Need a job....5.8 million job openings

[HenryChinaski]

And an accounting clerk makes $33k on average and often requires an AA degree. You were unable to properly evaluate the entirety of the information given and deduce that the bulk of the information pointed to one position -- accounting clerk -- while the only thing supporting your position was one single word that could easily be confused by someone who isn't an accountant.

You were wrong, you achieved your wrongness through amazing feats of ignorant assumption, and you can't seem to admit it.

They might make $33,000 average at a small mom-and-pop with a few employees. There's no way that's a starting salary at one of the big three accounting firms. That would mean the mail staff make more than the accountants.

 

[DA60]

I didn't claim certain knowledge, did I?

Actually, you did.

You typed: 'And the emp-pop ratio for those with a Bachelor's or higher has dropped mostly to fewer wanting jobs'

When you typed, 'has dropped', then you were making a factual statement, not an estimate or a guess. With respect, you should have typed 'appears to have dropped' or 'seems to have dropped'...not 'has dropped' as there is no way for you to know what the wants of all those involved are. No big whoop.

Come on man, you are the one who goes around correcting everyone on tiny, statistical minutia...I think it only fair that you accept when you make a technical error as well. I would think you would welcome the constructive criticism. I certainly would - provided it was presented to me without undue malice.

However...since the labor force level for age 25+ with a Bachelor's or higher went UP, and at the same time the Participation rate went down...that can only mean that the number of people Not in the Labor Force went up.
And since for those 25+ overall, the level and percent of those not in the labor force who did not want a job went up from April 2015-April 2016 A-38. Persons not in the labor force by desire and availability for work, age, and sex [In thousands] the most likely reason for the participation rate to drop for those 25+ with a degree is that increase.

"Estimates" from a scientific survey are not "guesses." They are reliable approximations within a known margin of error. Adding conditional language for every statement would be burdensome. I would expect that everyone would realize that estimates from a survey are not, of course, 100% accurate and are subject to bias and error (statistical bias, not political) and that my statements on their meaning are naturally conditional, as all scientific statements are.

But you bring up a curious point. You are claiming now that measuring "want" shouldn't be done unless each and every person is asked. But your standard for measuring unemployment, which you claim should replace the current measure, is "If you do not have a job, want to work and are available to work...you are unemployed...period." Does this mean you think that every single person should be asked their job desire every month? That would be....difficult to accomplish.

And the fact that "want" is subjective is the very reason that it is not part of the definition of unemployment and what a person DOES is considered more important. So it seems odd you would champion a change in definition that you seem to acknowledge would be less accurate and more subjective.

I said that you should not claim that you know the wants of people whom you have not asked. If you want to guess what they want...fine. My objection is stating it as a fact.

Exactitude.

And under my 'official unemployment rate' scenario, it would be a guesstimate and presented as such, not as a fact as you did above.

 

[sangha]

Again, you are fixated on that one word

if by "one word" you mean "three posts", yeah I'm fixated on one word.

 

[jmotivator]

Exactly, an anecdote, an unverifiable set of claims.

Which you chose to take a position on anyway.

Your whole argument...is based on an anecdote. The burden of proof is not mine.

Absolutely not. The reverse is actually true. YOU took a position on what gdgyva said, and I argued that there were other interpretations to what he said that made more sense than yours. I was correct.

You continued being wrong because you stubbornly refused to accept that your interpretation was wrong.

So, again, you were wrong.

 

[jmotivator]

if by "one word" you mean "three posts", yeah I'm fixated on one word.

I mean by that one word wherever it was used. You just ignored all the other words in all the other posts.

You then decided to claim that gdgyva claimed that he was the business owner due to more careless reading on your part. Have you apologized to gdgyva for accusing him of lying yet?

 

[jmotivator]

They might make $33,000 average at a small mom-and-pop with a few employees. There's no way that's a starting salary at one of the big three accounting firms. That would mean the mail staff make more than the accountants.

Accounting clerks, not accountants. $33k is the average salary for an accounting clerk in the Washington DC metro area.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Which you chose to take a position on anyway.

Yes, and the position...right from the start, was that his posts....are BS anecdotes.

