike you claim, it was entirely plausible. Like I said before, if I say that I paid $5 for lunch there is no reason to doubt me. If I say I sold a sandwich for "A gazillion $$$" then there are several reasons to state it is a false claim.

Any other grasps at straw you care to indulge in?

No, I won't be indulging in any more of your straw grasping. It's the weekend and I have better things to do.

 

[sangha]

Again, you absolutely fail at this. His actual INITIAL statement on qualifications was that he wanted someone who could do basic excel work. That should have been a clue for you, but you missed it.

No, his earliest posts (posted over a two day period) clearly state he was looking for an accountant, with an accounting degree and accounting experience to work as a staff accountant and that he believed $35k was adequate for an experienced accountant

but a regular accounting grad from a normal college, in a normal job.....

yeah....35-40k will get them in the door, and then it is up to them where they end up

these werent cpa positions...but good office staff accounting positions

base pay 35-40k to start

i need that person to have actual ACCOUNTING knowledge and experience....

35-40k starting for a basic staff accountant is lousy pay?

 

[sangha]

Any other grasps at straw you care to indulge in?

Yes, he's also grasping for the straw that the OP didn't originally say he was looking for an experienced accountant with an accounting degree even though I've quoted the OP saying the following numerous times

but a regular accounting grad from a normal college, in a normal job.....

yeah....35-40k will get them in the door, and then it is up to them where they end up

these werent cpa positions...but good office staff accounting positions

base pay 35-40k to start

i need that person to have actual ACCOUNTING knowledge and experience....

35-40k starting for a basic staff accountant is lousy pay?

 

[jmotivator]

No, his earliest posts (posted over a two day period) clearly state he was looking for an accountant, with an accounting degree and accounting experience to work as a staff accountant and that he believed $35k was adequate for an experienced accountant

The only statement you made above that doesn't also apply to an accounting clerk is the title "accountant".

So with 4 pieces of initial evidence (name, degree, accounting experience and salary) 3 apply to the job of accountant and 3 apply to the job accounting clerk. Rather than ask for a clarification of which of the two he meant you just assumed "accountant" and went and made an ass of yourself.

Good day sir.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

You didn't question it! You declared that he wasn't paying enough.

Saying something is not as it seems.....is NOT questioning it!

Good grief, complete absurdity.

That is stating an obvious lie, you have no clue whether their claim was a lie because, unlike you claim, it was entirely plausible.

Wait, are you saying that I said his comment was not "plausible"? Is not the bringing up of plausibility....questioning the original claim?

Like I said before, if I say that I paid $5 for lunch there is no reason to doubt me. If I say I sold a sandwich for "A gazillion $$$" then there are several reasons to state it is a false claim.

You are still admitting that I questioned his response, the opposite of "accepting" it.

No, I won't be indulging in any more of your straw grasping. It's the weekend and I have better things to do.

...he says, looking in the mirror.