Absolutely not. The reverse is actually true. YOU took a position on what gdgyva said,

I said they were anecdotes....but go on..

and I argued that there were other interpretations to what he said that made more sense than yours. I was correct.

Um, you cannot claim you were "correct", BECAUSE YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT IS BASED ON HIS ANECDOTE. WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE WHOLE FRIGGING ARGUMENT....WHO HE SOUGHT, WHO HE HIRED, WHAT HE PAID.....IS ALL HIS STORY, HIS PERSONAL ANECDOTE...THAT NO ONE CAN VERIFY.

You continued being wrong because you stubbornly refused to accept that your interpretation was wrong.

Oh, so what is important....is who has the best "interpretation"...of an anecdote. Good grief.

So, again, you were wrong.

How can you know? How can you know when you have no idea what is the truth?

I have a box....tell me what is in the box.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

I mean by that one word wherever it was used. You just ignored all the other words in all the other posts.

You then decided to claim that gdgyva claimed that he was the business owner due to more careless reading on your part. Have you apologized to gdgyva for accusing him of lying yet?

Has the op proven any of what he said?

 

[jmotivator]

Yes, and the position...right from the start, was that his posts....are BS anecdotes.

Again, LOL! You make an assertion about what gdgyva is talking about, you make too many assumptions, I point that out, I offer an alternative interpretation and I am correct.

You can't deal with that.

I said they were anecdotes....but go on.. Um, you cannot claim you were "correct", BECAUSE YOUR WHOLE ARGUMENT IS BASED ON HIS ANECDOTE. WHY DO YOU HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THAT THE WHOLE FRIGGING ARGUMENT....WHO HE SOUGHT, WHO HE HIRED, WHAT HE PAID.....IS ALL HIS STORY, HIS PERSONAL ANECDOTE...THAT NO ONE CAN VERIFY.

You were wrong. You need to get over it. If you decide to make a point based on the information given you can't later claim there was not enough information... all you are doing at that point is admitting that you were making an ignorant argument... which you were... and you were wrong, and your caps lock is broken.

Oh, so what is important....is who has the best "interpretation"...of an anecdote. Good grief.

What is most important is that you were wrong.

How can you know? How can you know when you have no idea what is the truth?

It's like a puzzle of a lighthouse. If I piece it together and state that it is a picture of a lighthouse and you wad it together with duct tape and claim it is a picture of a basketball it really doesn't matter if the lighthouse ever existed, you are still wrong.

I have a box....tell me what is in the box.

I'll need more information before I venture a guess. See how easy that was?

 

[HenryChinaski]

Accounting clerks, not accountants. $33k is the average salary for an accounting clerk in the Washington DC metro area.

The starting salary here for accounting clerks(they don't call them that here) is way higher. The guys who work in the mailroom start out at about 36 to 38.

 

[jmotivator]

Has the op proven any of what he said?

He doesn't need to. He stated a position he was hiring for whose qualifications met the description of an accounting clerk at a salary a bit above the going rate for that position in his area. There is nothing controversial about this claim. You simply try to make it controversial by assume a bunch of information you were not given and building a purely ignorant counter argument.

 

[jmotivator]

The starting salary here for accounting clerks(they don't call them that here) is way higher. The guys who work in the mailroom start out at about 36 to 38.

Well that's great. If you pay way more than $35-40k for a data entry person then good for you. Do you require more than an associates degree for the position? How large is your company? How deep are its pockets?

Warren Buffet pays his secretary $200,000, that doesn't mean that the going rate for a secretary is $200,000.

Details, details.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Again, LOL! You make an assertion about what gdgyva is talking about, you make too many assumptions, I point that out, I offer an alternative interpretation and I am correct.You can't deal with that.

Again, you can't make a claim on being correct....when you cannot know. You cannot know that the story told is correct, you cannot verify it.

You were wrong. You need to get over it.

Again, prove I am wrong, you cannot, you are relying on information that cannot be verified.

If you decide to make a point based on the information given you can't later claim there was not enough information... all you are doing at that point is admitting that you were making an ignorant argument... which you were... and you were wrong, and your caps lock is broken.

Again, the basic fact escapes you, you are also basing your argument on a story, it is not "information", it is a story, a tale, unverifiable. You are ignorant too, you cannot know that any of what was told to us by the OP is true, is fact.

What is most important is that you were wrong.

You cannot prove I am wrong, you cannot verify the facts, there are no facts, there are stories, tale and assertions.

It's like a puzzle of a lighthouse. If I piece it together and state that it is a picture of a lighthouse and you wad it together with duct tape and claim it is a picture of a basketball it really doesn't matter if the lighthouse ever existed, you are still wrong.

A picture of something...is not the thing. I can photoshop a lighthouse in the parking lot of a dealership and say "see, this exists", it does not me it is true, or that what i claim exists, the basis is not proven.

I'll need more information before I venture a guess. See how easy that was?

But...there you are....you are waiting for more "info" to determine validity....yet you want to claim validity for a story from the OP......it is all about belief....not knowing. You are operating on faith based argument. The info I want....is something I can independently verify. We won't be able to do that without the OP providing inside info. He would have to link to his job posting, a w2 of those he has hired in the past, the levels of education of the individuals. That is not going to happen.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

He doesn't need to. He stated a position he was hiring for whose qualifications met the description of an accounting clerk at a salary a bit above the going rate for that position in his area. There is nothing controversial about this claim. You simply try to make it controversial by assume a bunch of information you were not given and building a purely ignorant counter argument.

Oh, if there is going to be claims of me being wrong, then yes, the burden of proof is on the OP. He will not prove any of it has happened.

 

[jaeger19]

This, too, lol. Last week, I went through something like....200 online applications. I came out with 20 that were worthy of wasting actual paper on...of that, NONE were decent. Can't spell your name, or read the instructions to properly fill out an online resume? Keep on walking. Can't seem to list a phone number that is either A, in service, or B, has a voice mail that is set up? Keep on walking. Can find something other that saggy jeans to wear to the interview? I'll stop you at the door and send you on your way. Sorry, but I just don't have the time to waste. Mind you, these applications were for MANAGEMENT positions. Retail management, sure...but still. Get a pair of khakis, at least. SOMETHING.

Not sure.. but this could be a result of TANF and unemployment.

We get a lot of resumes as well... from people unqualified for positions... totally unqualified. Absurdly unqualified. Being the curious person I am, I had are HR department call some of these folks to see what was up. Many of the absurd (my term.. I mean apply for a management position with a GED? And no management experience to boot?) applications were people trying to meet the requirements for TANF or for unemployment.

In fact.. in one facility.. we saw a spike when the local manufacturing company would go into their "layoff" period.. when they would lay off workers.. and the workers knew full well they would be eventually hired back.. yet they needed to apply for positions so that they could get their unemployment until the company started hiring again.

 

[sangha]

I mean by that one word wherever it was used.

He didn't just substitute one word. He clearly described someone who was qualified as an accountant with an accounting degree and accounting experience. And when he was challenged, he doubled-down on his lie by insisting that $35K was a decent salary for an accountant

 

[sangha]

He stated a position he was hiring for whose qualifications met the description of an accounting clerk

You are lying. The description he gave (an accountant with an accounting degree and accounting experience) is not the description of an accounting clerk.

It describes an accountant

 

[sangha]

Not sure.. but this could be a result of TANF and unemployment.

We get a lot of resumes as well... from people unqualified for positions... totally unqualified. Absurdly unqualified. Being the curious person I am, I had are HR department call some of these folks to see what was up. Many of the absurd (my term.. I mean apply for a management position with a GED? And no management experience to boot?) applications were people trying to meet the requirements for TANF or for unemployment.

In fact.. in one facility.. we saw a spike when the local manufacturing company would go into their "layoff" period.. when they would lay off workers.. and the workers knew full well they would be eventually hired back.. yet they needed to apply for positions so that they could get their unemployment until the company started hiring again.

I don't believe that either TANF or UI accept online applications, or phone calls, sufficient to satisfy their requirement that recipients look for work. AFAIK, they require going to businesses and asking face to face though that may be different in some state somewhere

 

[jaeger19]

I don't believe that either TANF or UI accept online applications, or phone calls, sufficient to satisfy their requirement that recipients look for work. AFAIK, they require going to businesses and asking face to face though that may be different in some state somewhere

I believe some states caseworkers will accept online applications as job search. Which would make sense since some businesses won't accept a typed application, or even emailed but only online applications.

And yes its different state to state... here is texas on work search logs for unemployment:

Work Search Log

You can download a work search log or create your own log. If you create your own log, it must include the same information that is on our version.
•Work Search LogPDF This form is for regular unemployment benefits.

Document your activities by including specific details about the work search contact, especially telephone numbers with area codes. Be sure to include:
•Date of the work search activity
•What you did (for example: searched for work at a Workforce Solutions office, applied online for a job, participated in a job fair, applied in person for an opening)
•Type of job you are seeking
•Employer names, addresses and phone numbers including area codes
•Name of the person you contacted, if applicable, and the method of contact (for example: mail, e-mail, fax, phone)
•Result of your activity (for example: submitted job application, sent a résumé, interviewed, hired, not hired, no reply, other)

 

[beerftw]

That is called paying your dues which people don't want to do any more.

I worked at a dealership for two years and I considered it my learning experience.

I learned how each department worked so I could walk in to any other dealership and get a job.

Well it depends on what you call paying dues, no one should start out at top dollar, it is usually around 9-15 per flag hour depending on your area for entry level.

My big issue is manufacturor warranty time, which in recent years has been too low, to even zero. For example it pays around 8 hours to randr a transmission out of a chevy impala ss with a v8, last I checked the warranty rate was zero, meaning the techs who got it had to do the work for free. Other things that might pay 6-8 hours might pay 1.5 under warranty rate.

If a dealership tosses all their warranty work on the new guys, they scare them away for good, since alot of dealerships do alot of warranty work for the manufacturer. It is bad enough for some things that techs getting only warranty work could flag 50-60 hours in a week, but only get paid 9 to 15, because the manufacturor set it so low. Toyota seems to be the best at warranty work, as most of their rates are 66-75% of the paying job rate.

 

[Carjosse]

What?

$35K American is $44,800 Canadian ($3,733/month).

There are TONS of apartments in Montreal that one could easily afford with that kind of money. I am familiar with Montreal (I lived there for a while at the Alexis Nihon). The rents are not that expensive.

Alexis Nihon Atwater | Apartments & Condos for Sale or Rent in City of Montréal | Kijiji Classifieds

I mean in Canadian dollars and in a city like Toronto, where more of the jobs actually are. Montreal is fairly cheap.

 

[DA60]

I mean in Canadian dollars and in a city like Toronto, where more of the jobs actually are. Montreal is fairly cheap.

Fair enough.

I still think you could afford to live in Toronto on $3,000 Canadian per month...especially if you forgo a car and just take the TTC/GO train/cabs OR share an apartment.

 

[Carjosse]

Fair enough.

I still think you could afford to live in Toronto on $3,000 Canadian per month...especially if you forgo a car and just take the TTC/GO train/cabs OR share an apartment.

I will let you know in 2 years when I will probably have to, or Vancouver. Though it looks like I will probably be having to work for four months in Toronto on a much lower salary for an internship.

 

[jmotivator]

Oh, if there is going to be claims of me being wrong, then yes, the burden of proof is on the OP. He will not prove any of it has happened.

Nope. You made a guess that is obviously wrong. He's not underpaying an Accountant, he is fairly paying an accounting clerk. If your only defense is that the position may not exist at all then your initial guess is still wrong. :lamo

 

[jmotivator]

He didn't just substitute one word. He clearly described someone who was qualified as an accountant with an accounting degree and accounting experience. And when he was challenged, he doubled-down on his lie by insisting that $35K was a decent salary for an accountant

No he did not! He described a data entry level member of the accounting team with an associate's degree in accounting at a salary level equal to an accounting clerk. He described an accounting clerk!

You are fixated on the one word, and making the incorrect assumption that his degree requirement meant a 4 year degree. This is obviously not true as early on he stated that he was considering a candidate with a 2 year degree. You made bad assumption after bad assumption and drew the wrong conclusion.